Male line relationship of Henry VII of England and the Griffiths

[J***@aol.com]

Dear Fellow Listers,
The Relationship between the Tudors and the
Griffiths seems to come down to Ednyfed Fychan d 1246 and his wife Gwenllian
ferch Rhys ap Gruffydd ap Rhys ap Tudor Mawr who had at least Goronwy d 1268
father of Tudor Hen d 1311, father of Goronwy d 1331, father of Tudor Fychan d
1367, father of Maredudd, father of Owen Tudor d 1461, father of Edmund Tudor d
1456, father of Henry VII; and a half ? brother Tudor who had a son Heilin,
father of Gruffydd, father of that Rhys I ap Gruffydd / Griffith who married
Joan Somerville. so it appears that Rhys I Griffith was a 3rd cousin to Tudor
Fychan, Henry VII`s 2nd great grandfather for whatever that`s worth. My Source
for Henry VII`s line to Ednyfed Fychan is Kings and Queens of Britain by
David Williamson, for that of Rhys Griffith, websites at rootsweb.com
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

[m***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by J***@aol.com
Dear Fellow Listers,
The Relationship between the Tudors and the
Griffiths seems to come down to Ednyfed Fychan d 1246 and his wife Gwenllian
ferch Rhys ap Gruffydd ap Rhys ap Tudor Mawr who had at least Goronwy d 1268
father of Tudor Hen d 1311, father of Goronwy d 1331, father of Tudor Fychan d
1367, father of Maredudd, father of Owen Tudor d 1461, father of Edmund Tudor d
1456, father of Henry VII; and a half ? brother Tudor who had a son Heilin,
father of Gruffydd, father of that Rhys I ap Gruffydd / Griffith who married
Joan Somerville. so it appears that Rhys I Griffith was a 3rd cousin to Tudor
Fychan, Henry VII`s 2nd great grandfather for whatever that`s worth. My Source
for Henry VII`s line to Ednyfed Fychan is Kings and Queens of Britain by
David Williamson, for that of Rhys Griffith, websites at rootsweb.com
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Dear James,

the Griffiths derived from Gruffudd ap Heilin ap Tudur are those of
Penrhyn, Plas Newydd etc. in North Wales. The Griffith of Wychnor
descent from Ednyfed Fychan goes: Ednyfed Fychan- Gruffudd- Sir Hywel-
Gruffudd- Sir Rhys Hen ap Gruffudd (d1356, m Joan Somerville). However,
his relationship is still 3rd cousin to Sir Tudur Fychan as you state.

Matthew

[J***@aol.com]

Dear Matthew,
Thank You for the correction. In addition to Gruffydd
ap Ednyfed Fychan being a son of Gwenllian ferch Rhys (daughter of the Lord
Rhys d 1197 who was one of the primary rulers of Wales previous to Llewelyn Fawr)
their son Gruffydd o Henglawdd was forced to flee to Ireland because
Llewelyn`s wife Joan of England took a dislike to him. He was married to Gwenllian
ferch Hywel ap Traehearn of Brecknock. She was the mother of his son Sir Howell
Gruffydd who married Tanghost ferch Hywel ap Daffydd Llwyd whose sonwas named
Gruffydd ap Howell (all this from Brian Tompsett`s website. He also says Sir
Howell had a son Gruffydd Llwyd who married Gwenllian verch Conan. He gives him
a son Ievan Llwyd and Gruffydd ap Howell a son Robert of Howell of Emral which
I thought belonged to the Puleston family or was that after this?

Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

[m***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by J***@aol.com
Dear Matthew,
Thank You for the correction. In addition to Gruffydd
ap Ednyfed Fychan being a son of Gwenllian ferch Rhys (daughter of the Lord
Rhys d 1197 who was one of the primary rulers of Wales previous to Llewelyn Fawr)
their son Gruffydd o Henglawdd was forced to flee to Ireland because
Llewelyn`s wife Joan of England took a dislike to him. He was married to Gwenllian
ferch Hywel ap Traehearn of Brecknock. She was the mother of his son Sir Howell
Gruffydd who married Tanghost ferch Hywel ap Daffydd Llwyd whose sonwas named
Gruffydd ap Howell (all this from Brian Tompsett`s website. He also says Sir
Howell had a son Gruffydd Llwyd who married Gwenllian verch Conan. He gives him
a son Ievan Llwyd and Gruffydd ap Howell a son Robert of Howell of Emral which
I thought belonged to the Puleston family or was that after this?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Dear James,

Most of that agrees with Bartrum etc. except for spelling variations,
but I understand the Gruffudd Llwyd who married Gwenllian ferch Cynan
to be son of Rhys ap Gruffudd, a brother or half-brother of Sir Hywel,
so nephew -not son- to the latter. This Sir Gruffudd Llwyd (d.1335)
gets an entry in the new DNB; his father, brother and grandfather all
get subsidiary mentions, too. That source gives his father, Rhys ap
Gruffudd ab Ednyfed (d.1284), for wife Margaret le Strange; she doesn't
appear in Bartrum. It identifies her as sister of Hawise who married
Gruffudd ap Gwenwynwyn of Powys. There is a line from this Sir Gruffudd
Llwyd- reliable or not- down to the Cradock alias Newton family of
Somerset, and hence to several others including Capel and Griffin.
You're right, the Pulestons are descibed as being of Emral at an
earlier date and I don't have that place connected with the Griffiths.
Rhys, son of that Robert ap Gruffudd ap Hywel, is described as of
Cinmel; New DNB gives his death date as 1377.

Matthew

[Theron L.Smith]

James write:
" The Relationship between the Tudors and the Griffiths seems to come down
to Ednyfed Fychan ... and a half ? brother Tudor who had a son Heilin,father of Gruffydd,
father of that Rhys I ap Gruffydd/Griffith who married Joan Somerville.
" So it appears that Rhys I Griffith was a 3rd cousin to Tudor Fychan, Henry VII`s 2nd great grandfather ..."

Some kind of 3d cousin, yes! More specifically, wouldn't he be a 3d cousin once removed or maybe even a 3d HALF cousin once removed?
Theron.