Monday, 9 January, 2006
Dear Will,
It appears you have two Roberts (de Ros) conflated: the
husband of Margaret de Brus d. before 20 April 1274. It was his
son and heir Robert who was Lord Ros of Wark, and subsequently
forfeited for treason.
There is record, however, that his daughters sought restoration of
his lands due to an amnesty granted to John Comyn and his adherents
(prob. the 1304 agreement). See the refs. in the pedigree given below.
Cheers,
John
_____________________________________
1 Sir Robert de Ros
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 23 Dec 1226[1]
Birth: ca 1172[1]
Father: Everard de Ros (-1183)
Mother: Rohese Trussebut (ca1151-<1197)
of Helmsley in Holderness, co. York and Wark, Northumberland
succeeded to the Trussebut inheritance of his mother, 1196 (answered for
500m. as the eldest coheir of Robert Trussebut, 1195- Sanders, p. 56[2])
of the escort of William, King of Scots to court in England, Nov. 1200
and in 1209
Sheriff of Cumberland, 1213-1215[1]
' Robertus de Ros, ij milites ' - accounted for the service of 2 knights'
fees in Northumberland, ca. 1201-1212 [Red Book of the Exchequer
I: 179[3]]
payment received from King John of England, at Carrickfergus, 25 July 1210:
' 477. Prests to knights at Carrickfergus the day of St. James the
Apostle. Robert de Ros, 40 marks; the Earl of Winchester, 50 marks;
Earl David, 30 marks, delivered to Bartholomew de Mortuo mari; David
de Hastinges, 4 marks, for John his father; Eustace de Vescy, 30
marks; Henry son of Earl David, 2 marks (and many others). '
[Bain I:81[4], cites Prestita, 12 John, m. 5]
subsequently served King John in Ireland, August 1210:
Sean Duffy wrote, re: King John and Baldwin, count of Aumale, in Ireland:
' Baldwin spent at least part of the summer of 1210 in Ireland. The
praestita roll records payments made to Flemish knights at Dublin on
28 June and at Greenoge (in the barony of Ratoath, County Meath) two
days later, at Carlingford on 11 July, Carrickfergus on 27 July,
Drogheda on 9 August, and Fore (in County Westmeath) on 11 August.39
Within a week King John was back at Dublin, where substantial payments
were again made to the Flemings in his service, including, on 19
August, to the count of Aumale himself . [Rot. liberate, p. 214.
Baldwin's tenants Fulk and Lambert de Oyry and Robert de Ros received
prests at Dublin on 21 August (ibid., p. 225). The `knights of the earl
of Aubemarle' received further payments at Dublin two days later
(ibid., p. 226). All told, at least thirty-three Flemish knights
received prests during the expedition (Painter, King John, p. 265
n.130).] ' [Duffy[5]]
A similar letter to the following, written
' to Robert de Ros concerning the brother of Walter de Clifford '
[unidentified]
a hostage of the King of Scotland placed with Robert for safekeeping,
to be transferred to the King of England's custody, 13 June 1213 :
' 574. Concerning the K. of Scotland's hostages. The K. to S[aher] earl of
Winchester. Commands him on receipt, immediately to send the K. by
good and safe messengers, Reginald his own son, and the son of William
de Veteripont, hostages of the K. of Scotland, who are in his custody
by the K.'s order; so that they may be with the K. at Portsmouth on the
vigil of St. John Baptist instant. Beaulieu. ' [Bain I:100-101[4],
cites Foedera I:113; and Close Roll 15 John, p. 1, m. 4]
Surety for the Magna Carta, 1215;
returned to allegiance to the King, November 1217
Confirmation made by Robert de Ros [II] to Meaux abbey of the gift in
Warter made by Geoffrey Trussebut, his uncle, and of the land of Arras
called Blanchemarle given by Geoffrey Dagon; also of the gifts of
William son of Asketil in Warter, of Robert son of Osmund, of Walter
de Boynton in Arnold, of Richer de Arnold of the site of the grange
there, of Gilbert son of William de Dalton in Harlthorpe [par. Bubwith],
of Osbert de Frismarais between Beeford and Nunkeeling, and of Simon
Tuschet in Middleton on the Wolds. [1210-26] (Boynton, citing C.T.
Clay, Early Yorkshire Charters, vol. X no. 92)[6]
2nd husband of Isabel 'of Scotland'[1]
Spouse: Isabel of Scotland
Father: William 'the Lion', King of Scotland (1143-1214)
Mother: NN [probably dau. of Roger de Avenel]
Marr: 1191, Haddington, Scotland[1]
Children: Sir William (-ca1264), of Helmsley
Robert (-1269)
Peter
Alexander
1.1 Robert de Ros
----------------------------------------
Death: 1269[1]
knight, of Wark on Tweed, Northumberland and Sanquhar, Nithsdale
second son
hostage for his father, held by King John, 1206 [CP IX:92[1]]
' Lord Robert de Ros ', witness to charter of Patrick, son of Patrick
Earl of Dunbar dated at Roxburgh 3 Kal. April, 17 Alexander [30 March
1231] - Durham University Library Archives & Special Collections:
Misc. Charter 733 [Printed: Raine ND App. CXXVI][7]
Chief Justice of King's Bench, 1234; Chief Justice of the Forests North
of Trent, 1236[1]
' Robert de Ros de Werk ', knight
Arms: ' Or three water bougets sable ' [ H S London, Rolls of Arms,
Henry III, Aspilogia 2, Society of Antiquaries, London, 1967 - ca.
1252 or later, B 173 ][8]
his lands evidently included the manor of Bellester (or Bellister) in
Tynedale, originally part of the maritagium of his ancestress Isabel
of Scotland. [cf. restoration of same to his descendant Gerard Salvayn]
Spouse: NN
Children: William de Ros, of Downham
Robert (-<1274)
Isabel, m. 1) Sir Roger de Merlay,
2) Sir Adam de Everingham
Ida (->1315), m. 1) Sir Roger Bertram,
2) Sir Robert de Neville
1.1.1 Robert de Ros
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 20 Apr 1274[4],[9]
of Wark on Tweed, Northumberland and Sanquhar, Nithsdale
younger son, made heir to father[9]
his lands evidently included the manor of Bellester (or Bellister) in
Tynedale, originally part of the maritagium of his ancestress Isabel
of Scotland. [cf. restoration of same to his descendant Gerard Salvayn]
'Robert de Ros, junior', one of the sureties for William de Kyme in a
complaint by William Bardolf, 1253 [Pleas of the Crown 31-32[10]]
' Extent of the manor of Kyrkeby in Kendale, with the castle [under
writ, dated Westminster, 20 April preceding, directing the K.'s
escheator ultra Trent, to make an extent of the lands of the deceased
Robert de Ros of Werk, both of his own heritage, and that of Margaret
his wife], made of Monday next, after the quinzaine of Holy Trinity,...
The jurors say that said manor has fallen in the purparty of Margaret
de Ros, the last born daughter and one of the heirs of Peter de Brus,
and is held of the K. in capite. ' [Bain II:4-5[4], cites Inq. p. m.,
2 Edw. I. No. 26.]
______________________
re: his wife:
3rd sister and coheiress of her brother Piers de Brus
inheritance included barony of Kendal, Westmoreland [divided between her
son William and nephew Marmaduke de Thweng][9]
gave charter of the forest of Rydal and her share of Ambleside and
Loughrigg, held of her by Sir Roger de Lancaster, illeg. brother of
her mother[1]
Re: her claim as coheiress of the Earl of Aumale, see Blakely[11]
Spouse: Margaret de Brus
Death: 1307[2]
Father: Piers de Brus (-1240), of Skelton and Danby in Cleveland
Mother: Hawise de Lancaster, heiress of Kendal
Children: Robert (-<1310)
William (-<1310), of Kendal
1.1.1.1 Robert de Ros
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 5 Mar 1310, d.s.p.m. (probably in Scotland)[12],[1]
Occ: Lord Ros of Wark
of Wark on Tweed, Northumberland
summoned to Parliament from 24 June 1295 by writ directed 'Roberto de
Roos de Werke', thereby held to have become Lord Ros of Wark[13]
his lands included the manor of Bellester (or Bellister) in Tynedale,
originally part of the maritagium of his ancestress Isabel of Scotland.
Held in dower by his mother at her death, 1307 [Bain IV:381[14],
cites Chancery Miscellaneous Portfolios, No. 41/195]
[cf. restoration of same to his descendant Gerard Salvayn]
in support of Scottish cause against Edward I, resisted at Wark and
defeated forces of his brother, March 1296 (subsequently fled to
Scotland)[15] - Wark taken by forces of Edward I of England[16]
~ evidently continued in his Scots holdings, incl. the lordship of
Sanquhar, Nithsdale after his escape to Scotland in 1296
held lands in Scotland as recorded on 27 April 1296, which had been burnt:
" Robertus de Ros tenet villatam de Car ....w, quae combusta 'est' et
jacet vasta, etc. Et nemo praedictas terras tenet modo. " [Stevenson
II:43[17]]
Spouse: [CONJECTURED] Laura (de Baliol ?)[1]
Father: [CONJECTURED] Alexander de Baliol (-<1311) of Cavers
Mother: [CONJECTURED] Isabel de Chilham (-1291)
Marr: bef 1292[1]
Children: Margaret (ca1292->1321)
Isabel (ca1295-)
1.1.1.1.1 Margaret de Ros
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1292, Scotland[1],[12]
Death: aft 26 Dec 1321[18]
elder daughter and coheir:
' b. in Scotland ( Rolls of Parl., vol. i., p. 183). The elder
[daughter], Margaret (aet. 15 in 1307, Cal. Inq. p.m. vol. iv., no.
427) m. John Salveyn (see Surtees' Durham, vol. iv, City of Durham,
p. 118);..' [CP XI:122, note (a)[1]]
record of her petition to King Edward I for the lands of her
father Robert de Ros, 1306-07:
' 1835. (1) John Salvein and Margarete his wife, and Isabele her
sister pray the K.'s grace herein. Margarete de Ros lately held the manor
of Belethre as dower, of the heritage of Robert de Ros father of said
Margarete and Isabele, whose heirs they are. As she is dead, the
petitioners pray for the manor (notwithstanding that Robert their
father held with the Scots), under the peace with Sir John Comyn
and his adherents.
(2) Robert de Bures shews the K. that for his long service, and
in lieu of 100 marks of land, he received lately a charter of lands in
Scotland, since annulled by the peace made with John Comyn, now
dead, and begs a grant of Belestre manor escheated by Robert de
Brus [Ros ?], extended at 31l. yearly....'
(Endorsed) Rex concessit Roberto de Burs manerium de Belestre
ad totam vitam ipsius Roberti et inde habet cartam Regis. ' [Bain
IV:381[14], cites Chancery Miscellaneous Portfolios, No. 41/195]
order of King Edward II, dated at Berwick, 5 March 1310/11:
' 199. The K. to W. bishop of Worcester, the chancellor. As John de
Knockes the husband of Isabella daughter and one of the heirs of the
late Robert de Ros of Werke, has asked his wife's purparty of her
father's lands both in England and Scotland, and the K. hears that
William son of Sir William de Ros of Hamelake is in possession of the
manor of Werke, he commands that the sheriff of Northumberland be
instructed to summon William to appear before the K. on the morrow
of next Ascension Day, to shew cause why he should not resign the
lands to the claimants under the conditions granted by the late K.
to Sir John Comyn and his adherents. Berwick-on -Tweed. '
[Bain III:39-40[12], cites Privy Seals (Tower), 4 Edw. II. File 5]
order of King Edward II to give Margaret de Ros and her husband John
Salvayn seisin of half of her father's lands, dated at London, 30
July 1312:
' 292. The K., referring to the conditions on which his late father
received John Comyn of Badenagh and his Scottish adherents to his
peace - that the late Robert de Ros of Werk was among these, and
John Salvayn and John de Knoches, the husbands of Margaret the
firstborn and Isabella the younger (postnata) daughters and heirs
of said Robert, have represented that their wives were under age
and entitled to the conditions of the peace with Comyn, and were
born and baptized in Scotland, as proved before the Chancellor of
Scotland by its laws and customs, and have offerred their homage -
commands the eschaetor ultra Trent to give John Salvayn, whose homage
he has taken, and Margaret his wife, seisin of their property, being
one half of Robert's lands, retaining the other half of John de
Knoches and his wife till further instructions. London. '
[Bain III:56[12], cites Close 6 Edw. II. m. 29]
re: seeking seisin in the summer of 1312, they were thwarted: record
of John Salvain's complaint,
'His w. Margaret, d. coh. of Rob. de Ros of Werk, a Scottish rebel,
was born in Scotland, and seeks restoration of her lands, the
sub-Escheator having come to give them seisin of Belestre Manor,
Northumb., and the forester of Belestre having prevented him, 28
Sep 1312.'[18]
reported to have obtained restoration of her rights, forfeited by her
father:
' In 1367 Gerard Salveyn, kinsman and h. of Margaret, obtained an
exemplification of letters patent, said to have been dated at Clipstone,
6 Nov. 1312 [not enrolled], pardoning to her her father's forfeitures for
adhering to the Scots, under Edward I's promise to John Comyn and
his men (Cal. Patent Rolls, 1364-67, p. 41).'
[CP XI:122, sub _Ros of Wark_][1]
see also Dugdale, Baronage of England under Ros of Werke, p. 555[19]
____________________
re: her husband:
John Salvain (or Salvayn), knt., of Belestre, Northumberland (de
jure uxoris)
according to Burke, heir of his father (d.v.p.)[20]
named as husband of Margaret de Ros by Dugdale[19]
Spouse: John Salvain
Death: bef 13 Mar 1320[20],[18]
Father: Robert Salvayn (-<1297)
Mother: Sibilla Beeston (->1286)
Children: Sir Gerard (<1307-1374) Salvain, of North Duffield
1.1.1.1.2 Isabel de Ros
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1295, Scotland[1],[12]
coheiress of her father
record of her petition together with her sister Margaret, to
King Edward I, for the lands of her father Robert de Ros, 1306-07
[Bain IV:381[14], cites Chancery Miscellaneous Portfolios, No. 41/195]
order of King Edward II, dated at Berwick, 5 March 1310/11 [Bain
III:39-40[12], cites Privy Seals (Tower), 4 Edw. II. File 5]
she m. John de Knockes [CP XI:122 note (a)][1]
the following (in error as to the Ros/Ross family under discussion)
from The Topographical, Statistical and Historical Gazetteer of
Scotland:[21]
' The earliest proprietors of the castle and circumjacent lands, or
Lords of Sanquhar, were the Roos, Roose, or Ross family, cadets of
the Earls of Ross, Lords of the Isles. Isobel de Ross, the last of the
line, married William, the 2d son of Thomas, Lord of Crichton,
who flourished in the reign of Robert Bruce. At this epoch, Richard
Edgar, a descendant of Dunegal,... obtained possession of the
castle and half the barony. But the son of Isobel de Ross, and of
William who became Lord of Crichton, appears to have eventually
expelled the intruder, and regained the inheritance.... Sir Robert
Crichton, great-grandson of Isobel de Ross, was, in 1464, appointed
by James III, hereditary sheriff of Dumfries-shire.' (II:637)[21]
the following, cited as being from Chalmers' "Caledonia":
' During the reign of Robert Bruce the barony was divided between
Richard Edgar and William de Crichton, who held the other half in
right of his wife Isabella de Ros. '
see J. Ravilious, 'CP 'Expansion': Sanquhar, co. Dumfries and de Ros
of Wark'[22]
Spouse: John de Knockes
1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
2. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent,
1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
3. "Liber Rubeus de Scaccario," "(Red Book of the Exchequer)," images
provided by Ancestry.com.
4. Joseph Bain, ed., "Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland,"
Edinburgh: Her Majesty's General Register House, 1881 (Vol. I),
full title: Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland, Preserved
in Her Majesty's Public Record Office, London.
5. Seán Duffy, "King John's expedition to Ireland, 1210: the evidence
reconsidered," Irish Historical Studies v.30 n.117 (May, 1996).
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/ARTICLES/duffy.htm
6. "The Boyntons," Bob Boynton,
http://bob-boynton.hypermart.net/stories/partytime.html
citing Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward II, Vol. I, 1307-1313,
Printed for Her Majesty's Stationery Office, 1894, p. 549, re: the
kidnapping of Lucy de Thweng, wife of Robert de Everingham,
citing C.T. Clay, Early Yorkshire Charters.
7. "Durham Cathedral Muniments: Miscellaneous Charters," Durham
University Library Archives & Special Collections,
http://flambard.dur.ac.uk:6336/dynaweb/handlist/ddc/dcdmisch/@Generic__BookTextView/10523
8. Brian Timms, "Glover's Roll (B1)," H S London, Rolls of Arms,
Henry III, Aspilogia 2, Society of Antiquaries, London, 1967,
http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/
Dated c1252 or later., B1 - Cooke's version.
9. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David
Faris).
10. "Yorkshire Feet of Fines 1206," trans. by Virginia Murphy, Latin
text from Pedes Finium Ebor. Regnante Johanne, a.d. mcxcix-a.d.
mccxiv, published for the Surtees Society, vol. 94, 1987, pp.
101-109., URL :
http://bob-boynton.hypermart.net/people/boyntontriangle/walterwitness/feetfines.html
also, records in Lincolnshire: Ingram de Boynton in Court, cites
Pleas of the Crown before the King's Council a Fortnight after
Michaelmas in the Thirty-seventh Year of the Reign of Henry III
(1253). H. G. Ricahrdson and G. O. Sayles (1941) Select Cases
of Procedure Without Writ Under Henry III, London, pp. 31-32, URL:
http://bob-boynton.hypermart.net/people/boyntontriangle/ingram01/doc-court.html
11. Cristopher Nash, "Re: Domesday Descendants corrections: Harcourt
& Brus," June 8, 2002, GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com, citing Ruth
Blakely, 'The Bruses of Skelton and William of Aumale', Yorks
Archeol. Jnl. (2001) 73:19-28.
12. Joseph Bain, ed., "Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland,"
Edinburgh: Her Majesty's General Register House, 1888 (Vol. III),
full title: Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland, Preserved
in Her Majesty's Public Record Office, London.
13. "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages," Burke's Peerage,
from Genealogy.com Family History: Notable British Families, p. 460
(Ros).
14. Joseph Bain, ed., "Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland,"
Edinburgh: Her Majesty's General Register House, 1888 (Vol. IV),
full title: Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland, Preserved
in Her Majesty's Public Record Office, London.
15. "Edward I," Michael Prestwich, New Haven: Yale University Press,
1997 [in England, originally 1988 -Methuen], Yale English Monarchs
series.
16. G. W. S. Barrow, "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm of
Scotland," Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).
17. Joseph Stevenson, "Documents illustrative of the history of Scotland
from the death of King Alexander the Third to the Accession of Robert
Bruce," Edinburgh: H. M. General Register House, 1870 (Vol. I).
18. Rev. Charles Moor, D.D., F.S.A., "Knights of Edward I," Pubs. of the
Harleian Society, 1929-1930, 3 Vols. (Vols. 80-83 in series).
19. William Dugdale, Norroy King of Arms, "The Baronage of England,"
Tho. Newcomb [reprint Georg Verlag, New York], London, 1675
[reprint New York, 1977].
20. John Burke, Esq., "A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the
Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland," Genealogy.com Family
Archive Image (Notable British Families), Vol. I, pp. 533-534
(Salvain), 488 (Dugdale), part of compiled work, Burke's American
Families with British Ancestry, (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing
Company, 1975).
21. "The Topographical, Statistical and Historical Gazetteer of
Scotland," Edinburgh: A. Fullarton & Co., 1856, pp. 121-122,
concerning Rathillet 'the house and hamlet' in the parish of
Kilmany, 2 volumes, 'And an Appendix, Containing the results in
Detail of the Census of 1851'.
22. John P. Ravilious, "CP 'Expansion': Sanquhar, co. Dumfries and de
Ros of Wark," September 16, 2003, GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com,
discusses identification of Isabel de Ros, daughter of Robert de
Ros of Wark, as wife of William Crichton of Sanquhar, and heiress
of her father in Scotland.