Discussion:
Ancestry of Jimena Munoz, grandmother of Affonso I of Portugal and Alfonso Jordan of Toulouse
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t***@clearwire.net
2009-02-23 07:45:35 UTC
Permalink
The parentage of Jimena Munoz, mistress of Alfonso VI of Leon and
Castile, has long been a subject of interest due to her role as mother
of his eldest children, particularly of Teresa, the self-proclaimed
Queen of Portugal. As such, she was ancestress to all of the
Portuguese royals, as well as of Alfonso IX of Leon, grandfather of
Eleanor of Castile, Queen of England, and through the Osorio family,
of Sancha de Ayala, who likewise has many American descendants.

The earliest widely disseminated attempt to trace her ancestry was to
make her daughter of Nuno Rodriguez, the husband of Jimena Ordonez, a
granddaughter of Vermudo II of Leon. I have not looked into the
history of this solution - it is intimately linked to the discredited
belief that Jimena Nunez (i.e. Jimena Munoz) was sister of Rodrigo
Nunez/Munoz de Guzman, founder of that family, in turn made son of
this Nuno Rodriguez. Once this age-old confusion of Nuno/Munio is
taken into account, the parents so named did exist - a count Munio
Rodriguez and wife Jimena Ordonez were historical individuals, having,
it would seem, two children, in addition to younger son Suero an elder
son, count Rodrigo Munoz, who was killed at Segrajas in 1086. In terms
of the Guzman descent, it cannot be supported, The founder of that
family was a generation younger than Jimena Munoz, who herself seems
too young to be sister of this Rodrigo Munoz. Further Rodrigo Munoz
appears to have left a sole heiress, Mayor Rodriguez, the mother in
law of Rodrigo Perez de Traba, el Velloso. (It should be added that
Munio Rodriguez remarried to Ilduara Velasquez. having daughter Elvira
Munoz, wife of Pelayo Gomez, of the Banu Gomez clan.)

The first recent work to attempt to address the issue was that of
Clemente Palencia. His work is notable for finding documentation int
he region of Ulvia, in which a Jimena Munoz, tenant, is named, along
with kin Munio Munoz and Velasquita. He proposes that Jimena is
identical to the king's mistress and was daughter of this couple.

The next serious study was that of Canal Sanchez-Pagin. He
reevaluated the starting material and concluded that she would not
have been daughter of Munio Munoz. This obscure nobleman could hardly
be the father of one called "most noble". Rather, he looked to the
families of the highest rank, and found three possible fathers named
Munio. One was the Munio Rodriguez traditionally made her father. The
second was the Count of Asturias, Munio Gonzales, while the third was
the well-documented family of count Munio Munoz and his father Munio
Rodriguez Canis. He found documentation of an "Infanta Jimena Munoz"
and concluded that this 'most noble' lady was sister of the premier
count of her time, Rodrigo Munoz, the son of Munio Gonzalez, the other
counts Munio being too old to be her father.

A third study of the issue, by Jaime de Sanchez y Acha, had been
published in a Spanish academy proceedings, but had proved difficult
to obtain. The only clue I had was that in a recent work by Canal
Sanchez-Pagin on count Gomez Gonzalez, he indicated that the count's
wife was daughter of count Rodrigo Munoz, brother of the royal
mistress, and further, that she was descended from Rodrigo Romanez
(father of Munio Rodriguez, who married Jimena Ordonez). This made me
wonder if Salazar y Acha hadn't reverted to the original descent.

Well, thanks to the FMG library, I have now seen the original Salazar
y Acha article. He fully accepts Canal's argument with regard to
Jimena's immediate parentage, concluding that she was daughter of
count Munio Gonzalez and his wife Mayor. He then concludes that she
is also the Jimena associated with Munio Munoz, but here is the twist.
He concludes that given that we have an associated Jimena, daughter of
Mayor of unknown parentage, and a Munio Munoz, husband of Velasquita
of unknown parentage, that it is likely Mayor and Velasquita are the
two siblings named in a document as daughters of Munio Rodriguez (son
of Rodrigo Romaniz) and Jimena Munoz, in turn daughter of count Munio
Munoz (the son of Munio Rodriguez Canis), thereby placing all three of
Canal's counts Munio in Jimena's pedigree. With all these Munios, it
can get confusing, so here is the AT:

1. Jimena Munoz
2. Munio Gonzalez, Count in Asturias, (c1030-aft May 1087)
3. Mayor Munoz (sister of Velasquita Munoz, the wife of Munio Munoz)
4. Gonzalo Munoz, 'conde asturiense' (c1000-aft Oct 1047)
5. Eilo Munoz
6. Munio Rodriguez, count, (c1010-aft Dec 1074)
7. Jimena Munoz
8. Munio Gonzalez, Count of Alava (c975-aft 1030)
9. (unknown)
10. Munio Rodriguez Canis, count (c960-aft Mar 1024)
11. Enderquina Froilaz, daughter of count Froila Velaz and countess
Eilo
12. Rodrigo Romaniz, count, grandson of Vermudo II, (c980-aft Dec
1028)
13. Elvira Rodriguez, daughter of count Rodrigo and Odrozia
14. Munio Munoz, count, mayordomo, (c987-aft Nov 1028), son of #10 &
11
15. Jimena Munoz, daughter of count Munio Fernandez and Jimena Froilaz

This does not come without a severe problem. In another article from
a couple of years earlier, Salazar y Acha discusses #6, Munio
Rodriguez, the son of Rodrigo Romaniz, in more detail, but gives him
two entirely different wives, Jimena Ordonez and Ilduara Velasquez.
Here he shows him as marrying Jimena Munoz. At some point between the
two articles he has changed his mind, either as to the paternity of
Munio R's wife Jimena, which Munio R was son of Rodrigo Romaniz, or
something, but does not discuss this change of mind in either article,
making it impossible to determine the reason for the change, if it was
even intended. (Note that a somewhat analogous thing happened to this
author when he speculated concerning the parentage of countess Urraca
of Castile, only to have a years-old ancestry table of his published
the next year that showed the superseded version, making it appear to
be a corrected one.)

At any rate, at least with regard to the parents of Jimena, there
seems to be consensus between these two Iberian genealogical
specialists of the period. This uniformity is, apparently, not
universal, as Luiz Mello Vaz de São Payo apparently gives different
parentage, making her daughter of a Munio Moniz, count of Bierzo, and
his wife Muniadona Moniz. I have not seen this original work, nor am I
familiar enough with this Monio Moniz (i.e. Munio Munoz) to determine
whether his is idntical to one of the above of that name or not.

taf



Canal Sánchez-Pagín, José Maria. Jimena Muñoz, Amiga de Alfonso VI.
Anuario de Estudios Medievales. 21:11-40 (1991).

Palencia, Clemente. Historia y Legendas de las Mujeres de Alfonso VI.
in Estudios Sobre Alfonso VI y la Reconquista de Toledo. 281-90
(1988).

Salazar y Acha, Jaime de. Los Descendientes del Conde Ero Fernandez,
Fundador del Monasterio de Santa Maria de Ferreira de Pallares. in
Galicia en la Edad Media. 67-86 (1990).

Salazar y Acha, Jaime de. Contribución al estudio del reinado de
Alfonso VI de Castilla: algunas aclaraciones sobre su política
matrimonial. Anales de la Real Academia Matritense de Heráldica y
Genealogía, 2:299-336 (1992-1993)
Nathaniel Taylor
2009-02-24 01:20:08 UTC
Permalink
In article
... With all these Munios, it
1. Jimena Munoz
2. Munio Gonzalez, Count in Asturias, (c1030-aft May 1087)
3. Mayor Munoz (sister of Velasquita Munoz, the wife of Munio Munoz)
4. Gonzalo Munoz, 'conde asturiense' (c1000-aft Oct 1047)
5. Eilo Munoz
6. Munio Rodriguez, count, (c1010-aft Dec 1074)
7. Jimena Munoz
8. Munio Gonzalez, Count of Alava (c975-aft 1030)
9. (unknown)
10. Munio Rodriguez Canis, count (c960-aft Mar 1024)
11. Enderquina Froilaz, daughter of count Froila Velaz and countess
Eilo
12. Rodrigo Romaniz, count, grandson of Vermudo II, (c980-aft Dec
1028)
13. Elvira Rodriguez, daughter of count Rodrigo and Odrozia
14. Munio Munoz, count, mayordomo, (c987-aft Nov 1028), son of #10 &
11
15. Jimena Munoz, daughter of count Munio Fernandez and Jimena Froilaz
Thanks, Todd. An embarrassment of Munios.

For the curious, the apparent descent from Jimena Munoz (no. 1) above to
Sancha de Ayala is:

1. Alfonso VI had by mistress, Jimena Munoz (liaison 1077-79; she d.
1128):
2. Elvira Alfonso (b. say 1079), m. 1st, by 1097, Raimond de
Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse, who d. 1105; m. 2d, likely well before
1117, Count Fernando Fernandez (d. bef. 1130)
3. (by 2d husband) Teresa Fernandez (b. say 1115), m. Count Osorio
Martinez (b. bef. 1108; attested from 1126, d. 1160)
4. Gonzalo Osorio (attested 1169-1180; mayordomo mayor of King Fernando
II)
5. Osorio Gonzalez (attested 1194; d. say 1220)
6. Rodrigo Osorio (attested, prob. posthumously, 1253/8)
7. Rodrigo Rodriguez (attested 1253/8; attested 1273?)
8. Alvar Rodriguez Osorio, m. Elvira Nunez (de Navarra?)
9. Elvira Alvarez Osorio, m. García Gomez Carillo (attested 1312)
10. Juana Garcia Carrillo, m. (1st) Diego Gutierrez de Ceballos (d.1330)
11. Elvira Alvarez de Ceballos (d. 1372), m. Fernan Perez de Ayala (d.
1378)
12. Ines Alfonso de Ayala, m. Diego Gomez
13. Sancha de Ayala, m. Walter Blount

no. 2 in this descent, Elvira Alfonso, left issue and has modern
descendants by both her husbands; she accompanied her first husband,
Raimond de Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse, on the 1st Crusade, where
their son Alphonse-Jourdain was reportedly baptized in the Jordan river.
The Osorio descent is not entirely shown in contemporary documents, but
the sources agree that 8 was a descendant of 3--and as Todd has just
posted, the modern genealogists agree that the above reconstruction is
the most likely path.

Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
Nathaniel Taylor
2009-02-24 03:04:06 UTC
Permalink
A propos Todd's excellent recent posts, I just wanted to point the
curious to some touristic pages I've done on Sancha de Ayala (d. 1418),
one of the medieval Spanish-English gateways who has many Anglo-American
descendants. I've been sporadically putting up some explanatory
material about her connections and a few photos of her paternal and
maternal palaces (both of which have been preserved as convents), on my
blog, indexed on a dedicated 'Sancha' index page here:

http://www.nltaylor.net/medievalia/sancha/

Still no single annotated ahnentafel for her though. Todd's Jimena
Munoz & Osorio posts should show how difficult such a task is.

Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
zglorgy
2009-02-25 14:28:04 UTC
Permalink
is it possible to complete the AT one or Two generations more...

i have difficulties to identify some people in last genrations ( Munio
Fernandez and Jimena Froilaz , count Rodrigo and Odrozia)

Thank you

JL

1. Jimena Munoz
2. Munio Gonzalez, Count in Asturias, (c1030-aft May 1087)
3. Mayor Munoz (sister of Velasquita Munoz, the wife of Munio Munoz)
4. Gonzalo Munoz, 'conde asturiense' (c1000-aft Oct 1047)
5. Eilo Munoz
6. Munio Rodriguez, count, (c1010-aft Dec 1074)
7. Jimena Munoz
8. Munio Gonzalez, Count of Alava (c975-aft 1030)
9. (unknown)
10. Munio Rodriguez Canis, count (c960-aft Mar 1024)
11. Enderquina Froilaz, daughter of count Froila Velaz and countess
Eilo
12. Rodrigo Romaniz, count, grandson of Vermudo II, (c980-aft Dec
1028)
13. Elvira Rodriguez, daughter of count Rodrigo and Odrozia
14. Munio Munoz, count, mayordomo, (c987-aft Nov 1028), son of #10 &
11
15. Jimena Munoz, daughter of count Munio Fernandez and Jimena Froilaz
t***@clearwire.net
2009-02-27 17:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by zglorgy
is it possible to complete the AT one or Two generations more...
i have difficulties to identify some people in last genrations ( Munio
Fernandez and Jimena Froilaz , count Rodrigo and Odrozia)
Rodrigo is Rodrigo Gutierrez. Salazar y Acha identifies him with the
man of this name, the son of count Gutierre Osoriz and his wife, first
cousin Indonza Menendez, these being the parents of queen Adosinda,
wife of Ramiro II. Margarita Torres Sevilla mentions this
identification without explicitly supporting this.

Odracia is Odracia Godesteiz. She was daughter of Godesteo Ordonez
(and Leodegundia Rodriguez), son of Ordono Godesteiz, son of Godesteo
Eriz (and Gotina) son of count Ero Fernandez (and Elvira).

All of this is found in Salazar y Acha's work: Los Descendientes del
Conde Ero Fernandez, Fundador del Monasterio de Santa Maria de
Ferreira de Pallares. in Galicia en la Edad Media. 67-86 (1990).

Now I am going to go out on a limb and suggest something quite
speculative. The name Leodegundia is extremely rare. In this general
period, Torres Sevilla mentions it only in three families: the royal
family, were a sister of Alfonso III of this name married a prince of
Navarre; second, in the families of brothers Ero and Diego Fernandez;
and third, out Leodegundia Rodriguez. Ero Fernandez had a great-
granddaughter of this name, while Diego had a daughter Leodegundia
Diaz, who married Rodrigo Tetoniz. (As an aside, Perez de Urbel used
this and her brother's name, Jimeno, to suggest that Oneca (a Basque
name), wife of Diego Fernandez, was daughter of that infanta
Leodegundia and her royal Navarre husband.) Now, chronologically
speaking, Diego's family seems to be a little younger than Ero's -
Muniadomna Diaz, daughter of Diego, married Hermengildo Gonzalez,
maternal grandson of Ero. Thus, given the general pattern of endogamy
and the onomastics, it seems to me not unreasonable to speculate that
Leodegundia Rodriguez was daughter of Rodrigo Tetoniz and Leodegundia
Diaz, that this speculative granddaughter of Diego would be marrying
Godesteo Ordonez, great-grandson of Ero.

Munio Fernandez is the count of this name who was father of count
Fruela Munoz, the latter best known as father-in-law of the Flainez
count Diego Perez, and grandfather of prominent count Fruela Diaz
(husband of countess and royal kinswoman Estefania Sanchez and
ancestor of the Cifuentes branch of the Flainez). He is probably the
same man as count Munio of Somiedo. His family is detailed in the work
of Alfonso Prieto Prieto, El Conde Fruela Munoz: Un Asturiano del
Siglo XI. Asturiensia Medievalia. 2:10-37 (1975). He shows much of
this branch of the pedigree followed by Salazar y Acha. Prieto Prieto
only names the wife as Jimena, with no patronymic, nor does Salazar y
Acha provide details. With this absence of detail, placing Jimena
Fruelaz should seem a simple process - neither the name Jimena nor
Fruela were among the more common names. There were two prominent
counts at this time that come to mind, Fruela Gutierrez and Fruela
Velaz. The former was a member of the high Galician nobility, and the
name Jimena is not found in his family. On the other hand, Fruela
Velaz had a sister Jimena. This is just second hand speculation, but
I suspect the theory is that Jimena, wife of Munio Fernandez, is
daughter of count Fruela Velaz and sister of Enderquina Fruelaz who
also appeared in the AT presented.

Having reexamined the Prieto Prieto article, I will have to take
another look at the problem involving the conflicting marriages of
Munio Rodriguez that I mentioned in the first post, and perhaps some
illumination may arise. I suspect Martinez Sopena may have some useful
information about this as well.

taf
t***@clearwire.net
2009-02-28 04:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Rodrigo is Rodrigo Gutierrez.  Salazar y Acha identifies him with the
man of this name, the son of count Gutierre Osoriz and his wife, first
cousin Indonza Menendez, these being the parents of queen Adosinda,
wife of Ramiro II.  Margarita Torres Sevilla mentions this
identification without explicitly supporting this.
As I typed this, I vaguely remembered being uncomfortable with it.
Another look stirred my memory. It appears to be chronologically
problematic.

Here is how the generations work out:

Ero Fernandez

Godesteo Teresa

Ordono Pelayo=Ermesinda Gutierrez

Godesteo

Odrocia


Now Ermesenda Gutierrez was first cousin of Rodrigo Gutierrez, placing
husband and wife, Odrocia and Rodrigo two generations apart. Such
things are not unheard of (e.g. the House of York), but this seems
reason for caution.

Rodrigo Gutierrez, identified by Salazar y Acha with Odrocia's
husband, is seen from 934-992 (according to Torres Sevilla). She
gives Odrocia a death after 1034. Again, a 40 year widowhood is not
impossible, and she did outlive her father by 75 years, but it still
looks like there is a missing generation, or even two. Rodrigo
Gutierrez, the son of Gutierre Osoriz, had a son Gutierre. Could he
have been father of Odrocia's husband?

There is a count Gutierre Rodriguez who last appears in 1014, and
hence would make a much better fit as father of Odrocia's husband. He
married Oneca Diaz, and were they parents of a Rodrigo, that Rodrigo
would be great-grandson of Diego Fernandez, just as I have
hypothesized Odrocia to be (as daughter of Leodegundia Rodriguez,
hypothesized daughter of Leodegundia Diaz by Rodrigo Tetoniz.
Further, there are two possible sets of parents for this Gutierre
Rodriguez. Saez Sanchez thought he was son of Rodrigo Tetoniz, the
husband of Leodegundia, making a son Rodrigo Gutierrez first cousin of
Odrocia. However, others make him the Gutierre above, son of Rodrigo
Gutierrez. (Likewise Rodrigo Tetoniz has two hypothesized fathers,
Teton Lucindes, or Teton Betotez, the latter, apparently, being the
more likely.) This all is only suggestive of generational placement,
but seems more likely to me.

All this remains to be demonstrated, but I think a degree of caution
is certainly merited in accepting Salazar y Acha's solution here
without a more thorough examination of the chronology.

taf
zglorgy
2009-02-28 23:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Tnank you for all

JL
t***@clearwire.net
2009-03-03 04:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@clearwire.net
The first recent work to attempt to address the issue was that of
Clemente Palencia. His work is notable for finding documentation int
he region of Ulvia, in which a Jimena Munoz, tenant, is named, along
with kin Munio Munoz and Velasquita. He proposes that Jimena is
identical to the king's mistress and was daughter of this couple.
Just a quick note: The author to whim I attributed this solution is
incorrect - I had my mind on the question of Alfonso's other mistress,
also addressed by Salazar y Acha, and it is that issue that Clemente
Palencia addressed. The work on Jimena Munoz was instead that of
Quintana Prieto.

Quintana Prieto, Augusto. Jimena Muñiz, madre de Doña Teresa de
Portugal. Revista Portuguesa de Historia. 12:223-80 (1969).

Quintana Prieto, Augusto. La Infanta Dona Elvira, Hija de Alfonso VI y
de Jimena Muniz. in Temas Bercianos. 3:277-401 (1984).

taf

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