OT - Kate Middleton - Helena Bonham-Carter

[Leo]

BP 1938 page 1918
Gives
Joseph Asquith died in 1855
no wife(s) given, nor parents for him
|
Joseph Dixon Asquith--------also in CP XIII 409
1825-1860
|
Herbert Asquith, 1st Earl of Oxford & Asquith
1852-1928
|
Lady Helen Asquith
1887-1969
|
Raymond Henry Bonham-Carter
1929-
|
Helena Bonham-Carter
1966-

On 28 February 2011 in the "Hello" Magazine page 30, is a write up which tells that Helena Bonham-Carter and Kate Middleton share Asquith ancestors.

"The surprise connection between the two women can be traced back to the mills of Yorkshire in the early 19th century when Joseph Asquith, involved in the wooltrade, married a local girl, Esther Dixon.
"They had several children, including Helena's forebear Joseph Dixon Asquith, and a much younger sister, Mary, who is Kate's ancestor. "

By comparing Kate's Asquith ancestors with what William Addams Reitwiesner has researched, I can only think that either there are small discrepancies or else it wrong.

William Addams Reitwiesner
John Asquith
1785-1851-x-Mary
Burke's Peerage |
Joseph Asquith Joseph Asquith
died in 1855 -x-Esther Dixon (Hello contr.) 1816-1874-x-Ellen Ward
| |
Joseph Dixon Asquith Mary Asquith
1825-1860 1839- -x-John William Middleton

Mary is indeed much younger than Joseph Asquith, both have a father called Joseph
but Joseph's father a;lso Joseph died in 1855, whereas Mary's father Joseph lived from 1816 to 1874 and it seems unlikely that Joseph born in 1816 would have a son in 1825.

I think it is wrong. Can anyone enlighten me and hopefully connect both families or trace them back further in time?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

[Ian Wallace]

Well, as WAR said in the notes on his webpage:

"68 -- Asquith is too common a surname in Yorkshire for facile
assumptions about a relationship with:

Joseph Asquith (1778[in Morley, Yorks]-1855) m. Batley, Yorks, 1824,
Esther Dixon (1794-1856)
.Joseph Dixon Asquith m. Emily Willans
.HERBERT HENRY ASQUITH 1 E Oxford and Asquith (1852-1928) m1. Helen
Kelsall Melland
|.Violet Asquith m. Maurice Bonham-Carter
| .Raymond Bonham-Carter m. Elena Propper de Callejon
| .HELENA BONHAM-CARTER (b. 1966), actress
.Herbert Henry Asquith (again) m2. Emma Alice Margaret Tennant
.ELIZABETH ASQUITH (1897-1945), writer, m. Prince ANTOINE BIBESCO
.Sir ANTHONY ASQUITH (1902-1968), film director "

I would rather trust WAR than Hello magazine, there is no evidence
that the magazine have undertaken further research.

Ian
.

[Ian Wallace]

On the basis purely of a quick look at the IGI and census, this family
(assuming all the children of a John and Mary Asquith are siblings and
allowing for some infant mortality) might be the one with Mary's
father Joseph on the 1841 census:



Children of John Asquith and Mary; perhaps of Woodcroft Lane, Leeds.


John Simpson b 4 APR 1809, bap 28 MAY 1809 White Independent
Chapel(later Queen St Chapel.)

Sarah b. 12 APR 1811, bap 19 MAY 1811 White Independent Chapel

William b 2 SEP 1813, bap 12 DEC 1813 White Independent Chapel

Joseph b 20 MAY 1815, bap 26 JUN 1815 White Independent Chapel

Mary b 27 AUG 1817, bap 23 NOV 1817 White Independent Chapel

Samuel b 29 DEC 1820, bap 16 MAR 1821, White Independent Chapel

James b 10 FEB 1824, bap 18 APR 1824 White Independent Chapel

Hannah b 28 APR 1827, bap 23 SEP 1827 White Independent Chapel

The age of Mary on the 1841 census was 20, not 23 as given by WAR. The
ages are of course rounded down to the nearest five years on the 1841
census.

It may well be that the marriage of the parents was that between John
Asquith and Mary Simpson at St Peters Church, Leeds on the 30 NOV
1806. (Even if the bride and groom were non-conformists they would
have been obliged at that time to marry in the Anglican Parish
Church).

Ian.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Ian Wallace
On the basis purely of a quick look at the IGI and census, this family
(assuming all the children of a John and Mary Asquith are siblings and
allowing for some infant mortality) might be the one with Mary's
Children of John Asquith and Mary; perhaps of Woodcroft Lane, Leeds.
John Simpson b 4 APR 1809, bap 28 MAY 1809 White Independent
Chapel(later Queen St Chapel.)
Sarah b. 12 APR 1811, bap 19 MAY 1811 White Independent Chapel
William b 2 SEP 1813, bap 12 DEC 1813 White Independent Chapel
Joseph b 20 MAY 1815, bap 26 JUN 1815 White Independent Chapel
Mary b 27 AUG 1817, bap 23 NOV 1817 White Independent Chapel
Samuel b 29 DEC 1820, bap 16 MAR 1821, White Independent Chapel
James b 10 FEB 1824, bap 18 APR 1824 White Independent Chapel
Hannah b 28 APR 1827, bap 23 SEP 1827 White Independent Chapel
The age of Mary on the 1841 census was 20, not 23 as given by WAR. The
ages are of course rounded down to the nearest five years on the 1841
census.
It may well be that the marriage of the parents was that between John
Asquith and Mary Simpson at St Peters Church, Leeds on the 30 NOV
1806. (Even if the bride and groom were non-conformists they would
have been obliged at that time to marry in the Anglican Parish
Church).
Ian.

According to(my interpretation of)research by Don Asquith in California, Kate Middleton and Herbert Henry's last common ancestor is probably John Austwick (an Asquith variant name), born c.1540 (and married to Dorothy Wood c.1562), gt grandson of a John Asquith, born c.1475, Morley. If that is so, she is likley to be HH Asquith's ninth cousin, four times removed.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Ian Wallace
On the basis purely of a quick look at the IGI and census, this family
(assuming all the children of a John and Mary Asquith are siblings and
allowing for some infant mortality) might be the one with Mary's
Children of John Asquith and Mary; perhaps of Woodcroft Lane, Leeds.
John Simpson b 4 APR 1809, bap 28 MAY 1809 White Independent
Chapel(later Queen St Chapel.)
Sarah b. 12 APR 1811, bap 19 MAY 1811 White Independent Chapel
William b 2 SEP 1813, bap 12 DEC 1813 White Independent Chapel
Joseph b 20 MAY 1815, bap 26 JUN 1815 White Independent Chapel
Mary b 27 AUG 1817, bap 23 NOV 1817 White Independent Chapel
Samuel b 29 DEC 1820, bap 16 MAR 1821, White Independent Chapel
James b 10 FEB 1824, bap 18 APR 1824 White Independent Chapel
Hannah b 28 APR 1827, bap 23 SEP 1827 White Independent Chapel
The age of Mary on the 1841 census was 20, not 23 as given by WAR. The
ages are of course rounded down to the nearest five years on the 1841
census.
It may well be that the marriage of the parents was that between John
Asquith and Mary Simpson at St Peters Church, Leeds on the 30 NOV
1806. (Even if the bride and groom were non-conformists they would
have been obliged at that time to marry in the Anglican Parish
Church).
Ian.

According to(my interpretation of)research by Don Asquith in California, Kate Middleton and Herbert Henry's last common ancestor is probably John Austwick (an Asquith variant name), born c.1540 (and married to Dorothy Wood c.1562), gt grandson of a John Asquith, born c.1475, Morley. If that is so, she is likely to be HH Asquith's ninth cousin, four times removed.

Sorry, that should be grandson of John Asquith, born c.1475.

[P***@aol.com]

I have just found, through the awe-inspiring new data that chunders through
the internet, that a previously unfathomable English line of mine is
connected to Miss Middleton, the Martineaus..worthy protestant stock. I had
hoped that her paternal line of Middleton was the same as mine, but like the
gel it's too common!

pg

[Ian Wallace]

Post by P***@aol.com
I have just found, through the awe-inspiring new data that chunders through
 the internet, that a previously unfathomable English line of mine is
connected  to Miss Middleton, the Martineaus..worthy protestant stock. I had
hoped that her  paternal line of Middleton was the same as mine, but like the
gel it's too  common!
pg

I find that Harriet Martineau wanders into many pieces of non-
genealogical 19th century research I do. She seems to have known every
body worth knowing.

When I was researching lead mining in Cardiganshire some decades ago
she turned up as the second cousin of the mining entrepreneur and
engineer John Taylor. As far as I can see, her grandmother Sarah
Meadows (I assume her baptism was at the Octagon Chapel, Norwich on
22nd February 1726 and/or at St George Colgate, Norwich on 24 February
1725*) was the sister of John Taylor's grandmother Margaret Meadows
(Baptised at St George Colgate, Norwich, on 27 May 1718).

*Bearing in mind that the mother was a C of E clergyman's daughter and
the family lived in St George's parish, I would not exclude dual
Presbyterian and Anglican worship - what do you think?

[P***@aol.com]

Aha - there is my connection! Yes the Martineaus were the 'Kings' of
Norwich, the Taylors (from whom I descend twice) a recent addition to the
patriciate of that town in the late 18th early 19th century, hailed from the
Wigan area, more precisely the strangely named township of Chowbent, now
Atherton. The Taylors and Rigbys were very worthy presbyterians who, by the early
19C had moved into a more mainstream 'dissenting' religious-ness! The case
for an alliance between two apparently very different schools of religion
had previously occurred with Dr Edward Rigby's great grandfather the
celebrated Dr John Taylor whose own father had married a C of E widow. see the
link _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_(dissenting_preacher_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_(dissenting_preacher) ).
I suspect, as with Huguenots of Lyon in the 17C, that business was the
essence of the matrimonial alliances. The Lyon huguenots amongst my ancestors
certainly married the daughters of Jewish businessmen of the same economic
background - one particular one being the well-known French Jewish Lyon
family of Taizé. The dictum runs in my mind of 'Never mind the Koppel its the
money we want!"

Certainly the Rigbys and Taylors, their cousins and in-laws, once setttled
in Norwich, moved about in one of the most exciting and political spheres,
marrying into such families as the Meadows, Martineaus and beyond.

Peter

[Matthew Connolly]

No doubt there will be more articles on Kate's ancestry to come,
here's another: "Another Boleyn girl: How Kate Middleton may be
descended from Henry VIII".

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6766908/another-boleyn-girl.thtml

The Hunsdon arguments will be familiar here now, but there is the
problem that Kate's descent from the family is not yet proven,
according to WAR:

http://www.wargs.com/other/middleton.html