TJ Booth_aol
2011-04-01 04:25:54 UTC
It was noted 2 days ago that Sir Andrew Trollope and 'his son David' both d. 29 Mar 1461 at the battle of Towton Field. The post noted that novelist Anthony Trollope claimed a descent from Sir Andrew, and asked if anyone in this group could verify the claim or identify Sir Andrew's descendants.
Sir Andrew's heir was his daughter Isabella, who m. William Lee Esq. of Morpeth, Treasurer of Berwick. Thus, novelist Anthony Trollope could not be Sir Andrew's agnate descendant, and another 'family tradition' bites the dust. It would also appear that David Trollope, included among Stow's contemporary list of those who lost their lives at Towton Field - if related at all beyond a shared last name - would more likely be a brother based on chronology.
As for the battle itself, there is a listing of participants and killed in Clement Markham's 'Battle of Towton' which corrects historian John Stowe's [1525-1625] less than accurate traditional list.[1] It was earlier noted here that death estimates varied, with 20,000 a likely number. Markham accepts 20,000 casualties as reasonable, but suggests (citing historian Polydore Vergil [1470-1555]) half were wounded/captured, not killed. He also notes (p. 22) that "All historians unite in the statement that the old nobility of England was nearly annihilated by the bloody battles and ruthless executions of the war of the Roses. But facts are opposed to this theory. Scarcely a single peerage became extinct owing to the war of the Roses [i.e. peers may have died, but most lines continued]." Even so it was a huge loss at the time.
Isabella Trollope, dau of Sir Andrew Trolloppe, m. William Lee, Treasurer of Berkshire. The couple is identified in an 'old DNB' article about their son, Rowland Lee, Bishop of Litchfield and Coventry, and Lord President of Wales [1535-1543].[2]
Isabella's son, Rowland Lee, who d. 24 Jan 1542/43, is notable for several reasons, the first being that he supposedly m. Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. According to one source "He was instituted to the vicarage of S. Sepulchre London 19 Aug. 1532, and on 14 Nov. in that year privately married Henry VIII. to Anne Boleyn at the nunnery of Sopewell by S. Alban's."[3] His DNB entry shows the event and its date differently, noting "From 1531 to 1534 Lee was constantly employed in the king's service. He was at York at the end of April 1531. On 17 June he visited Athelney, Somerset, and on 5 July Malmesbury, 'signifying the king's pleasure in the election of new abbots' (Letters and Papers Henry VIII). On 24 Feb. 1532 he and Dr. Oliver received the surrender of the Austin Priory of the Holy Trinity, London, in July he visited the priory of Montacute, Somerset, and the abbey of Michelney, Somerset, to direct the election of a new prior and abbot (ib.) It has often been asserted that the crowning service by which Lee earned his bishopric was the celebration of the secret marriage between Henry and Anne Boleyn 'on or about the 25 Jan. 1533.' This rests on the somewhat circumstantial narrative of the catholic Nicholas Harpsfield [q. v.], in his treatise on the 'Pretended Divorce of Henry VIII' (Camden Soc. ed. pp. 234-5). Harpsfield reports an alleged conversation, in which the king only allayed Lee's fears and scruples by asserting his possession of a license from the pope. Burnet accepted the fact of his officiating, but rejected the story of his scruples, 'since he did afterwards turn over to the popish party' (Hist, of Reformation, vol. i. pt. i. p. 255, pt. ii. p. 430, Oxford edit. 1829). Rumour at the time pointed not to Lee, but to Cranmer, as the officiating minister. Cranmer, however, denied the allegation (Spanish Calendar,\o\. iv. pt. i. p. 609: cf. Letters and Papers, vi. 333)." Also of note, per DNB, "Lee's signature is appended to the document in which on 9 July 1540 the clergy declared the king's marriage with Anne Boleyn void (State Papers, i. 633)."
Over a century ago, Paul Friedman cited evidence that the couple had privately married about 25 Jan 1532/33,[4] while suggesting that a friar - not Rowland Lee - performed the marriage. Recently, David Starkey once again favors Lee as the celebrant and - more interestingly - cites good evidence there were actually 2 weddings. The first, at Dover on 14 Nov 1532 is noted by chronicler Edward Hall as 'the king upon his return [to Dover from Calais] married privily the Lady Anne Boleyn . . . which marriage was kept secret so very few knew it.' The second more traditional 'private' wedding was performed at York Place (now Whitehall) on the morning of 25 Jan 1532/33.[5] Edward Ives, also citing Hall, supposes that "it is unlikely that Nov 14 [1532] saw a formal marriage. But for Anne and Henry to abandon years of self-denial, their commitment must have been sufficiently robust to stand up in canon law - probably espousals 'de praesenti' before witnesses which if sealed by intercourse, would have been canonically valid . ."[6] Thus, Elizabeth I, b. 7 Sep 1533, was conceived after her parents were 'married' under this view of canon law.
Rowland Lee is also notable in his role as Lord President of Wales, he being "credited with having first compelled the Welsh gentry to abridge their long names, making them drop all but the last. (ellis, Letters, 3rd series, ii. 364)."[7] Or as it is more colorfully put "He it was who first abridged the names of the welsh gentry. Weaned with their numberless Ap's he ordered the last name only to be retained."[8] Thereby changing Welsh genealogy forever if that is correct.
Per his DNB entry, Lee had a brother, George, and a sister, Isabella who "married Roger Fowler of Bromehill, Norfolk, of an ancient Buckinghamshire family; by their early deaths their five sons and three daughters came under the care of Lee, who married the daughters, and divided the St. Thomas estates among his four surviving nephews, descendants of one of whom are still seated in Staffordshire (Inquisitio post mortem of Lee; letters in Record Office)."
A pedigree for 'Fowler of Llys Beddydd' is found in the 'History of Powys Fadog'.[9] Later in the same volume is a related pedigree of 'Fowler of Abey Cym Hwir and Harnage Grange'.[10] The 1619/23 Visitation for Shropshire includes a 'Fowler of Harnage Grange' pedigree that identifies both Isabella and Sir Andrew Trollope.[11] Both lines show descendants, which are summarized and extended in the FHL database 'Wales: Records Primarily of the Nobility and Gentry' (whose sources include the aforecited 'History of Powys Fadog'). The link to Sir Andrew Trollope in the database (which has quirks like children and parents with the same estimated birthdates) is http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I151199&tree=Welsh . The database is notable in that it provides the only online access to entries found in Joseph Morris' 10 Volume 'Genealogy of Shropshire'. NEHGR noted in 101:4 (Jan 1947) "In the early part of the the nineteenth century two Shrewsbury antiquaries, Joseph and George Morris, made the history and genealogy of Shropshire their life work, and Joseph Morris compiled a tremendous collection of pedigrees . . " - AFAIK it isn't published except on FHL microfilm.
Per the DNB entry for Lee, Sir Anthony was of Thornley, co. Durham. Sir Anthony's own 'old DNB' entry (1899; Vol 57, page 238)is @ http://books.google.com/books?id=M9IpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA238 .
Leo's great database includes the Roger Fowler and Isabella Lee marriage noted above, but does not show Isabella's parents (William Lee and Isabella Trolloppe) or maternal grandparent Sir Andrew, as outlined above.
Terry Booth
Chicago IL.
Footnotes
---------
[1] Yorkshire Archaeological and Topographical Journal; Vol 10 (1889); article starts p. 1, list of participants and corrected list of casulaties starts on page 28 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=6yg1HMFWPOsC&pg=PA28
[2] Sir Sidney Lee, editor; DNB; Volume 32 [Lambe-Leigh]; London; Smith Elder; 1892; page 373 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=y9cpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA373
[3] Charles Henry Cooper; Athenae Cantabrigienses: 1500-1585; page 81 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=o_c1AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA81.
[4] Paul Friedmann; Anne Boleyn (2 volumes); London; Macmillan; 1884; page ii:338 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=hEADAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA338
[5] David Starkey; Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII; Great Britain; Chatto & Windus; 2003; page 463 (documenting the secret Dover marriage) and page 475 (documenting the York Place marriage), both marriages matched to Henry's travel schedule.
[6] Eric William Ives; The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn; Blackwell Publishing; Great Britain; 2004; page 170.
[7] DNB; op.cit.
[8] Athenae Cantabrigienses; op.cit.
[9] Lloyd, William & Youde, Jacob; The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher, and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fadog, London; T Richards; 1882; Volume 3; page 366 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=jz0LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA366.
[10] Ibid.; page 409.
[11] Robert Treswell; Visitation of Shropshire 1619 & 1623; Publications of Harleian Society'; Vol 88
Sir Andrew's heir was his daughter Isabella, who m. William Lee Esq. of Morpeth, Treasurer of Berwick. Thus, novelist Anthony Trollope could not be Sir Andrew's agnate descendant, and another 'family tradition' bites the dust. It would also appear that David Trollope, included among Stow's contemporary list of those who lost their lives at Towton Field - if related at all beyond a shared last name - would more likely be a brother based on chronology.
As for the battle itself, there is a listing of participants and killed in Clement Markham's 'Battle of Towton' which corrects historian John Stowe's [1525-1625] less than accurate traditional list.[1] It was earlier noted here that death estimates varied, with 20,000 a likely number. Markham accepts 20,000 casualties as reasonable, but suggests (citing historian Polydore Vergil [1470-1555]) half were wounded/captured, not killed. He also notes (p. 22) that "All historians unite in the statement that the old nobility of England was nearly annihilated by the bloody battles and ruthless executions of the war of the Roses. But facts are opposed to this theory. Scarcely a single peerage became extinct owing to the war of the Roses [i.e. peers may have died, but most lines continued]." Even so it was a huge loss at the time.
Isabella Trollope, dau of Sir Andrew Trolloppe, m. William Lee, Treasurer of Berkshire. The couple is identified in an 'old DNB' article about their son, Rowland Lee, Bishop of Litchfield and Coventry, and Lord President of Wales [1535-1543].[2]
Isabella's son, Rowland Lee, who d. 24 Jan 1542/43, is notable for several reasons, the first being that he supposedly m. Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. According to one source "He was instituted to the vicarage of S. Sepulchre London 19 Aug. 1532, and on 14 Nov. in that year privately married Henry VIII. to Anne Boleyn at the nunnery of Sopewell by S. Alban's."[3] His DNB entry shows the event and its date differently, noting "From 1531 to 1534 Lee was constantly employed in the king's service. He was at York at the end of April 1531. On 17 June he visited Athelney, Somerset, and on 5 July Malmesbury, 'signifying the king's pleasure in the election of new abbots' (Letters and Papers Henry VIII). On 24 Feb. 1532 he and Dr. Oliver received the surrender of the Austin Priory of the Holy Trinity, London, in July he visited the priory of Montacute, Somerset, and the abbey of Michelney, Somerset, to direct the election of a new prior and abbot (ib.) It has often been asserted that the crowning service by which Lee earned his bishopric was the celebration of the secret marriage between Henry and Anne Boleyn 'on or about the 25 Jan. 1533.' This rests on the somewhat circumstantial narrative of the catholic Nicholas Harpsfield [q. v.], in his treatise on the 'Pretended Divorce of Henry VIII' (Camden Soc. ed. pp. 234-5). Harpsfield reports an alleged conversation, in which the king only allayed Lee's fears and scruples by asserting his possession of a license from the pope. Burnet accepted the fact of his officiating, but rejected the story of his scruples, 'since he did afterwards turn over to the popish party' (Hist, of Reformation, vol. i. pt. i. p. 255, pt. ii. p. 430, Oxford edit. 1829). Rumour at the time pointed not to Lee, but to Cranmer, as the officiating minister. Cranmer, however, denied the allegation (Spanish Calendar,\o\. iv. pt. i. p. 609: cf. Letters and Papers, vi. 333)." Also of note, per DNB, "Lee's signature is appended to the document in which on 9 July 1540 the clergy declared the king's marriage with Anne Boleyn void (State Papers, i. 633)."
Over a century ago, Paul Friedman cited evidence that the couple had privately married about 25 Jan 1532/33,[4] while suggesting that a friar - not Rowland Lee - performed the marriage. Recently, David Starkey once again favors Lee as the celebrant and - more interestingly - cites good evidence there were actually 2 weddings. The first, at Dover on 14 Nov 1532 is noted by chronicler Edward Hall as 'the king upon his return [to Dover from Calais] married privily the Lady Anne Boleyn . . . which marriage was kept secret so very few knew it.' The second more traditional 'private' wedding was performed at York Place (now Whitehall) on the morning of 25 Jan 1532/33.[5] Edward Ives, also citing Hall, supposes that "it is unlikely that Nov 14 [1532] saw a formal marriage. But for Anne and Henry to abandon years of self-denial, their commitment must have been sufficiently robust to stand up in canon law - probably espousals 'de praesenti' before witnesses which if sealed by intercourse, would have been canonically valid . ."[6] Thus, Elizabeth I, b. 7 Sep 1533, was conceived after her parents were 'married' under this view of canon law.
Rowland Lee is also notable in his role as Lord President of Wales, he being "credited with having first compelled the Welsh gentry to abridge their long names, making them drop all but the last. (ellis, Letters, 3rd series, ii. 364)."[7] Or as it is more colorfully put "He it was who first abridged the names of the welsh gentry. Weaned with their numberless Ap's he ordered the last name only to be retained."[8] Thereby changing Welsh genealogy forever if that is correct.
Per his DNB entry, Lee had a brother, George, and a sister, Isabella who "married Roger Fowler of Bromehill, Norfolk, of an ancient Buckinghamshire family; by their early deaths their five sons and three daughters came under the care of Lee, who married the daughters, and divided the St. Thomas estates among his four surviving nephews, descendants of one of whom are still seated in Staffordshire (Inquisitio post mortem of Lee; letters in Record Office)."
A pedigree for 'Fowler of Llys Beddydd' is found in the 'History of Powys Fadog'.[9] Later in the same volume is a related pedigree of 'Fowler of Abey Cym Hwir and Harnage Grange'.[10] The 1619/23 Visitation for Shropshire includes a 'Fowler of Harnage Grange' pedigree that identifies both Isabella and Sir Andrew Trollope.[11] Both lines show descendants, which are summarized and extended in the FHL database 'Wales: Records Primarily of the Nobility and Gentry' (whose sources include the aforecited 'History of Powys Fadog'). The link to Sir Andrew Trollope in the database (which has quirks like children and parents with the same estimated birthdates) is http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I151199&tree=Welsh . The database is notable in that it provides the only online access to entries found in Joseph Morris' 10 Volume 'Genealogy of Shropshire'. NEHGR noted in 101:4 (Jan 1947) "In the early part of the the nineteenth century two Shrewsbury antiquaries, Joseph and George Morris, made the history and genealogy of Shropshire their life work, and Joseph Morris compiled a tremendous collection of pedigrees . . " - AFAIK it isn't published except on FHL microfilm.
Per the DNB entry for Lee, Sir Anthony was of Thornley, co. Durham. Sir Anthony's own 'old DNB' entry (1899; Vol 57, page 238)is @ http://books.google.com/books?id=M9IpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA238 .
Leo's great database includes the Roger Fowler and Isabella Lee marriage noted above, but does not show Isabella's parents (William Lee and Isabella Trolloppe) or maternal grandparent Sir Andrew, as outlined above.
Terry Booth
Chicago IL.
Footnotes
---------
[1] Yorkshire Archaeological and Topographical Journal; Vol 10 (1889); article starts p. 1, list of participants and corrected list of casulaties starts on page 28 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=6yg1HMFWPOsC&pg=PA28
[2] Sir Sidney Lee, editor; DNB; Volume 32 [Lambe-Leigh]; London; Smith Elder; 1892; page 373 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=y9cpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA373
[3] Charles Henry Cooper; Athenae Cantabrigienses: 1500-1585; page 81 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=o_c1AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA81.
[4] Paul Friedmann; Anne Boleyn (2 volumes); London; Macmillan; 1884; page ii:338 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=hEADAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA338
[5] David Starkey; Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII; Great Britain; Chatto & Windus; 2003; page 463 (documenting the secret Dover marriage) and page 475 (documenting the York Place marriage), both marriages matched to Henry's travel schedule.
[6] Eric William Ives; The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn; Blackwell Publishing; Great Britain; 2004; page 170.
[7] DNB; op.cit.
[8] Athenae Cantabrigienses; op.cit.
[9] Lloyd, William & Youde, Jacob; The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher, and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fadog, London; T Richards; 1882; Volume 3; page 366 @ http://books.google.com/books?id=jz0LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA366.
[10] Ibid.; page 409.
[11] Robert Treswell; Visitation of Shropshire 1619 & 1623; Publications of Harleian Society'; Vol 88