Nicholas de Segrave / Maud de Lucy

[Joe]

Nicholas de Segrave, 1st Lord Segrave (d. 1295) has long been known to
have married a Maud de Lucy based on a genealogy found in the records
of the Chaucombe Priory. [1,2,3]
“Et de ipsis Gilberto et Amibilia exivit filius et heres nomine d’ns
Nicholaus qui nuptus fuit Matill’ Lucy”

The question has been, who are her parents?

This has been addressed a few times on SGM with Doug Richardson saying
“I've
"conjectured" that Maud de Lucy was the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy,
Knt., of Cublington, Buckinghamshire, Dallington and Slapton,
Northamptonshire, and Potsgrove, Bedfordshire, who died in
1272-3.” [4]

I note that Doug in his Magna Carta Ancestry states “Nicolas de
Segrave… by Maud, daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy” without qualification.
[5] I can’t find the basis for calling Maud a daughter of this
Geoffrey in the archives or on the internet; though it would not be
unlikely as Nicholas de Segrave occurs frequently in records with
Geoffrey de Lucy (brother-in-law?)

Doug, I’m wondering if you have found good proof of this
identification, or at least how strong of a likelihood this is.

Joe

1. A New Addition of the Description of Leicestershire, by William
Burton Esq. (1777). p. 77. http://tinyurl.com/3kdsrhj
2. Catalogue of the Arundel Manuscripts in the Library of the College
of Arms, pub. by College of Arms (1829). p. 90b http://tinyurl.com/3zhxd2q
3. Collectanea topographica et genealogica, Vol. 2, ed. by Frederic
Madden, Bulkeley Bandinel, John Gough Nichols (1835). p. 388 ‘Burials
at Chacombe Priory, co. Northampton’ http://tinyurl.com/3gjsy2q
4. SGM thread ‘[Fwd: Wife of Nicholas Segrave]’First post 14 Nov.
2001 http://tinyurl.com/422tmpb
4. SGM thread ‘Ancestry of John, 2nd Lord Segrave (was Re: Ancestry
of Sir Hugh le Despenser)’ First post 16 January 2006. http://tinyurl.com/4yc455x
4. SGM thread ‘Sir John de Saint John's cousin, Sir John de Segrave,
2nd Lord Segrave’ First post 28 Nov. 2007 http://tinyurl.com/3bdj8gp
5. Magna Carta Ancestry, by Doug Richardson (2005). P. 176
http://tinyurl.com/3rgmxbg

[Joe]

While looking at the Segrave family, I note the dates of death are
generally not given or estimated for the Segrave family. They are
certainly not in CP or used by Doug in his write-ups of the Segrave
family. However in the Arundel Manuscripts on p. 90a are extracts
which give the dates for the obits of the founders and patrons as
celebrated at Chaucombe Priory. [1] I hesitate to give these and
would appreciate some help with the translation. I am unsure what
some of the numbers after the dates indicate. Also, I don’t want to
mess up the dates which use kalends/nones/ides. I believe all of
these dates would be corrections/additions to CP.

For example, CP says for Sir Nicholas de Segrave: “He d. 1241 at
Leicester Abbey”; and in fn h “The date of death is given by M.
Paris, Chron. Maj., vol. IV p. 169as 9 Nov. 1241, but on 16 Oct.
1241 , the king gave orders for the purchase of a silken pall to cover
the tomb of Stephen de Segrave…” [2]

The extract from Chaucombe priory says:
De obitu d’ni Stephani de Segrave primi vij Id. Se[p]tember. Lxxxvj.
Which I take to be
Death of Sir Stephen de Segrave (d. 1241) the first, 7th day before
the ides of September (7 September)
The 7 September date fits nicely with the King’s order of 16 October.


For his grandson, CP says for Sir Nicholas de Segrave, 1st Lord
Segrave “he d. bef. 12 Nov. 1295” (date of a writ of diem clausit
extremum) [2]
The extract from Chaucombe priory says:
De obitu d’ni Nicholai de Segrave Advocati nostri. iiij Idus Novembr.
Xxxiij.
Which I take to be
Death of Sir Nicholas de Segrave our patron, 4th day before the ides
of November (10 November)

Joe


1. Catalogue of the Arundel Manuscripts in the Library of the College
of Arms, pub. by College of Arms (1829). p. 90a http://tinyurl.com/3zhxd2q
2. CP XI Segrave p. 596-612

[Joe]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Wanda Thacker]

I don't know if this will be helpful at all. Aside from about 50 million books on google books that have Nicholas and Geoffrey's names side by side, I found this that indicates that they would have been in close association with each other, 

Pilgrims and pilgrimage in the medieval
West - Page 169
Diana Webb - 2001

(i)1261, December 28
(ii) Geoffrey de Lucy and Nicholas Segrave have gone to Pontigny and are granted protection along with many others, including many servants of the Lord Edward. [CPR H III, 5, p. 

Wanda L Thacker


________________________________
From: Joe <***@gmail.com>
To: gen-***@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:18 PM
Subject: Nicholas de Segrave / Maud de Lucy

Nicholas de Segrave, 1st Lord Segrave (d. 1295) has long been known to
have married a Maud de Lucy based on a genealogy found in the records
of the Chaucombe Priory. [1,2,3]
“Et de ipsis Gilberto et Amibilia exivit filius et heres nomine d’ns
Nicholaus qui nuptus fuit Matill’ Lucy”

The question has been, who are her parents?

This has been addressed a few times on SGM with Doug Richardson saying
“I've
"conjectured" that Maud de Lucy was the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy,
Knt., of Cublington, Buckinghamshire, Dallington and Slapton,
Northamptonshire, and Potsgrove, Bedfordshire, who died in
1272-3.” [4]

I note that Doug in his Magna Carta Ancestry states “Nicolas de
Segrave… by Maud, daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy” without qualification.
[5]  I can’t find the basis for calling Maud a daughter of this
Geoffrey in the archives or on the internet; though it would not be
unlikely as Nicholas de Segrave occurs frequently in records with
Geoffrey de Lucy (brother-in-law?)

Doug, I’m wondering if you have found good proof of this
identification, or at least how strong of a likelihood this is.

Joe

1. A New Addition of the Description of Leicestershire, by William
Burton Esq. (1777). p. 77. http://tinyurl.com/3kdsrhj
2.  Catalogue of the Arundel Manuscripts in the Library of the College
of Arms, pub. by College of Arms (1829). p. 90b    http://tinyurl.com/3zhxd2q
3.  Collectanea topographica et genealogica, Vol. 2, ed. by Frederic
Madden, Bulkeley Bandinel, John Gough Nichols (1835).  p. 388 ‘Burials
at Chacombe Priory, co. Northampton’ http://tinyurl.com/3gjsy2q
4.  SGM thread ‘[Fwd: Wife of Nicholas Segrave]’First post 14 Nov.
2001 http://tinyurl.com/422tmpb
4.  SGM thread ‘Ancestry of John, 2nd Lord Segrave (was Re: Ancestry
of Sir Hugh le Despenser)’ First post 16 January 2006.  http://tinyurl.com/4yc455x
4.  SGM thread ‘Sir John de Saint John's cousin, Sir John de Segrave,
2nd Lord Segrave’ First post 28 Nov. 2007  http://tinyurl.com/3bdj8gp
5.  Magna Carta Ancestry, by Doug Richardson (2005). P.  176
http://tinyurl.com/3rgmxbg

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[Douglas Richardson]

Joe ~

In the new 2nd edition of Magna Carta Ancestry, published in 2011, Mr.
Richardson states Maud de Lucy, wife of Nicholas de Segrave, was
"possibly" the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy, Knt., of Chelmscott (in
Soulbury), Cublington, and Fulbrook (in Hogshaw), Buckinghamshire.

Maud de Lucy's parentage still has not been proven.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Post by Joe
Nicholas de Segrave, 1st Lord Segrave (d. 1295) has long been known to
have married a Maud de Lucy based on a genealogy found in the records
of the Chaucombe Priory. [1,2,3]
“Et de ipsis Gilberto et Amibilia exivit filius et heres nomine d’ns
Nicholaus qui nuptus fuit Matill’ Lucy”
The question has been, who are her parents?
This has been addressed a few times on SGM with Doug Richardson saying
“I've
"conjectured" that Maud de Lucy was the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy,
Knt., of Cublington, Buckinghamshire, Dallington and Slapton,
Northamptonshire, and Potsgrove, Bedfordshire, who died in
1272-3.” [4]
I note that Doug in his Magna Carta Ancestry states “Nicolas de
Segrave… by Maud, daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy” without qualification.
[5]  I can’t find the basis for calling Maud a daughter of this
Geoffrey in the archives or on the internet; though it would not be
unlikely as Nicholas de Segrave occurs frequently in records with
Geoffrey de Lucy (brother-in-law?)
Doug, I’m wondering if you have found good proof of this
identification, or at least how strong of a likelihood this is.
Joe

[Joe]

Post by Douglas Richardson
Joe ~
In the new 2nd edition of Magna Carta Ancestry, published in 2011, Mr.
Richardson states Maud de Lucy, wife of Nicholas de Segrave, was
"possibly" the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy, Knt., of Chelmscott (in
Soulbury), Cublington, and Fulbrook (in Hogshaw), Buckinghamshire.
Maud de Lucy's parentage still has not been proven.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Post by Joe
Nicholas de Segrave, 1st Lord Segrave (d. 1295) has long been known to
have married a Maud de Lucy based on a genealogy found in the records
of the Chaucombe Priory. [1,2,3]
“Et de ipsis Gilberto et Amibilia exivit filius et heres nomine d’ns
Nicholaus qui nuptus fuit Matill’ Lucy”
The question has been, who are her parents?
This has been addressed a few times on SGM with Doug Richardson saying
“I've
"conjectured" that Maud de Lucy was the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy,
Knt., of Cublington, Buckinghamshire, Dallington and Slapton,
Northamptonshire, and Potsgrove, Bedfordshire, who died in
1272-3.” [4]
I note that Doug in his Magna Carta Ancestry states “Nicolas de
Segrave… by Maud, daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy” without qualification.
[5]  I can’t find the basis for calling Maud a daughter of this
Geoffrey in the archives or on the internet; though it would not be
unlikely as Nicholas de Segrave occurs frequently in records with
Geoffrey de Lucy (brother-in-law?)
Doug, I’m wondering if you have found good proof of this
identification, or at least how strong of a likelihood this is.
Joe

Thanks for the reply Doug.

Do you have any idea why/how John de Segrave was calling Humphrey de
Bassingborne his cousin? (http://tinyurl.com/3j69f56 ) I know you
have frequently been able to use such statements to help discover an
ancestry.

Joe