Dalmahoy of that ILk, linked to Heriot of Trabroun and Cockburn of Ormiston

[j***@iquest.net]

Following the series of messages on the Dalmahoys of that Ilk, which
were posted to this list last month, and some kind assistance,
off-list, from one of the posters in that discussion, I am now
researching this cluster of families since it seems quite probable
that I can count them among my ancestors. I am not, however, that
familiar with Scottish history, etc., so I?ve been floundering around
a bit and thought that I?d see if anyone on the list might be able to
point me in the right direction before I waste too much time going in
circles.

Specifically, I?m trying to sort out the maternal ancestry of the
Helen Dalmahoy (d. 1641), wife first of John Hamilton of Haggs and
second of AlexanderKnox of Silvieland, who was at the heart of those
posts. It?s clear now that she was among the children of Alexander
Dalmahoy (d aft. 1615) of that Ilk and his second wife Agnes Heriot.
Agnes Heriot?s ancestry, however, is something of a muddle as far as I
can tell.

According to Collections and Notes Historical and Genealogical
Regarding the Heriots of Trabroun (1878), Agnes Heriot, second wife of
Alexander Dalmahoy of that Ilk (m. ca. 1571), was the daughter of
James Heriot (d. 1580) of Trabroun and his wife Janet Cockburn. In a
query published in the Scottish Historical Review, vol. 4 new series
(1907) James Heriot of Trabroun (d. 1580) is said to have been
married first to Janet Cockburn of the Ormiston family and second to
Helen Cockburn. However, in The House of Cockburn of that Ilk and the
Cadets Thereof (1888), Helen Cockburn of Ormiston, daughter of
William Cockburn of Ormiston and Janet Somerville, was married to
James Heriot by 17 April 1548 and no Janet Cockburn/James Heriot
marriage is mentioned at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to which Cockburn (Helen, or
Janet) might be the mother of Agnes Heriot?

Additionally, the Cockburn book indicates that William Cockburn and
Janet Somerville were related to one another through the Hepburn
family, but doesn?t explain the connection. William Cockburn?s mother
was Margaret Hepburn, according to the same book, but as the parents
of neither Margaret Hepburn nor Janet Somerville are given the
connection is obscure at best. Any suggestions on solving this puzzle
will also be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Jeff Duvall

***@iquest.net
***@iupui.edu


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[Henry Soszynski]

Post by j***@iquest.net
Following the series of messages on the Dalmahoys of that Ilk, which
were posted to this list last month, and some kind assistance,
off-list, from one of the posters in that discussion, I am now
researching this cluster of families since it seems quite probable
that I can count them among my ancestors. I am not, however, that
familiar with Scottish history, etc., so I?ve been floundering around
a bit and thought that I?d see if anyone on the list might be able to
point me in the right direction before I waste too much time going in
circles.
Specifically, I?m trying to sort out the maternal ancestry of the
Helen Dalmahoy (d. 1641), wife first of John Hamilton of Haggs and
second of AlexanderKnox of Silvieland, who was at the heart of those
posts. It?s clear now that she was among the children of Alexander
Dalmahoy (d aft. 1615) of that Ilk and his second wife Agnes Heriot.
Agnes Heriot?s ancestry, however, is something of a muddle as far as I
can tell.
According to Collections and Notes Historical and Genealogical
Regarding the Heriots of Trabroun (1878), Agnes Heriot, second wife of
Alexander Dalmahoy of that Ilk (m. ca. 1571), was the daughter of
James Heriot (d. 1580) of Trabroun and his wife Janet Cockburn. In a
query published in the Scottish Historical Review, vol. 4 new series
(1907) James Heriot of Trabroun (d. 1580) is said to have been
married first to Janet Cockburn of the Ormiston family and second to
Helen Cockburn. However, in The House of Cockburn of that Ilk and the
Cadets Thereof (1888), Helen Cockburn of Ormiston, daughter of
William Cockburn of Ormiston and Janet Somerville, was married to
James Heriot by 17 April 1548 and no Janet Cockburn/James Heriot
marriage is mentioned at all.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to which Cockburn (Helen, or
Janet) might be the mother of Agnes Heriot?
Additionally, the Cockburn book indicates that William Cockburn and
Janet Somerville were related to one another through the Hepburn
family, but doesn?t explain the connection. William Cockburn?s mother
was Margaret Hepburn, according to the same book, but as the parents
of neither Margaret Hepburn nor Janet Somerville are given the
connection is obscure at best. Any suggestions on solving this puzzle
will also be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Jeff Duvall

Just to muddy the waters still further, I have James' wives as Janet
Cockburn and Helen Swinton. There are twelve children listed but no
certainty as to who their mothers were. Janet's parentage is identical
to that given by you for Helen above.

I have no details on Janet Somerville's ancestry.
The following website may be of interest, but there are many errors.
http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getperson.php?personID=I32026&tree=CC

Cheers.
Henry Soszynski

[Steve Wilson]

I show eleven children of James Heriot of Trabroun (d. 1560) by Janet Cockburn of Ormiston, and three children by Helen Swinton of that Ilk.
Helen Swinton remarried to Edward Henderson or Henryson, having two children by him:

* Sir Thomas Henderson or Henryson of Chesters, d. 1638, m. (1) to Margaret Hay of Kennet, m. (2) to Rebecca Weir of Chesters
* Elizabeth Henderson or Henryson, m. 1584 to her first cousin John Nicolson of Dryden or Lasswade (who d. 1605, son of James Nicolson and Janet Swinton of that Ilk)

A memorial inscription on a monument in the Greyfriars Churchyard, Edinburgh, erected 26 Sep 1636 by Sir Thomas Henryson, gives all of the children of Helen Swinton (http://books.google.com/books?id=YIsUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA21&dq=%22xxv.+henryson%27s+monument%22):

"And to the memory of Mr Edward Henryson, Doctor of the Civil and Canon Law, his most loving father, senator and one of the judges of consistorie of Edinburgh; and of Dame Helen Swintoun his dearest mother; and of three most uterine sisters--Dame Agnes, and of her most worthy husband Sir James Foulis, Baron of Colintoun; Dame Helen, and her most renouned husband, Mr Thomas Craig of Riccartoun, most famous lawyer; of Sir Lodovick Craig of Riccartoun, Knight, and most honourable senator; Jean and of husband, John Lawrie, baillie of Edinburgh; of one sister german, Elizabeth Henryson, and her notable husband John Nicolson of Dryden, most eloquent advocate and judge of the said consistorie."

Three uterine sisters of Sir Thomas Henryson, daughters of Helen Swinton and James Heriot of Trabroun, are named:

* Agnes Heriot, wife of Sir James Foulis of Colinton
* Helen Heriot, wife of Sir Thomas Craig of Riccarton and mother of Sir Lewis or Ludovick Craig of Riccarton
* Jean Heriot, wife of John Laurie, bailie of Edinburgh

As Agnes Heriot, wife of Sir James Foulis, and Helen Heriot, wife of Sir Thomas Craig, are children of James Heriot's second marriage, Agnes Heriot, wife of Alexander Dalmahoy, and Helen Heriot, wife of George Home, must have belonged to his first marriage with Janet Cockburn of Ormiston, despite what may appear in certain secondary sources.

My reconstruction of the family of James Heriot of Trabroun follows. I'll try to provide links to relevant sources in a separate message. Much of my information comes from a book on the Heriots which I'm still tracking down at the moment.
_ _ _ _ _

Children of James Heriot of Trabroun by first wife, Janet Cockburn of Ormiston:

1) James Heriot of Trabroun, b. ca. 1533, d. 4 Jun 1618, m. to Isobel Maitland of Lethington (b. ca. 1540, d. 24 Dec 1621)

2) Margaret Heriot, b. ca. 1535, m. bef. 14 Oct 1552 to Thomas Fawside of that Ilk (b. ca. 1530, d. aft. 1585)

3) Andrew Heriot of Burnturk, b. ca. 1537, d. bet. 5 Jun 1587 and 13 Feb 1588 in Edinburgh

4) Elizabeth Heriot, b. ca. 1539, m. bet. 23 Jun and 28 Oct 1558 to Thomas Hamilton of Prestfield (d. bef. 1612)

5) Alexander Heriot, b. ca. 1541, d. aft. 1565

6) Peter Heriot of Leith, b. ca. 1543, d. 29 Aug 1587 in Leith

7) George Heriot of Collelaw, b. ca. 1545, d. aft. 1602

8) Helen Heriot, b. ca. 1547, m. bef. 1580 to George Home of Gullane

9) Alison Heriot, b. ca. 1549, m. (1) 1571 to William Pringle of Torwoodlee (d. 1581), m. (2) aft. 1581 to David or John Renton of Baillie

10) Janet Heriot, b. ca. 1551, m. to John Borthwick of Ballincieff

11) Agnes Heriot, b. ca. 1554, m. bef. 10 Jul 1579 to Alexander Dalmahoy of that Ilk (b. ca. 1550, d. ca. 28 Aug 1617)

Children of James Heriot of Trabroun by second wife, Helen Swinton of Swinton:

12) Agnes Heriot, b. ca. 1556, m. to Sir James Foulis of Colinton, d. 5 Aug 1593

13) Helen Heriot, b. ca. 1558, m. (1) bef. 1578 to Sir Thomas Craig of Riccarton (b. ca. 1538, d. 26 Feb 1608), m. (2) Sir John Berswick of Arnot, Provost of Edinburgh (d. 24 May 1616)

14) Jean Heriot, b. ca. 1560, m. John Laurie, bailie of Edinburgh

[Steve Wilson]

The book on the Heriots is 'Historical and Genealogical Notes on the Heriots of Trabroun' (which can be accessed here: https://archive.org/stream/collectionsnotes00ball#page/19/mode/2up).

One issue I now see is that James Heriot of Trabroun, the father of this family, died 4 Oct 1580, not 1560, as I had previously stated (his will is dated 11 Aug 1580 and recorded 27 Jun 1581).

Edward Henryson, second husband of Helen Swinton (d. 1584), died 29 Sep 1585, and the chronologies of his two children by her suggest DOBs for them in the early- to mid-1560s.

Since Sir Thomas Henryson names the three Heriot girls as uterine sisters, and their father is known to have died in 1580, and their chronologies make DOBs of the mid- to late-1550s likely, it would seem that Helen Swinton must have married James Heriot first and Edward Henryson second. This would suggest that James Heriot and Helen Swinton were likely divorced at some point.

Regardless, these marriages certainly warrant further investigation.

[Steve Wilson]

It seems Helen Swinton's first husband was not James Heriot of Trabroun (a mistake which appears in many secondary sources), but Robert Heriot of Lymphoy (http://books.google.com/books?id=f7JCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=%22helen%20heriot%22&f=false). Therefore, all chronoligcal difficulties with her two marriages are now resolved.

However, it does seems that James Heriot of Trabroun was indeed married to another Helen: Helen Cockburn of Ormiston (https://archive.org/stream/houseofcockburno00cockuoft#page/144/mode/2up). They are noted as spouses on 17 Apr 1548 (James Heriot's father, also named James, d. in 1522, so the grant must refer to the son).

Whether Helen Cockburn was his first wife or his only wife (and one and the same with "Janet" Cockburn) remains to be seen.

This Helen Cockburn was the daughter of William Cockburn of Ormiston and Janet Somerville of that Ilk, so it's possible that her given name has been confused with that of her mother in secondary sources. Alternatively, Janet Cockburn, if she existed, may have been a sister or cousin, though I have yet to find any contemporary documentation of the name Janet.

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Steve Wilson
It seems Helen Swinton's first husband was not James Heriot of Trabroun (a mistake which appears in many secondary sources), but Robert Heriot of Lymphoy (http://books.google.com/books?id=f7JCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=%22helen%20heriot%22&f=false). Therefore, all chronoligcal difficulties with her two marriages are now resolved.
However, it does seems that James Heriot of Trabroun was indeed married to another Helen: Helen Cockburn of Ormiston (https://archive.org/stream/houseofcockburno00cockuoft#page/144/mode/2up). They are noted as spouses on 17 Apr 1548 (James Heriot's father, also named James, d. in 1522, so the grant must refer to the son).
Whether Helen Cockburn was his first wife or his only wife (and one and the same with "Janet" Cockburn) remains to be seen.
This Helen Cockburn was the daughter of William Cockburn of Ormiston and Janet Somerville of that Ilk, so it's possible that her given name has been confused with that of her mother in secondary sources. Alternatively, Janet Cockburn, if she existed, may have been a sister or cousin, though I have yet to find any contemporary documentation of the name Janet.

Yes, the marriage of Helen Swinton and Robert Heriot of Lymphoy [or Lumphoy] is mentioned in the ODNB biography of their son-in-law [Sir] Thomas Craig of Riccarton, and also in a work on the Swintons of that Ilk - see pp. 44-5 here:
https://familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=166994

The marriage is also mentioned in the query in vol. 4 of the Scottish Historical Review that Jeff Duvall cited earlier in this thread. A reply to that query appears in vol. 6 of SHR, giving some information on the possible parentage of Robert Heriot of Lymphoy.

Interestingly Helen Swinton is an ancestor of Princess Diana by both of her two husbands Robert Heriot of Lymphoy (through the Foulis son-in-law) and Sir Edward Henryson.

I haven't yet had time to check - does the Heriot source that you cited earlier provide support for ALL of the children of James Heriot of Trabroun (d. 1580), or are other sources required for some of them?

[Steve Wilson]

Yes, all children of James Heriot of Trabroun (d. 1518) are mentioned in the Heriot book, with the (incorrect) addition of a second Helen Heriot married to Sir Thomas Craig of Riccarton (who was actually the daughter of Robert Heriot of Lymphoy and Helen Swinton).

The only spouse mentioned is the as-yet-unattested Janet Cockburn, inclining me to believe that his only spouse was in fact Helen, not Janet, Cockburn.

More details for many of these children can be found in other primary sources (particularly the Register of the Great Seal, which I'm still in the process of reviewing).