gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark

[david hughes]

gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------
A. Vandals

01. Anavas, King of Vandals (250)
02. Igillus, King of Vandals (275)
03. Anthyrius, King of Vandals (300)
04. Wisimar, King of Vandals (333)
05. Vitislaus, King of Vandals (350)
06. Villicinus, King of Vandals (375)
issue:
a. Radagaisus, King of Vandals (d405), fought Romans, father of
Corisco
b. Godigisclus (d406) (below)
c. Mogogiskilus (Miecislaus), invaded Gaul 406
07.Godigisclus, Vandal-King, killed in battle 406
issue:
a. Guntheric, led Vandals to Spain, founded the Vandal kingdom of
Andalusia (407) (d427)
b. Gaiseric (below)
08. Gaiseric, Vandal-King 427-477, conquered the Roman province of
North Africa & founded Vandal kingdom (429), invaded Italy and sacked
Rome (455) (d477)
=1 a Hunnish princess; =2 a Berber princess; =3 an Ostro-Gothic
princess
issue of 1:
a. Huneric (below)
issue of 2:
b. Gento [twin] (below), see note
c. Grepa [twin]
issue of 3:
d. Theodoric "The Elder", a military-officer in the service of his
uncle [mother's brother] Theodoric "The Ostro-Goth"
---------------------------------------------------------
note: descent-line of Huneric (above)
09. Huneric, Vandal-King 477-484
=1 Eudoxia, a Roman princess; =2 [name], a Visi-Gothic princess, dau
of King Teodorico I of Spain
issue of 1:
a. Hilderic (below)
issue of 2:
b. [name], father of (a) Hoamer "The Vandal Achilles" & (b) Evagus
(Euagees)
10. Hilderic, Vandal-King 523-530 deposed, d533
issue:
a. Gormund, Byzantine Governor of North Africa 534-543, father of
Hilde, wife of Valdar "The Dane"
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark
--------------------------------------------------------------------
note: descent-line of Gento (above), son of Vandal-King Gaiseric
09. Gento (above) begot of 1st wife [unknown] (a) Godagis, (b)
Gundamund, Vandal-King 486-496; & (c) Gelaris (below); &, begot of 2nd
wife [a Scythian princess] (d) Trasamund, Vandal-King 496-523
10. Gelaris, prince
issue:
a. Gelimer (below)
b. Ammata
c. Tzazo
d. Gundmer
e. Geberic, father of Gibamund, father of Solomon, royal Vandal
claimant 539-540
11. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
=1 [name]; =2 Placidia, a Byzantine princess
issue of 1:
a. Gripr
b. Hjordis (dau), 5th wife of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (below)
***
issue of 2:
c. others
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

B. Burgundians

01. Gibico (Gjuki) (Gibeche) (Gibicca), King of Burgundians, from whom
the Gibichung Dynasty derives its name
02. Gundomar, King of Burgundians
03. Gislahar[ius] (Gislhere) (Gislaire), King of Burgundians (d413)
04. Gundicar (Gundahar) (Gunther) (Gonthaire) (Gonthaires), King of
Burgundians 413-436
= Belizde [Hrothildis], co-heiress & dau of King Faramond, 1st King of
France
05. Caratene (daughter), heiress
= Gunderic (Gundeuch) (Gondioch), King of Burgundians 436-473, son of
King Chlodio (Chlodovecus), King of Franks [his 1st wife] [his 2nd
wife was sister of Ricimer, master-of-troops]
issue of 1st wife:
a. Chilperic (Hilperic), identified with Hjalprek in medieval saga,
King of Burgundians 473-486, the father of Clotilda (St), 3rd wife of
Clovis The Great, King of Franks
issue of 2nd wife:
b. Godomar [I], co-king (d486)
c. Godegisele, co-king (d501), mur by bro
d. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (below)
06.Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (above)
issue:
a. Sigismund (below)
b. Godomar [II] (below)
c. Guntheuc (dau)
=1 Clodomir of France (d524); =2 Clothaire I of France
----------------------------------------------------------------------
note: offspring of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (above)
07. Sigismund, King of Burgundians 516-523 deposed, d526 (above)
=1 Theodogoto, Ostro-Goth princess; =2/3/4 others; =5 Hjordis, Vandal
princess (above) ***
issue of 1st wife:
a. Sigeric, mur 522
b. Suavegotta (Suavegothe) (dau), wife of King Thierry I of France
issue of 2nd wife:
c. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (d523)
d. Gislahad (Gislahadus) (d523)
issue of 5th wife:
e. Sigebert (posthumous son), father of Clotswith, wife of Ragnahari,
King of the Allemania (below) ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
note: offspring of Godomar [II], King of Burgundians (above)
07. Godomar [II], King of Burgundians 523-532 deposed, d532
08. Guillebaud I (Willibald), King of Burgundians 532 & 534-8
09. Guntram, prince
issue:
a. Aletheus, Patrice of Burgundy (d616), father of Guillebaud II
(Willibald), Patrice of Bourgogne (Burgundy) (629) (d642), father of
[…]goto (dau), wife of Ardebasto, Visi-Goth prince, parents of King
Ervigio, King of Spain
b. Gondebaud, duke, Count of Meaux (571) (d584), ancestor of Gontier
(Guntharius), Count of Angers (750)
c. [name], father Gundoenus (Gondoin), fl c 635
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. the Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark

01. Siggo, obtains kingdom of Germany 357
02. Rerir
03. Waels or Welsinc [Vols /or Volsung], ancestor of the "Volsungs"
(400)
= Hjod, dau of Hrimnir
04. Sigmund
= Signy [called his half-sis in medieval saga]
05. Siegfried (Sigurd) "Fafnisbane", called "Dragon-Slayer", epic
hero, the leader of a war-band of Germans, fought Romans 469
= Brunhilda, dau of Butilin, King of Allemania [= "all-men", reference
to Germans]
issue:
a. Ragnachar (below)
b. Ricchar
c. Rignomer (d508), father of Ragnoara, wife of Pastor, a Gallo-Roman
noble
06. Ragnachar, King of Allemania (485)
= Albofleda, a Frankish princess
07. Segnius "of Allemania" (520)
issue:
a. Ragnhari (below)
b. Brunulphe, Earl of Cambresis, who, by wife, Crotechilde, an
Ostro-Goth princess, was the father of Fredegonde, the infamous queen
of King Chilperic I of France
08. Ragnahari (above), King of the Allemania (555)
= Clotswith, dau of Sigebert of Burgundy (above) ***
issue:
a. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
b. Gundswith (dau)
=1 Atanagildo, Visi-Goth King of Spain; =2 Leovigildo, Visi-Goth King
of Spain
c. Clothilde (dau)
=1 Caribert I, King of France [his 5th wife]; =2 Redwald, King of East
Anglia [his 1st wife]
09. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
10. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
issue:
a. Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (below) (630)
b. Ragnatrude, 3rd wife of King Dagobert I of France, &, mother of his
daughter Regintrude, wife of King Theodo II of Bavaria
11.Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (above) (630)
= [name], the Frisian heiress
12. Radbod, King of the Frisii, 1st husband of Auda "Djup-udga", Queen
of Denmark
13. Randver "of Denmark"
= Signy of Essex
14. Sigurd "Ring", King of Denmark 735-750
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king
15. Ragnar "Lodbrok", overlord of Scandinavia, his descendants were
called "Sons of Lodbrok" [his nickname "Lodbrok" became the dynasty's
surname] (d794)
16. Sigurd (Sigfried) "Snake-Eye", King of Denmark (d803)
17. Halfdan (d812)
18. Ragnar "The Raven", also called "Lodbrok" (d866), who is often
confused with his illustrious great-grandfather
--------------------------------------------------------------------
direct-line of descent thru above generations

01. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
[see above]
02. Hjordis (dau),
= Sigismund, King of Burgundians
03. Sigebert (posthumous son)
04. Clotswith
= Ragnahari, King of the Allemania
[note: descents from their dau, Gundswith, by both her husbands, see
above] ***
05. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
06. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
07 Ragnatrude
= King Dagobert I of France [his 3rd wife]
08.Regintrude
= King Theodo II of Bavaria
[note: another descent may be traced thru this link] ***
-------------------------------------------------------
compiled by David Hughes, ***@AOL.com

[D. Spencer Hines]

Genealogical Garbage....

DSH

"david hughes" <***@Aol.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...

| gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
| Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
| -------------------------------------------------------------
| A. Vandals
|
| 01. Anavas, King of Vandals (250)
| 02. Igillus, King of Vandals (275)
| 03. Anthyrius, King of Vandals (300)
| 04. Wisimar, King of Vandals (333)
| 05. Vitislaus, King of Vandals (350)
| 06. Villicinus, King of Vandals (375)
| issue:
| a. Radagaisus, King of Vandals (d405), fought Romans, father of
| Corisco
| b. Godigisclus (d406) (below)
| c. Mogogiskilus (Miecislaus), invaded Gaul 406
| 07.Godigisclus, Vandal-King, killed in battle 406
| issue:
| a. Guntheric, led Vandals to Spain, founded the Vandal kingdom of
| Andalusia (407) (d427)
| b. Gaiseric (below)
| 08. Gaiseric, Vandal-King 427-477, conquered the Roman province of
| North Africa & founded Vandal kingdom (429), invaded Italy and sacked
| Rome (455) (d477)
| =1 a Hunnish princess; =2 a Berber princess; =3 an Ostro-Gothic
| princess
| issue of 1:
| a. Huneric (below)
| issue of 2:
| b. Gento [twin] (below), see note
| c. Grepa [twin]
| issue of 3:
| d. Theodoric "The Elder", a military-officer in the service of his
| uncle [mother's brother] Theodoric "The Ostro-Goth"
| ---------------------------------------------------------
| note: descent-line of Huneric (above)
| 09. Huneric, Vandal-King 477-484
| =1 Eudoxia, a Roman princess; =2 [name], a Visi-Gothic princess, dau
| of King Teodorico I of Spain
| issue of 1:
| a. Hilderic (below)
| issue of 2:
| b. [name], father of (a) Hoamer "The Vandal Achilles" & (b) Evagus
| (Euagees)
| 10. Hilderic, Vandal-King 523-530 deposed, d533
| issue:
| a. Gormund, Byzantine Governor of North Africa 534-543, father of
| Hilde, wife of Valdar "The Dane"
| b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark
| --------------------------------------------------------------------
| note: descent-line of Gento (above), son of Vandal-King Gaiseric
| 09. Gento (above) begot of 1st wife [unknown] (a) Godagis, (b)
| Gundamund, Vandal-King 486-496; & (c) Gelaris (below); &, begot of 2nd
| wife [a Scythian princess] (d) Trasamund, Vandal-King 496-523
| 10. Gelaris, prince
| issue:
| a. Gelimer (below)
| b. Ammata
| c. Tzazo
| d. Gundmer
| e. Geberic, father of Gibamund, father of Solomon, royal Vandal
| claimant 539-540
| 11. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
| saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
| =1 [name]; =2 Placidia, a Byzantine princess
| issue of 1:
| a. Gripr
| b. Hjordis (dau), 5th wife of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (below)
| ***
| issue of 2:
| c. others
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
|
| B. Burgundians
|
| 01. Gibico (Gjuki) (Gibeche) (Gibicca), King of Burgundians, from whom
| the Gibichung Dynasty derives its name
| 02. Gundomar, King of Burgundians
| 03. Gislahar[ius] (Gislhere) (Gislaire), King of Burgundians (d413)
| 04. Gundicar (Gundahar) (Gunther) (Gonthaire) (Gonthaires), King of
| Burgundians 413-436
| = Belizde [Hrothildis], co-heiress & dau of King Faramond, 1st King of
| France
| 05. Caratene (daughter), heiress
| = Gunderic (Gundeuch) (Gondioch), King of Burgundians 436-473, son of
| King Chlodio (Chlodovecus), King of Franks [his 1st wife] [his 2nd
| wife was sister of Ricimer, master-of-troops]
| issue of 1st wife:
| a. Chilperic (Hilperic), identified with Hjalprek in medieval saga,
| King of Burgundians 473-486, the father of Clotilda (St), 3rd wife of
| Clovis The Great, King of Franks
| issue of 2nd wife:
| b. Godomar [I], co-king (d486)
| c. Godegisele, co-king (d501), mur by bro
| d. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (below)
| 06.Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (above)
| issue:
| a. Sigismund (below)
| b. Godomar [II] (below)
| c. Guntheuc (dau)
| =1 Clodomir of France (d524); =2 Clothaire I of France
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------
| note: offspring of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (above)
| 07. Sigismund, King of Burgundians 516-523 deposed, d526 (above)
| =1 Theodogoto, Ostro-Goth princess; =2/3/4 others; =5 Hjordis, Vandal
| princess (above) ***
| issue of 1st wife:
| a. Sigeric, mur 522
| b. Suavegotta (Suavegothe) (dau), wife of King Thierry I of France
| issue of 2nd wife:
| c. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (d523)
| d. Gislahad (Gislahadus) (d523)
| issue of 5th wife:
| e. Sigebert (posthumous son), father of Clotswith, wife of Ragnahari,
| King of the Allemania (below) ***
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
| note: offspring of Godomar [II], King of Burgundians (above)
| 07. Godomar [II], King of Burgundians 523-532 deposed, d532
| 08. Guillebaud I (Willibald), King of Burgundians 532 & 534-8
| 09. Guntram, prince
| issue:
| a. Aletheus, Patrice of Burgundy (d616), father of Guillebaud II
| (Willibald), Patrice of Bourgogne (Burgundy) (629) (d642), father of
| [.]goto (dau), wife of Ardebasto, Visi-Goth prince, parents of King
| Ervigio, King of Spain
| b. Gondebaud, duke, Count of Meaux (571) (d584), ancestor of Gontier
| (Guntharius), Count of Angers (750)
| c. [name], father Gundoenus (Gondoin), fl c 635
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
| C. the Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
|
| 01. Siggo, obtains kingdom of Germany 357
| 02. Rerir
| 03. Waels or Welsinc [Vols /or Volsung], ancestor of the "Volsungs"
| (400)
| = Hjod, dau of Hrimnir
| 04. Sigmund
| = Signy [called his half-sis in medieval saga]
| 05. Siegfried (Sigurd) "Fafnisbane", called "Dragon-Slayer", epic
| hero, the leader of a war-band of Germans, fought Romans 469
| = Brunhilda, dau of Butilin, King of Allemania [= "all-men", reference
| to Germans]
| issue:
| a. Ragnachar (below)
| b. Ricchar
| c. Rignomer (d508), father of Ragnoara, wife of Pastor, a Gallo-Roman
| noble
| 06. Ragnachar, King of Allemania (485)
| = Albofleda, a Frankish princess
| 07. Segnius "of Allemania" (520)
| issue:
| a. Ragnhari (below)
| b. Brunulphe, Earl of Cambresis, who, by wife, Crotechilde, an
| Ostro-Goth princess, was the father of Fredegonde, the infamous queen
| of King Chilperic I of France
| 08. Ragnahari (above), King of the Allemania (555)
| = Clotswith, dau of Sigebert of Burgundy (above) ***
| issue:
| a. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
| b. Gundswith (dau)
| =1 Atanagildo, Visi-Goth King of Spain; =2 Leovigildo, Visi-Goth King
| of Spain
| c. Clothilde (dau)
| =1 Caribert I, King of France [his 5th wife]; =2 Redwald, King of East
| Anglia [his 1st wife]
| 09. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
| 10. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
| issue:
| a. Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (below) (630)
| b. Ragnatrude, 3rd wife of King Dagobert I of France, &, mother of his
| daughter Regintrude, wife of King Theodo II of Bavaria
| 11.Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (above) (630)
| = [name], the Frisian heiress
| 12. Radbod, King of the Frisii, 1st husband of Auda "Djup-udga", Queen
| of Denmark
| 13. Randver "of Denmark"
| = Signy of Essex
| 14. Sigurd "Ring", King of Denmark 735-750
| = Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king
| 15. Ragnar "Lodbrok", overlord of Scandinavia, his descendants were
| called "Sons of Lodbrok" [his nickname "Lodbrok" became the dynasty's
| surname] (d794)
| 16. Sigurd (Sigfried) "Snake-Eye", King of Denmark (d803)
| 17. Halfdan (d812)
| 18. Ragnar "The Raven", also called "Lodbrok" (d866), who is often
| confused with his illustrious great-grandfather
| --------------------------------------------------------------------
| direct-line of descent thru above generations
|
| 01. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
| saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
| [see above]
| 02. Hjordis (dau),
| = Sigismund, King of Burgundians
| 03. Sigebert (posthumous son)
| 04. Clotswith
| = Ragnahari, King of the Allemania
| [note: descents from their dau, Gundswith, by both her husbands, see
| above] ***
| 05. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
| 06. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
| 07 Ragnatrude
| = King Dagobert I of France [his 3rd wife]
| 08.Regintrude
| = King Theodo II of Bavaria
| [note: another descent may be traced thru this link] ***
| -------------------------------------------------------
| compiled by David Hughes, ***@AOL.com

[Todd A. Farmerie]

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

Post by david hughes
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark

Well there's Frodo. Hmm, . . .

[snip]

Post by david hughes
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king

Gandalf too. Now if we can just fit Aragorn in there somewhere.

taf

[Jared Linn Olar]

As I'm sure you know, Tolkien did get his inspiration for a lot of his
characters' names from Norse and Germanic history and legend.
Aragorn, however, was constructed from his fictional languages.

And of course, despite Icelandic genealogical legends, there is no
hard evidence that Frode VII and Gandalf, King of Alfheim on the
border of Norway and Sweden, ever existed.

Jared L. Olar

Post by Todd A. Farmerie

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

Post by david hughes
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark

Well there's Frodo. Hmm, . . .
[snip]

Post by david hughes
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king

Gandalf too. Now if we can just fit Aragorn in there somewhere.
taf

[Ford]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Linn Olar" <***@pekintimes.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy,
via Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark

Post by Jared Linn Olar
As I'm sure you know, Tolkien did get his inspiration for a lot of his
characters' names from Norse and Germanic history and legend.
Aragorn, however, was constructed from his fictional languages.
And of course, despite Icelandic genealogical legends, there is no
hard evidence that Frode VII and Gandalf, King of Alfheim

Alfheim = Elfhome. Perhaps that is the setting of Lord Dunsany's classic
_The King of Elfland's Daughter_? Would Gandalf be said king?
Ford

Post by Jared Linn Olar
on the
border of Norway and Sweden, ever existed.
Jared L. Olar

Post by Todd A. Farmerie

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

Post by david hughes
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark

Well there's Frodo. Hmm, . . .
[snip]

Post by david hughes
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king

Gandalf too. Now if we can just fit Aragorn in there somewhere.
taf

[Jared Linn Olar]

Post by Ford

Post by Jared Linn Olar
And of course, despite Icelandic genealogical legends, there is no
hard evidence that Frode VII and Gandalf, King of Alfheim

Alfheim = Elfhome. Perhaps that is the setting of Lord Dunsany's classic
_The King of Elfland's Daughter_? Would Gandalf be said king?
Ford

I suspect you're joking. Seriously, though, "Alfheim" in Old Icelandic
saga literature refers to both a mythical land of the elves or alfar
AND to an actual region in Scandinavia, bordering on the Gaut Elf
River just about midway between the regions of Norway and
Sweden/Gautland. Gandalf and his dynasty are presented in the saga
literature as an ordinary Scandinavian king, with no trace of the
supernatural about him. The Alfheim dynasty was supposedly founded,
most fittingly, by a king named Alf the Old, one of the nine sons of
Dag, son of Halfdan the Old. It should not be necessary to say that
there is no good reason to believe any of these kings were historical
-- in fact, there is good reason ot doubt their existence.

Jared L. Olar

[Ford]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Linn Olar" <***@pekintimes.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy,
via Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark

Post by Jared Linn Olar

Post by Ford

Post by Jared Linn Olar
And of course, despite Icelandic genealogical legends, there is no
hard evidence that Frode VII and Gandalf, King of Alfheim

Alfheim = Elfhome. Perhaps that is the setting of Lord Dunsany's classic
_The King of Elfland's Daughter_? Would Gandalf be said king?
Ford

I suspect you're joking. Seriously, though, "Alfheim" in Old Icelandic
saga literature refers to both a mythical land of the elves or alfar
AND to an actual region in Scandinavia, bordering on the Gaut Elf
River just about midway between the regions of Norway and
Sweden/Gautland. Gandalf and his dynasty are presented in the saga
literature as an ordinary Scandinavian king, with no trace of the
supernatural about him. The Alfheim dynasty was supposedly founded,
most fittingly, by a king named Alf the Old,

A.l.f. + Alien Life Form? -> Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Post by Jared Linn Olar
one of the nine sons of
Dag, son of Halfdan the Old. It should not be necessary to say that
there is no good reason to believe any of these kings were historical
-- in fact, there is good reason ot doubt their existence.
Jared L. Olar

[Todd A. Farmerie]

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------
10. Hilderic, Vandal-King 523-530 deposed, d533
a. Gormund, Byzantine Governor of North Africa 534-543, father of
Hilde, wife of Valdar "The Dane"
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark

The number of Danes known historically from this period is rather slim,
and that list does not include either Valdar or Frode VII (or Frode I-VI
either, invented all).

Post by david hughes
b. Brunulphe, Earl of Cambresis, who, by wife, Crotechilde, an
Ostro-Goth princess, was the father of Fredegonde, the infamous queen
of King Chilperic I of France
08. Ragnahari (above), King of the Allemania (555)
= Clotswith, dau of Sigebert of Burgundy (above) ***
09. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
10. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
11.Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (above) (630)
= [name], the Frisian heiress

The repeated use here of the title Earl is highly anachronictic, not
that it matters that much since the whole pedigree is without support.

Post by david hughes
12. Radbod, King of the Frisii, 1st husband of Auda "Djup-udga", Queen
of Denmark
13. Randver "of Denmark"
= Signy of Essex
14. Sigurd "Ring", King of Denmark 735-750
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king
15. Ragnar "Lodbrok", overlord of Scandinavia, his descendants were
called "Sons of Lodbrok" [his nickname "Lodbrok" became the dynasty's
surname] (d794)

This is all fanciful. The syntax of the "sons of Lodbrok" inscription
suggests that it was the (nick)name of their mother, not to mention we
have reasonable documentation for the royalty of this time, and there is
not a Ragnar or Sigurd among them (there are kings of similar name, but
they were not related to each other in the manner described in this saga
pedigree).

Post by david hughes
16. Sigurd (Sigfried) "Snake-Eye", King of Denmark (d803)

Sigurd and Sigrried are distinct names. Sigfried was king of Denmark
(again with the qualification about the true relationships differing
from those attributed here). Sigurd, who the Sagas make into a
Lodbroksdon is not well documented, at least as such.

Post by david hughes
17. Halfdan (d812)
18. Ragnar "The Raven", also called "Lodbrok" (d866), who is often
confused with his illustrious great-grandfather

There is no basis for this individual at all. Thus he hasn't been
confused with his mythical grandfather - the same person has been placed
in the pedigree twice.

[As always, any of my comments may be refuted with a simple presentation
of actual evidence to the contrary.]

taf

[Jared Linn Olar]

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------
10. Hilderic, Vandal-King 523-530 deposed, d533
a. Gormund, Byzantine Governor of North Africa 534-543, father of
Hilde, wife of Valdar "The Dane"
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark

"Gormund" is mentioned in Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings
of Britain" as a king of Germans in Africa who led an invasion of
Ireland and Britain during the reign of a Briton king named Careticus
(Ceretic) in the latter half of the 500s A.D. Careticus supposedly
was successful in beating back with terrible invasion, though
historical records don't mention anything of it. I believe Geoffrey
got the story of Gormund from someone -- I don't think it was original
with Geofrrey, but I don't know where he might have heard it. In any
event, I'm aware of no reason to believe Gormund ever existed, let
alone that he was a son of Hilderic, King of the Vandals.

As for Hilde, daughter of Hilderic, I've seen that spurious filiation
several times. It's based on a medieval Icelandic legendary pedigree
of Ivar Vidfadmi, a legendary conquering king of Scania, Denmark,
Sweden, Russia, and Northumbria who, again, may not have existed. The
pedigree first appears, I believe, in certain manuscripts of the
Hervarar Saga ok Heithreks Konungs. Ivar was supposedly descended
from a princess named Hild, daughter of Heidrik (Heithrekr) Ulfham,
King of Reidgothaland, traditionally identified as Jutland and/or
Mecklenburg. However, I've not yet found any early texts that
identify Hild's husband as Frode -- Hervarar Saga says she married a
Danish king named Valdar, but other Old Icelandic sources show Valdar
as an apparent descendant, not husband, of Hild.

Since the area of Heidrik's kingdom was associated with both the
German Vandals and the Slavic Wends, and since some later writers came
up with a false theory that the Vandals and the Wends were the same
people, someone came up with the idea that Heidrik Ulfham was a
legendary memory of the historical Vandal king Hilderic, and thus
invented a descent from the Vandal kings through the legendary kings
of Denmark and Sweden. However, there is simply no proof that Heidrik
Ulfham was Hilderic -- the names might seem similar, but just as the
Frankish royal name Hilderic is found in Old Icelandic texts as
Hjalprekr, so we should expect a Vandal king named Hilderic to be
mentioned in Old Icelandic texts as Hjaldrekr, or something like that,
not Heithrekr. Again, the legends of Heidrik Ulfham never associate
him with Africa, only with Northern Europe -- yet it was well known
throughout Europe, even Scandinavia, that the Vandals had migrated to
North Africa. One would expect some trace of that in the legends of
Heidrek Ulfham if it were true that he was based on the historical
Hilderic the Vandal.

At your service,

Jared L. Olar

[Jared Linn Olar]

. . . . However, I've not yet found any early texts that
identify Hild's husband as Frode -- Hervarar Saga says she married a
Danish king named Valdar, but other Old Icelandic sources show Valdar
as an apparent descendant, not husband, of Hild.

I misremembered the legendary pedigree in Hervarar Saga. In fact the
saga does not identify the husband of Hild, daughter of Heidrek
Ulfham, but only says that she was the mother of Ivar Vidfadmi's
father. Valdar appears in many Icelandic sources as the father or
grandfather of Ivar Vidfadmi, but in Hervarar Saga we find Valdar
twice -- once as a King of the Danes during the reign of Heidrek
Ulfham's father, and again as the son-in-law of Ivar Vidfadmi.
However, since all other old Icelandic texts that mention Valdar show
him as Ivar's ancestor rather than son-in-law, we can be reasonably
sure that Hervarar Saga has an error here.

Jared Linn Olar

[marshall kirk]

As always: who says so? where? when? on the basis of what facts or
arguments? If I wanted to, I could whip up and post a line showing my
descent from the Annunaki, *via* Gilgamesh, Lot's wife, Akhilleos &
Patroklos (heh heh!), the senator Diarrheticus Perpetuus, his daughter
Voxpopula and her son Voxdei, Pepsodentus (Scourge of the Yellow
Teeth), Robin Hood, the Red Red Robin, and the Cat in the Hat. If you
took me seriously for a picosecond (tho' I hope you wouldn't), would
you not wish to know my sources?

Post by david hughes
gateway descents from Kings of Vandals, via Kings of Burgundy, via
Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
-------------------------------------------------------------
A. Vandals
01. Anavas, King of Vandals (250)
02. Igillus, King of Vandals (275)
03. Anthyrius, King of Vandals (300)
04. Wisimar, King of Vandals (333)
05. Vitislaus, King of Vandals (350)
06. Villicinus, King of Vandals (375)
a. Radagaisus, King of Vandals (d405), fought Romans, father of
Corisco
b. Godigisclus (d406) (below)
c. Mogogiskilus (Miecislaus), invaded Gaul 406
07.Godigisclus, Vandal-King, killed in battle 406
a. Guntheric, led Vandals to Spain, founded the Vandal kingdom of
Andalusia (407) (d427)
b. Gaiseric (below)
08. Gaiseric, Vandal-King 427-477, conquered the Roman province of
North Africa & founded Vandal kingdom (429), invaded Italy and sacked
Rome (455) (d477)
=1 a Hunnish princess; =2 a Berber princess; =3 an Ostro-Gothic
princess
a. Huneric (below)
b. Gento [twin] (below), see note
c. Grepa [twin]
d. Theodoric "The Elder", a military-officer in the service of his
uncle [mother's brother] Theodoric "The Ostro-Goth"
---------------------------------------------------------
note: descent-line of Huneric (above)
09. Huneric, Vandal-King 477-484
=1 Eudoxia, a Roman princess; =2 [name], a Visi-Gothic princess, dau
of King Teodorico I of Spain
a. Hilderic (below)
b. [name], father of (a) Hoamer "The Vandal Achilles" & (b) Evagus
(Euagees)
10. Hilderic, Vandal-King 523-530 deposed, d533
a. Gormund, Byzantine Governor of North Africa 534-543, father of
Hilde, wife of Valdar "The Dane"
b. Hilde, wife of Frode VII, King of Denmark
--------------------------------------------------------------------
note: descent-line of Gento (above), son of Vandal-King Gaiseric
09. Gento (above) begot of 1st wife [unknown] (a) Godagis, (b)
Gundamund, Vandal-King 486-496; & (c) Gelaris (below); &, begot of 2nd
wife [a Scythian princess] (d) Trasamund, Vandal-King 496-523
10. Gelaris, prince
a. Gelimer (below)
b. Ammata
c. Tzazo
d. Gundmer
e. Geberic, father of Gibamund, father of Solomon, royal Vandal
claimant 539-540
11. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
=1 [name]; =2 Placidia, a Byzantine princess
a. Gripr
b. Hjordis (dau), 5th wife of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (below)
***
c. others
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Burgundians
01. Gibico (Gjuki) (Gibeche) (Gibicca), King of Burgundians, from whom
the Gibichung Dynasty derives its name
02. Gundomar, King of Burgundians
03. Gislahar[ius] (Gislhere) (Gislaire), King of Burgundians (d413)
04. Gundicar (Gundahar) (Gunther) (Gonthaire) (Gonthaires), King of
Burgundians 413-436
= Belizde [Hrothildis], co-heiress & dau of King Faramond, 1st King of
France
05. Caratene (daughter), heiress
= Gunderic (Gundeuch) (Gondioch), King of Burgundians 436-473, son of
King Chlodio (Chlodovecus), King of Franks [his 1st wife] [his 2nd
wife was sister of Ricimer, master-of-troops]
a. Chilperic (Hilperic), identified with Hjalprek in medieval saga,
King of Burgundians 473-486, the father of Clotilda (St), 3rd wife of
Clovis The Great, King of Franks
b. Godomar [I], co-king (d486)
c. Godegisele, co-king (d501), mur by bro
d. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (below)
06.Gundobad (Gondebaud) (Gundobadus), co-king (d516) (above)
a. Sigismund (below)
b. Godomar [II] (below)
c. Guntheuc (dau)
=1 Clodomir of France (d524); =2 Clothaire I of France
----------------------------------------------------------------------
note: offspring of Sigismund, King of Burgundians (above)
07. Sigismund, King of Burgundians 516-523 deposed, d526 (above)
=1 Theodogoto, Ostro-Goth princess; =2/3/4 others; =5 Hjordis, Vandal
princess (above) ***
a. Sigeric, mur 522
b. Suavegotta (Suavegothe) (dau), wife of King Thierry I of France
c. Gundobad (Gondebaud) (d523)
d. Gislahad (Gislahadus) (d523)
e. Sigebert (posthumous son), father of Clotswith, wife of Ragnahari,
King of the Allemania (below) ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
note: offspring of Godomar [II], King of Burgundians (above)
07. Godomar [II], King of Burgundians 523-532 deposed, d532
08. Guillebaud I (Willibald), King of Burgundians 532 & 534-8
09. Guntram, prince
a. Aletheus, Patrice of Burgundy (d616), father of Guillebaud II
(Willibald), Patrice of Bourgogne (Burgundy) (629) (d642), father of
[?]goto (dau), wife of Ardebasto, Visi-Goth prince, parents of King
Ervigio, King of Spain
b. Gondebaud, duke, Count of Meaux (571) (d584), ancestor of Gontier
(Guntharius), Count of Angers (750)
c. [name], father Gundoenus (Gondoin), fl c 635
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. the Volsungs of Allemania, Cambresis, & Denmark
01. Siggo, obtains kingdom of Germany 357
02. Rerir
03. Waels or Welsinc [Vols /or Volsung], ancestor of the "Volsungs"
(400)
= Hjod, dau of Hrimnir
04. Sigmund
= Signy [called his half-sis in medieval saga]
05. Siegfried (Sigurd) "Fafnisbane", called "Dragon-Slayer", epic
hero, the leader of a war-band of Germans, fought Romans 469
= Brunhilda, dau of Butilin, King of Allemania [= "all-men", reference
to Germans]
a. Ragnachar (below)
b. Ricchar
c. Rignomer (d508), father of Ragnoara, wife of Pastor, a Gallo-Roman
noble
06. Ragnachar, King of Allemania (485)
= Albofleda, a Frankish princess
07. Segnius "of Allemania" (520)
a. Ragnhari (below)
b. Brunulphe, Earl of Cambresis, who, by wife, Crotechilde, an
Ostro-Goth princess, was the father of Fredegonde, the infamous queen
of King Chilperic I of France
08. Ragnahari (above), King of the Allemania (555)
= Clotswith, dau of Sigebert of Burgundy (above) ***
a. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
b. Gundswith (dau)
=1 Atanagildo, Visi-Goth King of Spain; =2 Leovigildo, Visi-Goth King
of Spain
c. Clothilde (dau)
=1 Caribert I, King of France [his 5th wife]; =2 Redwald, King of East
Anglia [his 1st wife]
09. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
10. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
a. Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (below) (630)
b. Ragnatrude, 3rd wife of King Dagobert I of France, &, mother of his
daughter Regintrude, wife of King Theodo II of Bavaria
11.Landegisel, Earl of Cambresis (above) (630)
= [name], the Frisian heiress
12. Radbod, King of the Frisii, 1st husband of Auda "Djup-udga", Queen
of Denmark
13. Randver "of Denmark"
= Signy of Essex
14. Sigurd "Ring", King of Denmark 735-750
= Alfhild, dau of Gandalf, a Norse king
15. Ragnar "Lodbrok", overlord of Scandinavia, his descendants were
called "Sons of Lodbrok" [his nickname "Lodbrok" became the dynasty's
surname] (d794)
16. Sigurd (Sigfried) "Snake-Eye", King of Denmark (d803)
17. Halfdan (d812)
18. Ragnar "The Raven", also called "Lodbrok" (d866), who is often
confused with his illustrious great-grandfather
--------------------------------------------------------------------
direct-line of descent thru above generations
01. Gelimer, Vandal-King 530-534, identified with Eylimi in medieval
saga, deposed by Byzantines (534) who conquered the Vandal kingdom
[see above]
02. Hjordis (dau),
= Sigismund, King of Burgundians
03. Sigebert (posthumous son)
04. Clotswith
= Ragnahari, King of the Allemania
[note: descents from their dau, Gundswith, by both her husbands, see
above] ***
05. Ragnemod, Earl of Cambresis (d591)
06. Gottfried, Earl of Cambresis
07 Ragnatrude
= King Dagobert I of France [his 3rd wife]
08.Regintrude
= King Theodo II of Bavaria
[note: another descent may be traced thru this link] ***
-------------------------------------------------------

[jl]

euh I prefer harry Potter than lord of the rings... could Mr Hugues give us
a lovely line with Harry , Albus Dumledore, Sirius Black and Remus Lupin
please....