William Cressener (1392-1454), Husband of Margaret, Lady Scrope of Bolton

[Brad Verity]

Of the many sons-in-law of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland,
surely the most obscure (followed in a close second by Sir Gilbert
Lancaster) is "William Cressoner of Sudbury, Suffolk" [CP, Vol. XI,
pg. 543], the second husband of Margaret, widowed Lady Scrope of
Bolton, sixth daughter of Earl Ralph by his 1st wife Margaret
Stafford.

Margaret's first marriage in 1413 to the 19-year-old Richard, 3rd Lord
Scrope of Bolton, was undoubtedly the result of her father's
negotiations. Lord Scrope served with Henry V at Agincourt and on
other French campaigns before his death in 1420, at the young age of
26. His lands were quickly granted in less than a month to Margaret's
half-brother Richard Nevill (future Earl of Salisbury), during the
minority of his young son Henry le Scrope, and Margaret gave a f1,000
recognizance 2 months later that she would keep Henry and his younger
brother Richard le Scrope unmarried.

Luckily the huge sum of f1,000 did not apply to her staying unmarried,
for on 5 Nov. 1427, she was pardoned f100 (or paid f100 for the pardon
- it's not clear) for marrying William Cressoner. CP provides no
biographical information on him beyond the fact that he died shortly
before 16 May 1454, when writs were issued for IPMs regarding his
lands in Norfolk, Essex, Hunts and Suffolk. Also that his son and
heir Alexander was given seisin of his lands in Essex and Suffolk on 5
Nov. 1454.

Using the published Calendars of IPMs, plus the PRO website index, we
can fill in some blanks regarding this obscure William Cressener.

Firstly, he was born on 25 Nov. 1392, and was the son and heir of
Robert Cressener, whose 1410 IPMs for Essex, Huntingdon, and Suffolk
survive. Robert died on 9 Sept. 1410, and the Suffolk IPM returned
"William his son and heir will be 18 years of age on 25 Nov. next."

I get confused with regnal years, but believe this matches up with
William's unpublished proof of age in the PRO:

C 138/10/49 Cressener, William. Proof of age.: Suff 2 Hen V

William's father Robert seemed to be of very limited means at his 1410
death. According to his IPMs, he held only scattered lands in Essex
and Suffolk - valued in total at less than 50s. annually. He'd held
the manor of Eynesbury in Huntingdon, and the manor of Preston called
Mortimers and the manor of Netherhall in Otley, both in Suffolk, but
"long before his death he granted [them] by charter." Perhaps this
was a legal loophole, though, and Robert managed to retain the income
from those manors.

At any rate, William Cressener was certainly not wealthy, and it's
curious how this minor Suffolk gentryman managed to even cross the
path of the Northern widow of the Lord Scrope of Bolton. Sudbury is a
market town in Suffolk, and is not mentioned at all in his father's
IPM, so it's hard to determine why CP has William seated there.
Suffolk certainly seems to be the county Cressener was associated
with. Aside from Margaret, Lady Scrope of Bolton, being buried in
1463/4 in the Austin Friars church in Clare, Suffolk, the Proof of Age
shows William was born in that county.

It is certainly William who is mentioned in the following PRO
document:

C 143/448/21 William Cressenere, Esq., Robert Cavendyssh, John Coo,
Thomas Heygham, and Henry Trace to grant their manor in Stetchworth
called Patemeres to the prior and convent of Ely, retaining land in
Thriplow. Camb. 17 HENRY VI.

Margaret's two Scrope sons by her first husband went on to quite
successful political careers, Henry as the 4th Lord Scrope of Bolton,
and Richard as Bishop of Carlisle. CP does not mention if William's
heir Alexander Cressener was his son by Margaret, or by a previous
wife (William turned 35 in 1427, the year Margaret was pardoned for
marrying him). We can only be sure that Alexander was at least age 21
in 1454 when he inherited William's lands. William's unpublished IPM
would probably help determine if Margaret was Alexander's mother.

C 139/152/16 Cressener, William, esq: Hunts, Essex, Suff 32 Hen VI

Alexander, in turn, apparently left issue, though the inheritance
seems vague:

C 1/490/25 Edward, son of Alexander Cressener. v. John Cressener,
knight, cousin and heir of the said Alexander.: Annuity charged by the
said Alexander on lands in Boxted called `Mores' and `Smokell,' to
commence after the death of Raufe Cressener, his brother.: Suffolk.

Was Raufe Cressener the brother of Alexander and son of Margaret?
Could he have been named for his grandfather Ralph Nevill, Earl of
Westmorland?

The IPMs of Alexander Cressener and his kinsman and heir Sir John
Cressener probably shed some light:

E 150/610/7 Cressener, Alexander: Suffolk 13 Henry VII

C 142/82/87 Cressener, John, knight: Essex 30 Hen. VIII.

At any rate, it's interesting to see how the blood of the Nevill Earls
of Westmorland and Stafford Earls of Stafford could flow in two
generations to a minor Suffolk gentry family.

Cheers, ----Brad

[Reedpcgen]

Brad,

I have Copinger's _The Manors of Suffolk_ vol. 1 here, and it says on p. 36,
concerning the manor of Mores, in Boxtead,

"William Cressener...died in 1454 and was succeeded by his third son Ralph
Cressener and he by Robert Cressener and he by Alexander Cressener the brother
of Ralph. Alexander Cressener died in 1497 and was succeeded by his son and
heir John Cressener, who in 1542 sold the manor to Richard Poley."

On p. 188, concerning Mortimer's manor, in Preston (from Sir William de
Mortimer of Attleburgh):

[Sir John de Mortimer, son and heir of Sir William (d. 1297)] "A daughter of
the last named Mortimer [John] seems to have married a Ferrars, and a daughter,
issue of such marriage, married Robert Cressener who died in 1415 seised of
this manor and the Manor of Otley. The manor then passed to Robert's son and
heir William Cressener who died in 1454, when it passed to his son and heir
Alexander who died in 1498 when itpassed to his grandson and heir John
Cressener son and heir of Sir John Cressener... He seems to have been the last
Cressener holder of the manor for he died in 1556 and before this date we find
William Poley who died 31 August this same year seised....

Paul

[Reedpcgen]

A more detailed account of this Cressener family and descendants is given in
Morant's _History of Essex_ 2:266, which states that William Cressener (d.
1454) married Margaret Nevill (d. 1461) and that she was mother of his son and
heir Alexander, who was aged 23 at his father's death and became Knight of the
Bath. The Visitation of Essex [HS 14] also states that Alexander is son of
Margaret.

The extended ancestry [under the misreading Cressovere] is given in Pedigrees
From the Plea Rolls, concerning the manor of Ikelyngham, Suffolk, from a fine
levied 10 Edward II by William de la Cressovere of Ikelyngham and his wife
Petronilla:

1. William = Petronilla
2. John
3. Walter
4. Robert
5. William
6. Alexander, the plaintiff, De Banco, Hillary 5 Edw. IV, m. 129.

Paul

[Brad Verity]

Post by Reedpcgen
I have Copinger's _The Manors of Suffolk_ vol. 1 here, and it says on p. 36,
concerning the manor of Mores, in Boxtead,
"William Cressener...died in 1454 and was succeeded by his third son Ralph
Cressener and he by Robert Cressener and he by Alexander Cressener the brother
of Ralph. Alexander Cressener died in 1497 and was succeeded by his son and
heir John Cressener, who in 1542 sold the manor to Richard Poley."

Thanks so much for looking this up. My regnal-year-adverse brain
didn't put together that Alexander died in 1497 - that would
definitely make him son of Margaret, Lady Scrope of Bolton, who was
married to William Cressener by 1427.

Amazing that these obscure Suffolk Cresseners were first cousins to
Edward IV and Richard III!!

But I don't think Copinger was correct in making John Cressener the
son of Alexander, though the PRO document does indicate he was
Alexander's heir.

Post by Reedpcgen
On p. 188, concerning Mortimer's manor, in Preston (from Sir William de
[Sir John de Mortimer, son and heir of Sir William (d. 1297)] "A daughter of
the last named Mortimer [John] seems to have married a Ferrars, and a daughter,
issue of such marriage, married Robert Cressener who died in 1415 seised of
this manor and the Manor of Otley.

Very good, though Copinger got the death date of Robert Cressener
incorrect - the IPM shows it was 1410.

It's also good to have an indication of the identity of William's
mother.

Post by Reedpcgen
The manor then passed to Robert's son and
heir William Cressener who died in 1454, when it passed to his son and heir
Alexander who died in 1498 when itpassed to his grandson and heir John
Cressener son and heir of Sir John Cressener...

Now Copinger comes a little closer to the PRO document in which Edward
Cressener, son of Alexander brought suit against Sir John Cressener,
heir of Alexander. But Sir John is described in it as "cousin", not
"grandson", of Alexander. Was that a common substitute in the early
16th century?

Post by Reedpcgen
He seems to have been the last
Cressener holder of the manor for he died in 1556 and before this date we find
William Poley who died 31 August this same year seised....

A George Cressener was a very successful diplomat and ambassador in
the late 1700s (his 1781 funeral cantata was possibly composed by
Beethoven), so the family may have continued on without the Suffolk
lands.

Thanks and Cheers, ---Brad

[John Higgins]

An additional note on the Cresseners - and a possible CP error?

According to Charles P. Hampson in "The Book of the Radclyffes" (1940), the
wife of Alexander Cressener was Alycia Radclyffe, the sister (or perhaps
half-sister) of Sir John Radclyffe (d. 1461 at the battle of Towton). This
Sir John was the grandfather of Sir Robert Radclyffe, craeted 1st earl of
Sussex in 1529.

Hampson (p. 44) has this to say about the Radclyffe/Cressener marriage:

" Alycia Radclyffe, married Sir Alexander Cressenor [sic] of Alphamstone in
Essex. Their son Thomas was one of those apprehended with Sir Robert
radclyffe, his uncle, as partisans of Perkin warbeck, but he was pardoned.
The Cressenors were an ancient family in Norfolk and Essex, who had ennobled
their blood by marriage with the Mortimers of Attleburgh and the Ferrers.
Sir Alexander was the eldest son of William Cressenor of Hawkendon and his
wife Margaret, daughter of Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, and widow
of Richard, Lord Scrope of Bolton. Sir Alexander was Sheriff of Norfolk and
Suffolk during the reign of Edward IV, at whose coronation he was made a
Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. The Cressenors bore on
their coat armour six horse shoes, the original arms of Ferrers."

Alycia Radclyffe is called Celia in the Cressener pedigree in Berry's Essex
Pedigrees, which is appended to the Harleian Society ediiton of the
visitations of Essex (HSP 14).

I say "sister or perhaps half-sister" because Hampson says she is daughter
of Sir John Radclyffe, KG (d. 1440) and his wife Katherine Burnell. This
couple is identified in CP 5:484-5 as the parents of the younger Sir John
who d. at Towton. But Hampson says Katherine Burnell was the 2nd wife of
the earlier Sir John and the younger Sir John was son of the 1st wife
Cecilia, one of the three daughters of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh by
his wife Mary Parke and widow of Sir John Herling of East Herling, Norfolk.
His mother Cecilia was also half-sister to "the great Sir John Falstolf" (of
Shakespeare fame), through her mother's third marriage to John Fastolf of
Caistor near Yarmouth (her third husband was cousin to her 2nd second
husband).

Did CP perhaps miss the first marriage of Sir John Radclyffe, KG, to Cecilia
Mortimer? Can anyone shed any light on this?

John Higgins

[Brad Verity]

Post by John Higgins
" Alycia Radclyffe, married Sir Alexander Cressenor [sic] of Alphamstone in
Essex. Their son Thomas was one of those apprehended with Sir Robert
radclyffe, his uncle, as partisans of Perkin warbeck, but he was pardoned.

Thanks for this information, John. I was wondering how the Cresseners
stood in the War of the Roses, and it seems they were staunch
Yorkists, as would be expected of first cousins to Edward IV and
Richard III.

Post by John Higgins
The Cressenors were an ancient family in Norfolk and Essex, who had ennobled
their blood by marriage with the Mortimers of Attleburgh and the Ferrers.
Sir Alexander was the eldest son of William Cressenor of Hawkendon and his
wife Margaret, daughter of Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, and widow
of Richard, Lord Scrope of Bolton. Sir Alexander was Sheriff of Norfolk and
Suffolk during the reign of Edward IV, at whose coronation he was made a
Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. The Cressenors bore on
their coat armour six horse shoes, the original arms of Ferrers."

So Alexander did benefit from his kinship to the Yorkist kings.
Strange that he was made a KB, yet was not styled or designated as a
knight at his death. I still need to check the Chancery Rolls of
Edward IV's reign, which would confirm if Alexander was indeed sheriff
of Norfolk and Suffolk.

Post by John Higgins
Alycia Radclyffe is called Celia in the Cressener pedigree in Berry's Essex
Pedigrees, which is appended to the Harleian Society ediiton of the
visitations of Essex (HSP 14).

She is called Cecily in two IPMs of Alexander. His 1498 IPMs and
those of his daughter-in-law Anne Knevett, who died the year before
him and was widow of his eldest son John, also reveal that John was
killed at Bosworth.

It's great to know which family Cecily was from.

Post by John Higgins
I say "sister or perhaps half-sister" because Hampson says she is daughter
of Sir John Radclyffe, KG (d. 1440) and his wife Katherine Burnell. This
couple is identified in CP 5:484-5 as the parents of the younger Sir John
who d. at Towton. But Hampson says Katherine Burnell was the 2nd wife of
the earlier Sir John and the younger Sir John was son of the 1st wife
Cecilia, one of the three daughters of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh by
his wife Mary Parke and widow of Sir John Herling of East Herling, Norfolk.

Were these Mortimers of Attleburgh seated in Essex? I wonder if it
was to this family that Sir Robert Mortimer "of Mortimer's Hall",
Essex, husband of Isabel, eldest daughter of John Howard, 1st Duke of
Norfolk (discussed in another newsgroup thread), belonged?

Post by John Higgins
His mother Cecilia was also half-sister to "the great Sir John Falstolf" (of
Shakespeare fame), through her mother's third marriage to John Fastolf of
Caistor near Yarmouth (her third husband was cousin to her 2nd second
husband).
Did CP perhaps miss the first marriage of Sir John Radclyffe, KG, to Cecilia
Mortimer? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Wish I could be of more help to you here, but thank you for sharing
the info on the Cresseners from Hampson and from Berry's Essex
Pedigrees.

Cheers, --------Brad

[Chris Phillips]

Post by John Higgins
I say "sister or perhaps half-sister" because Hampson says she is daughter
of Sir John Radclyffe, KG (d. 1440) and his wife Katherine Burnell. This
couple is identified in CP 5:484-5 as the parents of the younger Sir John
who d. at Towton. But Hampson says Katherine Burnell was the 2nd wife of
the earlier Sir John and the younger Sir John was son of the 1st wife
Cecilia, one of the three daughters of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh by
his wife Mary Parke and widow of Sir John Herling of East Herling, Norfolk.
His mother Cecilia was also half-sister to "the great Sir John Falstolf" (of
Shakespeare fame), through her mother's third marriage to John Fastolf of
Caistor near Yarmouth (her third husband was cousin to her 2nd second
husband).
Did CP perhaps miss the first marriage of Sir John Radclyffe, KG, to Cecilia
Mortimer? Can anyone shed any light on this?

CP does appear to support this adequately by citing in two footnotes the
inquisitions post mortem of Katherine (p. 485, note a) and the younger John
Radcliffe (note d). Both these identify the younger John as the son and heir
of John and Katherine.

Chris Phillips

[John Higgins]

See note at end....

John Higgins

"Who begot whom is a most amusing kind of hunting" - Horace Walpole

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: William Cressener (1392-1454), Husband of Margaret, Lady
Scrope of Bolton

Post by John Higgins
I say "sister or perhaps half-sister" because Hampson says she

is daughter

Post by John Higgins
of Sir John Radclyffe, KG (d. 1440) and his wife Katherine

Burnell. This

Post by John Higgins
couple is identified in CP 5:484-5 as the parents of the

younger Sir John

Post by John Higgins
who d. at Towton. But Hampson says Katherine Burnell was the

2nd wife of

Post by John Higgins
the earlier Sir John and the younger Sir John was son of the 1st wife
Cecilia, one of the three daughters of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh

by

Post by John Higgins
his wife Mary Parke and widow of Sir John Herling of East Herling,

Norfolk.

Post by John Higgins
His mother Cecilia was also half-sister to "the great Sir John Falstolf"

(of

Post by John Higgins
Shakespeare fame), through her mother's third marriage to John

Fastolf of

Post by John Higgins
Caistor near Yarmouth (her third husband was cousin to her 2nd second
husband).
Did CP perhaps miss the first marriage of Sir John Radclyffe, KG, to

Cecilia

Post by John Higgins
Mortimer? Can anyone shed any light on this?

CP does appear to support this adequately by citing in two footnotes the
inquisitions post mortem of Katherine (p. 485, note a) and the
younger John
Radcliffe (note d). Both these identify the younger John as the son and heir
of John and Katherine.
Chris Phillips

I see that the IPMs cited by CP seem to support that the younger Sir John
Radcliffe was son of the elder Sir John Radcliffe by Katherine Burnell. But
then how did the Attleburgh estate get to, and continue in, the Radcliffe
family? As best I can tell (as least as stated by Hampson), Attelburgh (or
Attleborough) came to the elder Sir John in right of his 1st wife Cecilia,
one of three daughters and heiresses of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh.
If the elder Sir John was in fact married 1st to Cecilia and had no issue by
her, would the estate have gone the issue of his 2nd marriage in preference
to the issue (if any) of her sisters?

[Tim Powys-Lybbe]

Post by John Higgins
I see that the IPMs cited by CP seem to support that the younger Sir John
Radcliffe was son of the elder Sir John Radcliffe by Katherine Burnell. But
then how did the Attleburgh estate get to, and continue in, the Radcliffe
family? As best I can tell (as least as stated by Hampson), Attelburgh (or
Attleborough) came to the elder Sir John in right of his 1st wife Cecilia,
one of three daughters and heiresses of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh.
If the elder Sir John was in fact married 1st to Cecilia and had no issue by
her, would the estate have gone the issue of his 2nd marriage in preference
to the issue (if any) of her sisters?

Usually the marriage settlements from the wife's parents are to the
heirs of the body of the marrying couple and if none the remainder is
the right heir of the wife's parents. In other words the estate goes
back to the family if the daughter has no surviving children.

But some marriage settlements might have been written differently.

[Chris Phillips]

Post by John Higgins
I see that the IPMs cited by CP seem to support that the younger Sir John
Radcliffe was son of the elder Sir John Radcliffe by Katherine Burnell.

But

Post by John Higgins
then how did the Attleburgh estate get to, and continue in, the Radcliffe
family? As best I can tell (as least as stated by Hampson), Attelburgh (or
Attleborough) came to the elder Sir John in right of his 1st wife Cecilia,
one of three daughters and heiresses of Sir Thomas Mortimer of Attleburgh.
If the elder Sir John was in fact married 1st to Cecilia and had no issue by
her, would the estate have gone the issue of his 2nd marriage in preference
to the issue (if any) of her sisters?

I see that the answer to this question is actually given in the article on
Sir John Radcliffe in the History of Parliament, which says that Cecily
settled Attleborough on her husband and his heirs (citing for the paragraph
Paston Letters, ed. Gairdner, i 454-6; Blomefield, Norfolk i 511-15;
CP25(1)168/182/37, 290/60/06, 62; VCH Cambs v. 113, as well as the Complete
Peerage).

So, as Tim said, occasionally a settlement could be made which would lead to
lands passing to the husband's heirs by another wife.

Chris Phillips

[John Higgins]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: William Cressener (1392-1454), Husband of Margaret, Lady
Scrope of Bolton

Post by John Higgins
I see that the IPMs cited by CP seem to support that the

younger Sir John

Post by John Higgins
Radcliffe was son of the elder Sir John Radcliffe by Katherine Burnell.

But

Post by John Higgins
then how did the Attleburgh estate get to, and continue in, the

Radcliffe

Post by John Higgins
family? As best I can tell (as least as stated by Hampson), Attelburgh

(or

Post by John Higgins
Attleborough) came to the elder Sir John in right of his 1st

wife Cecilia,

Post by John Higgins
one of three daughters and heiresses of Sir Thomas Mortimer of

Attleburgh.

Post by John Higgins
If the elder Sir John was in fact married 1st to Cecilia and

had no issue
by

Post by John Higgins
her, would the estate have gone the issue of his 2nd marriage in

preference

Post by John Higgins
to the issue (if any) of her sisters?

I see that the answer to this question is actually given in the article on
Sir John Radcliffe in the History of Parliament, which says that Cecily
settled Attleborough on her husband and his heirs (citing for the paragraph
Paston Letters, ed. Gairdner, i 454-6; Blomefield, Norfolk i 511-15;
CP25(1)168/182/37, 290/60/06, 62; VCH Cambs v. 113, as well as
the Complete
Peerage).
So, as Tim said, occasionally a settlement could be made which
would lead to
lands passing to the husband's heirs by another wife.
Chris Phillips

Thanks to Tim and Chris for the information on the settlment of
Attleburgh/Attleborough. It sounds like HOP does at least confirm that the
elder Sir John Radcliffe did marry twice, although CP does not note
Katherine Burnell as a 2nd wife. Correct?

John Higgins

"Who begot whom is a most amusing kind of hunting" - Horace Walpole

[Chris Phillips]

Post by John Higgins
Thanks to Tim and Chris for the information on the settlment of
Attleburgh/Attleborough. It sounds like HOP does at least confirm that the
elder Sir John Radcliffe did marry twice, although CP does not note
Katherine Burnell as a 2nd wife. Correct?

Yes, HOP does give his two marriages, firstly "?in 1405" to Cecily Mortimer
and secondly before June 1426 to Katherine Burnell.

CP does mention Sir John Radcliff's marriage to Cecily in its article on
Mortimer of Attleborough [vol. 9, p. 250], but places the marriage in 1411.

Chris Phillips

[Tim Powys-Lybbe]

Post by Chris Phillips

Post by John Higgins
Thanks to Tim and Chris for the information on the settlment of
Attleburgh/Attleborough. It sounds like HOP does at least confirm
that the elder Sir John Radcliffe did marry twice, although CP does
not note Katherine Burnell as a 2nd wife. Correct?

Yes, HOP does give his two marriages, firstly "?in 1405" to Cecily Mortimer
and secondly before June 1426 to Katherine Burnell.
CP does mention Sir John Radcliff's marriage to Cecily in its article on
Mortimer of Attleborough [vol. 9, p. 250], but places the marriage in 1411.

Thank for that one on Cicely = John. There are three further CP
references for John Radcliffe and Katherine Burnell:

(1) Vol II, p. 435, note (f) for Katherine's 1st marriage to "Sir John
Ratcliffe, whose descendants, the Earls of Sussex, described
themselves Barons Burnell and 2ndly, bef 1421,, as his first wife,
John (Talbot), Earl of Shrewsbury".

This is corrected in Vol XIV, p. 126, where it says delete the
Shrewsbury marriage.

(2) Vol V, pp. 484-5, which says, paraphrasing, Elizabeth FitzWalter m.
John Radcliffe, son and heir of Sir John Radcliffe KG (who d.
1440-1) by Katherine, 2nd da. and coh. of Sir Edward Burnell.

(3) Vol XI, p. 704, note (e) where it is said that Katharine never
married John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury, that she m. some time
before 1430, as his second wife, Sir John Radcliffe who d. in 1440/1
and she d. in 1452 and that the information in Vol II, note (f)
needs correction.

[Chris Phillips]

Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
(3) Vol XI, p. 704, note (e) where it is said that Katharine never
married John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury, that she m. some time
before 1430, as his second wife, Sir John Radcliffe who d. in 1440/1
and she d. in 1452 and that the information in Vol II, note (f)
needs correction.

Thanks for pointing that out. HOP improves on that 1430 date, placing the
marriage before June 1426, apparently from the start of the dispute between
Radcliffe and William, Lord Lovell, over the Burnell estates. It also says
that his first wife, Cecily, had died at Bordeaux in 1423, and that his
marriage to Katherine probably took place after his return to England in
1425.

The date suggested tentatively for his marriage to Cecily, 1405, comes from
his appearance together with Cecily's half-brother, Sir John Fastolf, in
December 1405, when they provided securities for men from Attleborough.

Chris Phillips

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Brad Verity
Of the many sons-in-law of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland,
surely the most obscure (followed in a close second by Sir Gilbert
Lancaster) is "William Cressoner of Sudbury, Suffolk" [CP, Vol. XI,
pg. 543], the second husband of Margaret, widowed Lady Scrope of
Bolton, sixth daughter of Earl Ralph by his 1st wife Margaret
Stafford.

I only have 5 daughters by Margaret Stafford, obviously missing one. Could
someone post a list for me?

[Peter Stewart]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Brad Verity
Of the many sons-in-law of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland,
surely the most obscure (followed in a close second by Sir Gilbert
Lancaster) is "William Cressoner of Sudbury, Suffolk" [CP, Vol. XI,
pg. 543], the second husband of Margaret, widowed Lady Scrope of
Bolton, sixth daughter of Earl Ralph by his 1st wife Margaret
Stafford.

I only have 5 daughters by Margaret Stafford, obviously missing one. Could
someone post a list for me?

I think you may be missing two, perhaps those who remained unmarried.

The seven daughters I have seen ascribed to his first marriage (their
order of birth unknown to me) are:

1. Mary (or Maud), wife of Piers, lord Mauley
2. Philippa, wife of Thomas, lord Dacre
3. Alice, wife first of Sir Thomas Grey of Heton & secondly of Sir
Gilbert Lancaster
4. Margaret, wife first of Richard, lord Scrope of Bolton & secondly
of William Cressoner
5. Anne, wife of Sir Gilbert Umfraville
6. Elizabeth, a nun at the Minories convent, London
7. Anastasia

Peter Stewart

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Peter Stewart

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Brad Verity
Of the many sons-in-law of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland,
surely the most obscure (followed in a close second by Sir Gilbert
Lancaster) is "William Cressoner of Sudbury, Suffolk" [CP, Vol. XI,
pg. 543], the second husband of Margaret, widowed Lady Scrope of
Bolton, sixth daughter of Earl Ralph by his 1st wife Margaret
Stafford.

I only have 5 daughters by Margaret Stafford, obviously missing one.
Could someone post a list for me?

I think you may be missing two, perhaps those who remained unmarried.

ta, yes I had missed the unmarried ones

[Le Bateman]

Does anyone have the list of these children from the marriage of Margaret
Neville and William Cressoner.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <***@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:15 PM
Subject: William Cressener (1392-1454), Husband of Margaret, Lady Scrope of
Bolton


Of the many sons-in-law of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland,
surely the most obscure (followed in a close second by Sir Gilbert
Lancaster) is "William Cressoner of Sudbury, Suffolk" [CP, Vol. XI,
pg. 543], the second husband of Margaret, widowed Lady Scrope of
Bolton, sixth daughter of Earl Ralph by his 1st wife Margaret
Stafford.

Margaret's first marriage in 1413 to the 19-year-old Richard, 3rd Lord
Scrope of Bolton, was undoubtedly the result of her father's
negotiations. Lord Scrope served with Henry V at Agincourt and on
other French campaigns before his death in 1420, at the young age of
26. His lands were quickly granted in less than a month to Margaret's
half-brother Richard Nevill (future Earl of Salisbury), during the
minority of his young son Henry le Scrope, and Margaret gave a f1,000
recognizance 2 months later that she would keep Henry and his younger
brother Richard le Scrope unmarried.

Luckily the huge sum of f1,000 did not apply to her staying unmarried,
for on 5 Nov. 1427, she was pardoned f100 (or paid f100 for the pardon
- it's not clear) for marrying William Cressoner. CP provides no
biographical information on him beyond the fact that he died shortly
before 16 May 1454, when writs were issued for IPMs regarding his
lands in Norfolk, Essex, Hunts and Suffolk. Also that his son and
heir Alexander was given seisin of his lands in Essex and Suffolk on 5
Nov. 1454.

Using the published Calendars of IPMs, plus the PRO website index, we
can fill in some blanks regarding this obscure William Cressener.

Firstly, he was born on 25 Nov. 1392, and was the son and heir of
Robert Cressener, whose 1410 IPMs for Essex, Huntingdon, and Suffolk
survive. Robert died on 9 Sept. 1410, and the Suffolk IPM returned
"William his son and heir will be 18 years of age on 25 Nov. next."

I get confused with regnal years, but believe this matches up with
William's unpublished proof of age in the PRO:

C 138/10/49 Cressener, William. Proof of age.: Suff 2 Hen V

William's father Robert seemed to be of very limited means at his 1410
death. According to his IPMs, he held only scattered lands in Essex
and Suffolk - valued in total at less than 50s. annually. He'd held
the manor of Eynesbury in Huntingdon, and the manor of Preston called
Mortimers and the manor of Netherhall in Otley, both in Suffolk, but
"long before his death he granted [them] by charter." Perhaps this
was a legal loophole, though, and Robert managed to retain the income
from those manors.

At any rate, William Cressener was certainly not wealthy, and it's
curious how this minor Suffolk gentryman managed to even cross the
path of the Northern widow of the Lord Scrope of Bolton. Sudbury is a
market town in Suffolk, and is not mentioned at all in his father's
IPM, so it's hard to determine why CP has William seated there.
Suffolk certainly seems to be the county Cressener was associated
with. Aside from Margaret, Lady Scrope of Bolton, being buried in
1463/4 in the Austin Friars church in Clare, Suffolk, the Proof of Age
shows William was born in that county.

It is certainly William who is mentioned in the following PRO
document:

C 143/448/21 William Cressenere, Esq., Robert Cavendyssh, John Coo,
Thomas Heygham, and Henry Trace to grant their manor in Stetchworth
called Patemeres to the prior and convent of Ely, retaining land in
Thriplow. Camb. 17 HENRY VI.

Margaret's two Scrope sons by her first husband went on to quite
successful political careers, Henry as the 4th Lord Scrope of Bolton,
and Richard as Bishop of Carlisle. CP does not mention if William's
heir Alexander Cressener was his son by Margaret, or by a previous
wife (William turned 35 in 1427, the year Margaret was pardoned for
marrying him). We can only be sure that Alexander was at least age 21
in 1454 when he inherited William's lands. William's unpublished IPM
would probably help determine if Margaret was Alexander's mother.

C 139/152/16 Cressener, William, esq: Hunts, Essex, Suff 32 Hen VI

Alexander, in turn, apparently left issue, though the inheritance
seems vague:

C 1/490/25 Edward, son of Alexander Cressener. v. John Cressener,
knight, cousin and heir of the said Alexander.: Annuity charged by the
said Alexander on lands in Boxted called `Mores' and `Smokell,' to
commence after the death of Raufe Cressener, his brother.: Suffolk.

Was Raufe Cressener the brother of Alexander and son of Margaret?
Could he have been named for his grandfather Ralph Nevill, Earl of
Westmorland?

The IPMs of Alexander Cressener and his kinsman and heir Sir John
Cressener probably shed some light:

E 150/610/7 Cressener, Alexander: Suffolk 13 Henry VII

C 142/82/87 Cressener, John, knight: Essex 30 Hen. VIII.

At any rate, it's interesting to see how the blood of the Nevill Earls
of Westmorland and Stafford Earls of Stafford could flow in two
generations to a minor Suffolk gentry family.

Cheers, ----Brad

[Brad Verity]

Post by Le Bateman
Does anyone have the list of these children from the marriage of Margaret
Neville and William Cressoner.

According to the sources that Paul checked - Copinger's "Manors of
Suffolk" and Morant's "History of Essex" - there were at least three
sons of William Cressener and Margaret Nevill, Lady Scrope of Bolton:

1) Alexander Cressener, d. 1497
2) [unnamed son] Cressener
3) Ralph Cressener

Cheers, ------Brad

[taf]

I am again clarifying some things in an ancient thread, this time about the Cressener family.

Post by Brad Verity
Alexander, in turn, apparently left issue, though the inheritance
C 1/490/25 Edward, son of Alexander Cressener. v. John Cressener,
knight, cousin and heir of the said Alexander.: Annuity charged by the
said Alexander on lands in Boxted called `Mores' and `Smokell,' to
commence after the death of Raufe Cressener, his brother.: Suffolk.
Was Raufe Cressener the brother of Alexander and son of Margaret?
Could he have been named for his grandfather Ralph Nevill, Earl of
Westmorland?
The IPMs of Alexander Cressener and his kinsman and heir Sir John
E 150/610/7 Cressener, Alexander: Suffolk 13 Henry VII

This is an example of cousin meaning something different than its current usage, something more akin to kinsman, as John Cressener, "cousin" of Alexander, was his grandson. This is seen in the ipms of Alexander Cressener:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=37

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=71

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=70

(note that this last is immediately followed by that of his daughter-in-law, his grandson's mother)

Post by Brad Verity

Post by Le Bateman
Does anyone have the list of these children from the marriage of Margaret
Neville and William Cressoner.

According to the sources that Paul checked - Copinger's "Manors of
Suffolk" and Morant's "History of Essex" - there were at least three
1) Alexander Cressener, d. 1497
2) [unnamed son] Cressener
3) Ralph Cressener

The published Visitation of Yorkshire in the Years 1563 and 1564 has an addition that reads as follows (p. 279):

"William Cressenor had issue Alexander, John, & Raff. The said Alexander maryed the doter of Sir John Ratclyff of Attilborow, Norfolk, & had issu Thomas, John, Edward, William, & Jane a doughter, wyff to Robert Dymoke, Elsabeth Pryoresse at Detford, and Edyth."

The addition is not credited, but some of the other such quoted items appearing in the footnotes like this are explicitly credited as "added in a later hand" or something similar. Thomas appears in HOP.

taf

[karen sims via]

Post by taf
I am again clarifying some things in an ancient thread, this time about
the Cressener family.

Post by Brad Verity
Alexander, in turn, apparently left issue, though the inheritance
C 1/490/25 Edward, son of Alexander Cressener. v. John Cressener,
knight, cousin and heir of the said Alexander.: Annuity charged by the
said Alexander on lands in Boxted called `Mores' and `Smokell,' to
commence after the death of Raufe Cressener, his brother.: Suffolk.
Was Raufe Cressener the brother of Alexander and son of Margaret?
Could he have been named for his grandfather Ralph Nevill, Earl of
Westmorland?
The IPMs of Alexander Cressener and his kinsman and heir Sir John
E 150/610/7 Cressener, Alexander: Suffolk 13 Henry VII

This is an example of cousin meaning something different than its current
usage, something more akin to kinsman, as John Cressener, "cousin" of
Alexander, was his grandson. This is seen in the ipms of Alexander
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=37
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=71
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005603918;view=1up;seq=70
(note that this last is immediately followed by that of his
daughter-in-law, his grandson's mother)

Post by Brad Verity

Post by Le Bateman
Does anyone have the list of these children from the marriage of

Margaret

Post by Brad Verity

Post by Le Bateman
Neville and William Cressoner.

According to the sources that Paul checked - Copinger's "Manors of
Suffolk" and Morant's "History of Essex" - there were at least three
1) Alexander Cressener, d. 1497
2) [unnamed son] Cressener
3) Ralph Cressener

The published Visitation of Yorkshire in the Years 1563 and 1564 has an
"William Cressenor had issue Alexander, John, & Raff. The said Alexander
maryed the doter of Sir John Ratclyff of Attilborow, Norfolk, & had issu
Thomas, John, Edward, William, & Jane a doughter, wyff to Robert Dymoke,
Elsabeth Pryoresse at Detford, and Edyth."
The addition is not credited, but some of the other such quoted items
appearing in the footnotes like this are explicitly credited as "added in a
later hand" or something similar. Thomas appears in HOP.
taf
-------------------------------

I am sending this again,because it didn't meet the size requirement with
the will attached. Only Todd received it.

Does anyone know who Anne Cressener Kynvet's Kynvet husband was? (Todd
answered Anne Calthorpe, widow of John Cressener married Edward Knyvet, son
of WIlliam Knyvet and Joan Stafford.)

Alexander Cressener's wife Cecily, was first married to John Fynderne,
brother of Sir William Fynderne (d. 1517). from deed dated 23 Jul 1492.
Essex Review Vol 14
https://books.google.com/books?id=ETsNAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA100

This is the only reference I have found for John Fyndern, brother of
William. I looked again at Sir William Fyndern's will and haven't
identified anything relevant. Without a death date for John Fyndern, I
can't tell if it's possible for Cecily to be the mother of John Cressener.

Alexander Cressener's will is in Latin. PROB 11/10/605, proved 08 Aug 1496
I can pick out son Thomas, and daughters Anne and Dorothy, brother Ralph,
and Robert Dymoke. Todd found son Edward.

Alexander's will can be found on Ancestry here:
http://interactive.ancestry.com/5111/40611_311109-00508/887672

I will forward the will on request I tried to attach it and that didn't
work. I think it says that Cecily has a daughter Jocalia.
I assume Robert Dymoke is Sir Robert Dymoke/Dymock (2nd wife Anne Sparrow,
widow of Angell Dun) whose first wife I usually see given as Jane Cressmore.


(In the notes following the deed, the author identifies Thomas Fynderne who
married Frances Fitz Lewes, daughter of Sir Richard Fitz Lewes as the son
of Sir William Fynderne. Sir William Fyndern's will make's it quite clear
that Bridgit (who afterwards, in 1518, married Sir John Marney), daughter
of Sir William Waldgrave is his daughter-in-law, and that Frances Fitz
Lewes is married to his "sonnes son". Thomas Fynderne, the grandson, is
underage in his grandfather's will, and apparently died underage and
childless, about 1524. Frances Fitz Lewes remarried a Sir William West.
Neither Sir William Fyndern's will nor Bridgit's provides a christian name
for his son. Bridgit's (ne Waldgrave) Fynderne Marney's brass says her
husband's name was Thomas, however, a deed from 1511 describes Bridgit as
the widow of William Fynderne Esq.)

Karen

[taf]

Post by karen sims via
I will forward the will on request I tried to attach it and that didn't
work. I think it says that Cecily has a daughter Jocalia.
I assume Robert Dymoke is Sir Robert Dymoke/Dymock (2nd wife Anne Sparrow,
widow of Angell Dun) whose first wife I usually see given as Jane Cressmore.

Even better, he is 'Robert Dymoke knight' in the will (both times: "Roberti Dymmoke milite Supvis' (unclear) testimenti"; "Robertum Dymmoke militem supvisorem"), so I don't think there can be any doubt as to his identity.

taf