Post by David Teague
Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence + Elizabeth de Burgh, 4th Countess of Ulster
Philippa of Clarence + Edmund Mortimer, 3rd Earl of March
Elizabeth Mortimer + Sir Henry Percy (Hotspur)
Elizabeth Percy + John Clifford, 7th Baron Clifford
Thomas Clifford, 8th Baron Clifford + Joan Dacre
Maud Clifford + 2. Sir Edmund Sutton of Dudley
Margaret Sutton (2nd wife) + Sir John Musgrave
Thomas Musgrave (+ Margaret Crackenthorpe?)
David, I have the descent down to this generation. But I have the Thomas Musgrave, eldest son of Sir John Musgrave of Fairbank (d. 1515) & his 2nd wife Margaret Dudley, with two wives, neither of which was Margaret Crackenthorpe.
I have as his first wife, Wylgefrid, daughter of Ralph Fenwick of Stanton Hall (d. c.1534) and Margery Mitford (d. 1535). In 'The Pedegre of Raffe Fenwyke of Stanton in Co. Northumberland, Esquyer' in the 1552 Visitation of the North, "Wylgeford [dau of Sir Ralph Fenwick of Stanton & Margery Corbet (sic, should be Mitford)], wedyd to Thomas Musgrave of Bewcastell"
On 20 August 1535, Margery (Mitford) Fenwick "settled all her lands, &c., in Cresswell, Newbiggen, and Newcastle, upon this 'Wilgefrid,' for the term of her life, with rem. to Cuthbert Musgrave, son and heir of Thos. Musgrave, marshal of Berwick, and his heirs male"
On 7 March 1536, Westminster. "Cuthbert Musgrave, s. and h. of Thos. Musgrave, marshal of Berwick. To be bailiff of the town and lordship of Perythe (Penrith), Cumb., lately held by the said Thomas."
So this Cuthbert Musgrave was of full age in 1536 (born by 1515). Presumably he was the son of Thomas Musgrave, marshal of Berwick, by his wife Wilgefrid Fenwick, daughter of Margaret (Mitford) Fenwick, though this isn't entirely clear.
But according to the HOP entry for William Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1597), his father Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1542), husband of Elizabeth Dacre of Gilsland, was marshal of Berwick.
How can Thomas Musgrave, marshal of Berwick, have had a son and heir Cuthbert Musgrave, and also a son and heir William Musgrave? It's confusing.
The other wife I have for Thomas Musgrave, eldest son of Sir John Musgrave of Fairbank (d. 1515) & his 2nd wife Margaret Dudley, is Alice, one of the four daughters and coheirs of Thomas Beauchamp of Croglin and his wife Isabel Kirkbride.
12 July 1511, Windsor Castle. "Pardon and release for Richard Bell, and Margaret his wife, John Hoton [Hutton] and Elizabeth his wife, Thomas Musgrave and Alice his wife, Thomas Lancastre and Joan his wife, daughters and heirs of Thomas Beauchamp of Crogling, late sheriff of Cumberland;--also grant of the goods and chattels of the said Thomas Beauchamp, seized by John Ratclyff, late sheriff of the said county."
But by 1529-1532, Thomas Musgrave, husband of Alice Beauchamp, was dead.
C 1/643/24 "Plaintiffs: John Hutton of Penrith, gentleman, Elizabeth, his wife, Thomas Lancastre, esquire, Jane, his wife, Alice, late the wife of Thomas Musgrave, of Murton, esquire, John Bell of Howgill, yeoman, son and heir of Margaret Bell. Defendants: Christopher Dacre, knight. Subject: The manor of Croglin and townships of Wamersyke and Langmore, dower of Isabel, late the wife of Thomas Beauchamp of Croglin, esquire, which the said Elizabeth, Jane, Alice and Margaret, as his sisters and heirs, assigned to her for life, and which she leased to defendant, who claims the premises as sold to him by Humphrey, father of the said Thomas Beauchamp. Cumberland."
It's worth noting that John Hutton of Penrith and his wife Elizabeth Beauchamp of Croglin, were the paternal grandparents of Sir Richard Hutton of Goldsborough.
Since Alice (Beauchamp) Musgrave survived her husband Thomas Musgrave, who had died by 1529-32, and Wilgefrid (Fenwick) Musgrave was living in 1535, I'm clearly incorrect in making these two ladies married to the same Thomas Musgrave.
Which leaves me with a few questions:
1) Who was "Thomas Musgrave of Bewcastell", husband of Wilgefrid Fenwick?
2) Who was "Thomas Musgrave, of Murton", husband of Alice Beauchamp?
3) Who was "Thomas Musgrave, marshal of Berwick", father of Cuthbert Musgrave?
4) Were either of the three Thomas Musgraves above, the Thomas Musgrave who was the eldest son of Sir John Musgrave and Margaret Dudley?
Post by David Teague
Elinor or Elizabeth Musgrave + Anthony Hutton
Sir Richard Hutton (1560-1639), Justice of the Common Pleas
OK, there is an account of the Hutton family of Hutton Hall in 'The History and Topography of the Counties of Cumberland and Westmorland' (1860) by William Whellan, who states, "ANTHONY Hutton , son and heir , married , in the reign of Henry VIII . , Elizabeth , daughter of Thomas Musgrave , Esq . , of Cumcatch , in the county of Cumberland , by his wife Elizabeth , illegitimate daughter of Thomas Lord Dacre of Gilsland."
In the article 'Additional Notes on the Heraldic Glass at Stobhall' by J.M. Gray, in 'Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland' (1894), pp. 9-10:
"The first was the marriage of Elizabeth Musgrave (daughter of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton
and Cumcatch, who died in 1532, and his wife, Elizabeth, natural daughter of Thomas, Lord Dacre) to Anthony Hutton of Hutton Hall, in Penrith. ... the identification of Thomas Musgrave of Cumcatch, whose daughter married Hutton, with Thomas Musgrave of Hayton, who died 1532,—this is, I think, certain from the following facts. All the printed pedigrees agree that Thomas Musgrave of Hayton married Elizabeth, bastard daughter of Thomas, Lord Dacre. Now in 1567 there is a petition of his son, Leonard Musgrave. He petitions Cecil, being then deputy captain of Bewcastle. From this petition it appears that Thomas, Lord Dacre, had demised Cumcatch. in Gilsland to petitioner's father, who had married a daughter of Thomas, Lord Dacre, his grandfather, for services rendered to his family, and Lord Dacre continued it to the petitioner, for his life."
The original August 1567 petition from Leonard Musgrave of Cumcatch states "...also because petitioner [Leonard Musgrave]'s father was tenant [in Cumcatch], having married a daughter of Thomas [2nd] Lord Dacre, his lordship [4th Lord Dacre]'s grandfather."
This seems to be the evidence that Elizabeth Musgrave, wife of Anthony Hutton, was the daughter of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton Castle (d. 1532) and his wife Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas, 2nd Lord Dacre of Gilsland.
What is your evidence that she instead was the daughter of his first cousin Thomas Musgrave, son of Sir John Musgrave and Margaret Dudley?
Thanks & Cheers, -----Brad