Discussion:
King's Kinsfolk: Robert de Fiennes, Constable of France, kinsman of King Jean II of France
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Douglas Richardson
2003-11-26 09:01:12 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

There is a fascinating article in the French language found in the
source, Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes, 3rd ser. 3 (1852): 23–52,
which article is entitled "Notice sur Robert de Fiennes, connétable de
France (1320-1384)." This source can be found on the gallica website
at the following web address:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/

Newsgroup members who descend from Jacquette de Luxembourg, wife of
Richard Wydeville, Earl Rivers, will doubtless find the article of
great interest, as Jacquette descends from Jeanne de Fiennes, wife of
Jean de Châtillon, which Jeanne was a sister of Robert de Fiennes.

In footnote 2 on page 40, the author includes a record dated 1360, in
which Robert de Fiennes, is styled "our cousin" [nostre cousin] by
King Jean II of France. Reviewing their respective ancestries, I find
Robert de Fiennes and King Jean II were related in 5th and 5th degrees
of kindred (that is, 4th cousins) by common descent from Alphonso
VIII, King of Castile (died 1214):

Alphonso VIII, King of Castile
__________________/_______________
/ /
Blanche of Castile Berengere of Castile
=King Louis VIII of France =Jean de Brienne, King
/ of Jerusalem
/ /
King Louis IX of France Jean de Brienne
/ /
Agnes of France Blanche de Brienne
= Robert II, Duke of Burgundy = Guillaume de Fiennes
/ /
Jeanne of Burgundy Jean de Fiennes
= King Philippe VI of France /
/ /
King Jean II of France Robert de Fiennes, Constable
of France

Robert de Fiennes and King Jean II also share a common descent from
Robert II, Count of Dreux (died 1218). This kinship is also 5th and
5th degrees.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: ***@msn.com
Randy Jones
2003-11-26 16:42:12 UTC
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Post by Douglas Richardson
Alphonso VIII, King of Castile
__________________/_______________
/ /
Blanche of Castile Berengere of
Castile
=King Louis VIII of France =Jean de Brienne,
King
/ of Jerusalem
/ /
King Louis IX of France Jean de Brienne
/ /
Agnes of France Blanche de Brienne
= Robert II, Duke of Burgundy = Guillaume de
Fiennes
/ /
Jeanne of Burgundy Jean de Fiennes
= King Philippe VI of France /
/ /
King Jean II of France Robert de Fiennes,
Constable
of France
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City,
Utah
Isn't Barengaria de Castile who married Jean I de
Brienne the daughter of Alfonso IX, rather than
Alfonso VIII?

-- Randy Jones

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Todd A. Farmerie
2003-11-26 16:58:22 UTC
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Post by Randy Jones
Post by Douglas Richardson
Alphonso VIII, King of Castile
__________________/_______________
/ /
Blanche of Castile Berengere of
Castile
=King Louis VIII of France =Jean de Brienne,
King
/ of Jerusalem
/ /
King Louis IX of France Jean de Brienne
/ /
Agnes of France Blanche de Brienne
= Robert II, Duke of Burgundy = Guillaume de
Fiennes
/ /
Jeanne of Burgundy Jean de Fiennes
= King Philippe VI of France /
/ /
King Jean II of France Robert de Fiennes,
Constable
of France
Isn't Barengaria de Castile who married Jean I de
Brienne the daughter of Alfonso IX, rather than
Alfonso VIII?
Yes, Berengaria was full sister of Fernando III, and niece of
Blanche, wife of Louis VIII. She was daughter of an earlier
Berengaria, who was herself daughter of Alfonso VIII.

taf
Peter Stewart
2003-11-26 23:04:46 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Todd A. Farmerie
Post by Randy Jones
Isn't Barengaria de Castile who married Jean I de
Brienne the daughter of Alfonso IX, rather than
Alfonso VIII?
Yes, Berengaria was full sister of Fernando III, and niece of
Blanche, wife of Louis VIII. She was daughter of an earlier
Berengaria, who was herself daughter of Alfonso VIII.
For these gentlemen, it might be handy to give their by-names - the
Castilian kings tended to collect fairly picturesque ones that are
worth remembering. In this case there is a felicitous contrast.

Alfonso VIII was known as "el Noble" (the Noble) and Alfonso IX as "el
Baboso" (the Slobberer).

Peter Stewart
Douglas Richardson
2003-11-26 23:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Randy ~

Thank you for your good post.

Yes, you are entirely correct. Below is a revised chart showing the
correct descent. Thanks for spotting the mistake.

I. Common descent from Alphonso VIII, King of Castile:

The chart below shows that King Jean II of France and Robert de
Fiennes were related in the 5th & 6th degrees of kindred by common
descent from Alphonso VIII, King of Castile (died 1214).

Alphonso VIII, King of Castile (died 1214)
________________/_______________
/ /
Blanche of Castile Berenguela of Castile
= King Louis VIII of France = Alfonso IX, King of León
/ /
King Louis IX of France Berengere of Castile
Post by Randy Jones
King Louis IX of France =Jean de Brienne, King of
/ Jerusalem
/ /
Agnes of France Jean de Brienne
= Robert II, Duke of /
Burgundy /
/ /
Jeanne of Burgundy Blanche de Brienne
= King Philippe VI of France = Guillaume de Fiennes
/ /
King Jean II of France Jean de Fiennes
/
Robert de Fiennes,
Constable of France

II. Common Descent from Robert II, Count of Dreux:

As I stated in my original post, Robert de Fiennes and King Jean II of
France were also related in the 5th and 5th degree of kindred by
common descent from Robert, Count of Dreux (died 1218). The chart
outlines their respective descents.

Robert II, Count of Dreux (died 1218)
______________/_________________
/ /
Robert III, Count of Dreux Philippe of Dreux
/ = Henry II, Count of Bar
/ /
Yolande of Dreux Marguerite of Bar
= Hugues IV, Duke of Burgundy =Henri II, Count of
/ Luxembourg & Namur
/ /
Robert II, Duke of Burgundy Isabelle of Luxembourg
/ =Guy de Dampierre
/ Count of Flanders
/ /
Jeanne of Burgundy Isabelle of Flanders
=King Philippe VI of France =Jean de Fiennes
/ /
King Jean II of France Robert de Fiennes,
Constable of France

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Post by Randy Jones
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City,
Utah
Isn't Barengaria de Castile who married Jean I de
Brienne the daughter of Alfonso IX, rather than
Alfonso VIII?
-- Randy Jones
__________________________________
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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