Discussion:
Godfather John Bulkley 1472
(too old to reply)
paul bulkley
2007-03-13 15:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Curious event is described in Inquisition Post Mortem
#919 1493 offering evidence of the baptism of William
Temse:

RE: William Temse (s) (h) Robert Temse:

Wiltshire: He was born at Netherhavyn and baptised in
the parish church there on the Feast of St Lucy The
Virgin 13-Dec-11 Edw IV (1472)

John Bulkeley (A juror age 50 and more), William
Cosen, and Joan Bulcley widow being gossips. The
godfathers disputed which of them should give the
child his own name, and William Cosen to have the
naming agreed to give the said John Bulkley a gallon
of wine which he paid;

And because there was no wine in Netherhavyn, Richard
Couchyn (A Juror age 52 and more), rode a black horse
to Ambresbury to fetch it, was thrown on his way back,
and a jug full, or nigh half a gallon, was spilt etc.

His lands of inheritance were, by grant from King
Edward IV in the custody of John Boteler.

The name of Bulkley being spelt three different ways
within a short document is a reminder of the problem
of identifying individuals with certainty.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley



____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
John Brandon
2007-03-13 16:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Is Bulkley the only name you are interested in researching?

Can you trace your line back to this time period?

Just wondering.
W***@aol.com
2007-03-13 17:15:23 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 3/13/2007 9:03:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
***@yahoo.com writes:

And because there was no wine in Netherhavyn, Richard
Couchyn (A Juror age 52 and more), rode a black horse
to Ambresbury to fetch it, was thrown on his way back,
and a jug full, or nigh half a gallon, was spilt etc.



Or perhaps he just drank the wine on the way back ;)
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
Alan R Grey
2007-03-13 19:01:00 UTC
Permalink
paul bulkley wrote:

<deletion>
Post by paul bulkley
John Bulkeley (A juror age 50 and more), William
Cosen, and Joan Bulcley widow being gossips. The
godfathers disputed which of them should give the
child his own name, and William Cosen to have the
naming agreed to give the said John Bulkley a gallon
of wine which he paid;
<deletion>
Post by paul bulkley
The name of Bulkley being spelt three different ways
within a short document is a reminder of the problem
of identifying individuals with certainty.
It is true that variable spelling is an ever-present "problem" in
old/ancient documents. Most names from medieval times I've seen have
anywhere from 3 or so to any number of different spellings (even Grey
can be Greye, Gray and Graye etc). Bulkley must have a rather large
number of spellings. Our obsession with "correct" spelling is a recent
concept in the greater scheme of things. In the past, all that really
mattered was the broad pattern of consonants, vowel sounds and
syllables, the key markers of pronunciation. Vowels are often
interchangeable, depending on accent, and there are common consonant
pairs that are also interchangeable, such as [c-k], [b-p], [f-v] etc.
These things ought not to create an issue for us, any more than it
created an issue for them. If one accepts interchangeability and
addition (within reason), plays close attention to abbreviation marks,
and is careful in Latin-English transpositions, then there ought to be
few problems. In this case, while it is interesting that the name is
spelled three different ways in one document, sometimes I think that is
almost the norm, and the names here are clearly spelled "identically"
(for the time). Thus we have: [Bul] [c/k] [ley] ... a very precise
sequence and "unquestionably" the same name.

Alan R Grey
m***@btinternet.com
2007-03-13 19:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul bulkley
Curious event is described in Inquisition Post Mortem
#919 1493 offering evidence of the baptism of William
Wiltshire: He was born at Netherhavyn and baptised in
the parish church there on the Feast of St Lucy The
Virgin 13-Dec-11 Edw IV (1472)
13 December 11 Edward IV was 1471.
Yvonne Purdy
2007-03-13 21:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,

You wrote:

From: paul bulkley [mailto:***@yahoo.com]
Sent: 13 March 2007 15:56
To: gen-medieval-***@rootsweb.com
Subject: Godfather John Bulkley 1472
John Bulkeley (A juror age 50 and more), William
Cosen, and Joan Bulcley widow being gossips.
<

I'm interested in the term 'gossip'. Do you know how old it is, and what is
it's meaning(s)? I have a 1608 will with the term, but thought it meant
friend/confidant of the testator, but from your context, it looks as 'tho it
could also mean godparent?

I would appreciate any input.

Regards, Yvonne
wjhonson
2007-03-13 21:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yvonne Purdy
Hi Paul,
I'm interested in the term 'gossip'. Do you know how old it is, and what is
it's meaning(s)? I have a 1608 will with the term, but thought it meant
friend/confidant of the testator, but from your context, it looks as 'tho it
could also mean godparent?
I would appreciate any input.
Regards, Yvonne
Yes Yvonne go here
http://www.google.com/search?e=LabratControl&hl=en&rlz=1T4GFRC_enUS207US208&q=gossip%3Dgodparent

and you'll get a lot of informatin on the word "gossip" meaning
godparent

Will Johnson
Nathaniel Taylor
2007-03-14 00:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yvonne Purdy
Hi Paul,
Sent: 13 March 2007 15:56
Subject: Godfather John Bulkley 1472
John Bulkeley (A juror age 50 and more), William
Cosen, and Joan Bulcley widow being gossips.
<
I'm interested in the term 'gossip'. Do you know how old it is, and what is
it's meaning(s)? I have a 1608 will with the term, but thought it meant
friend/confidant of the testator, but from your context, it looks as 'tho it
could also mean godparent?
Well, 'gossip' meant, in the 17th century (to paraphrase the first
definition in the OED), 'one with whom one had contracted affinity
through sponsorship at baptism', which could be used for godparent and
godchild, but could also be used for godparent and birth-parent of
godchild. This was important in canon law, since people linked in such
a way could not subsequently marry.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
Yvonne Purdy
2007-03-14 16:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Will,

Many thanks for your reply and help. That rather changes things for me!
Kind regards,
Yvonne
Post by Yvonne Purdy
Hi Paul,
I'm interested in the term 'gossip'. Do you know how old it is, and what
is
Post by Yvonne Purdy
it's meaning(s)? I have a 1608 will with the term, but thought it meant
friend/confidant of the testator, but from your context, it looks as 'tho
it
Post by Yvonne Purdy
could also mean godparent?
I would appreciate any input.
Regards, Yvonne
From: wjhonson [mailto:***@aol.com]
Sent: 13 March 2007 21:41
To: gen-***@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Godfather John Bulkley 1472

Yes Yvonne go here
http://www.google.com/search?e=LabratControl&hl=en&rlz=1T4GFRC_enUS207US208&
q=gossip%3Dgodparent

and you'll get a lot of informatin on the word "gossip" meaning
godparent

Will Johnson
<<
Yvonne Purdy
2007-03-14 16:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nat,

Thank you for your reply, and helpful description. Much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Yvonne
Post by Yvonne Purdy
Hi Paul,
Sent: 13 March 2007 15:56
Subject: Godfather John Bulkley 1472
John Bulkeley (A juror age 50 and more), William
Cosen, and Joan Bulcley widow being gossips.
<
I'm interested in the term 'gossip'. Do you know how old it is, and what
is
Post by Yvonne Purdy
it's meaning(s)? I have a 1608 will with the term, but thought it meant
friend/confidant of the testator, but from your context, it looks as 'tho
it
Post by Yvonne Purdy
could also mean godparent?
From: Nathaniel Taylor [mailto:***@earthlink.net]
Sent: 14 March 2007 00:18
To: gen-***@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Godfather John Bulkley 1472

Well, 'gossip' meant, in the 17th century (to paraphrase the first
definition in the OED), 'one with whom one had contracted affinity
through sponsorship at baptism', which could be used for godparent and
godchild, but could also be used for godparent and birth-parent of
godchild. This was important in canon law, since people linked in such
a way could not subsequently marry.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
<<

Loading...