CB Correction: Parents of Jane Weston (c.1560-1637), 2nd Wife of Sir Thomas Bishopp, 1st Bt

[Brad Verity]

One of the Edward III lines in my most recent blogpost included Jane Weston, the second wife of Sir Thomas Bishopp, 1st Baronet of Parham (see Line F):
http://royaldescent.blogspot.ca/2015/05/remaining-edward-iii-descents-for.html

Many thanks to Leo van de Pas for pointing out that 'Complete Baronetage' Vol. 1, p. 156, has Jane Weston as "da. of Sir Richard Weston, of Sutton, co. Surrey, by Jane, da. and h. of John Dister, of Bergholt, Essex":
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n179/mode/2up

As Jane Weston, Dame Bishopp is an ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, and so of the latest royal baby, Princess Charlotte, it's good to get her sorted.

'Complete Baronetage' seems to be in error as to Jane Weston's parents. There are bios of both Sir Henry Weston and his son Sir Richard Weston in HOP.

Sir Henry's bio is here:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-sir-henry-15345-92

Sir Richard's bio is here:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-richard-i-1564-1613

Notice that Richard Weston didn't marry Jane Dister until 1583. The HOP bio of Sir Thomas Bishopp, 1st Baronet, has him married to Jane Weston about 1589:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-thomas-1553-1626

So it is chronologically impossible for Jane to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston and Jane Dister.

Per the IPM of Sir Thomas Bishopp, 1st Baronet, taken at Arundel Castle 28 July 1629, "By deed 27 May 4 Eliz., in consideration of marriage between himself and Jane, daughter of Sir Henry Weston of Sutton, Surrey, settled to uses":
https://archive.org/stream/notesofpostmorte00greauoft#page/28/mode/2up

"27 May 4 Eliz." has to be a typo, as that was only May 1562, when Thomas Bishopp was age 9. At any rate, the IPM is a contemporary record that Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not of his son Sir Richard Weston.

Thanks again to Leo, and Cheers, ----Brad

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Brad Verity
http://royaldescent.blogspot.ca/2015/05/remaining-edward-iii-descents-for.html
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n179/mode/2up
As Jane Weston, Dame Bishopp is an ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, and so of the latest royal baby, Princess Charlotte, it's good to get her sorted.
'Complete Baronetage' seems to be in error as to Jane Weston's parents. There are bios of both Sir Henry Weston and his son Sir Richard Weston in HOP.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-sir-henry-15345-92
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-richard-i-1564-1613
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-thomas-1553-1626
So it is chronologically impossible for Jane to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston and Jane Dister.
https://archive.org/stream/notesofpostmorte00greauoft#page/28/mode/2up
"27 May 4 Eliz." has to be a typo, as that was only May 1562, when Thomas Bishopp was age 9. At any rate, the IPM is a contemporary record that Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not of his son Sir Richard Weston.
Thanks again to Leo, and Cheers, ----Brad

FWIW the HOP bio of Sir Thomas Bishopp (in contrast to his CB bio) does say that his wife Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not his son Sir Richard.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/bishop-thomas-1553-1626

The family of Weston of Sutton Place is discussed in some detail in an 1893 book by Frederic Harrison, "Annals of an Old Manor-house: Sutton Place, Guildford", available here at the Internet Archive:
https://archive.org/details/annalsofoldmanor00harrrich
[Another, abridged edition of this work was published in 1899 and is also available at the Internet Archive and Google Books, but it does not have some of the supplemental materials discussed here.]

Harrison does not itemize the children of Sir Henry Weston, but he does quote the will of Sir Henry, in which his daughter Jane is named as his sole executrix. Presumably this is the Jane who married Sir Thomas Bishopp.

The 1893 edition of the Harrison work (but not the 1899 edition) also has some discussion (in Appendix I) of the elaborate (and possibly fraudulent) pedigree of various Weston families prepared in 1632 by the herald Sir William Segar. This pedigree was discussed here back in 2011 regarding the purported connections of various Weston families (who were probably not connected in reality). Harrison describes it as 'a very fine specimen of the quaint, complicated, and pompous genealogies which were in great vogue down to the times of the Long Parliament". The 1632 pedigree was reproduced in plates which appeared at the end of the 1893 edition of the Harrison. In the scanned version, the plates appear in segments and need to be blown up substantially to be even somewhat readable, which makes the connections hard to follow. But it's possible that this pedigree, which according to Harrison was followed by many subsequent historians, is the source of the misplacement of Jane Weston the wife of Sir Thomas Bishopp.

[Brad Verity]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
https://archive.org/details/annalsofoldmanor00harrrich
[Another, abridged edition of this work was published in 1899 and is also available at the Internet Archive and Google Books, but it does not have some of the supplemental materials discussed here.]
Harrison does not itemize the children of Sir Henry Weston, but he does quote the will of Sir Henry, in which his daughter Jane is named as his sole executrix. Presumably this is the Jane who married Sir Thomas Bishopp.

Many thanks for the link to the Frederic Harrison book. Harrison says, on p. 163, when itemizing the Sutton portraits, "Portrait of a young lady, dated 1610, aetat. eighteen. This may be Jane Weston, daughter of Sir Richard Weston the second, and sister of the agriculturist. She married Sir Thomas Bishop, Bart.":
https://archive.org/stream/annalsofoldmanor00harrrich#page/378/mode/2up

So Harrison agrees with CB here about Jane Bishopp being the daughter of Sir Richard Weston.

As John pointed out, the book contains a copy of Sir Henry Weston's will, dated 16 Nov. 1588, in which he refers to her as "Jane Weston my daughter" several times, and appoints her sole executor. It seems far more likely from the context of his will that Sir Henry is referring to his blood daughter Jane, and not his daughter-in-law Jane, wife of Sir Richard Weston. The will was proved 6 May 1592 by Thomas Lovell notary public and "Jane filie dci defuncti Et exequutricis". Since we aren't given Jane's surname, we cannot tell from the probate whether or not she was married in 1592:
https://archive.org/stream/annalsofoldmanor00harrrich#page/468/mode/2up

The only two children whom Sir Henry mentions are his son Richard and his daughter Jane. So if he had a daughter Elizabeth, as per the Weston pedigree from the 1623 Visitation of Surrey, she died before 1588:
http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationscoun01banngoog#page/n22/mode/2up

I checked Richard K. Evans's 2007 book 'The Ancestry of Diana Princess of Wales for Twelve Generations'. He states, on p. 306,
"SIR THOMAS BISHOPP, 1ST BARONET, M.P. 1584, 1586 and 1610-11, Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex 1584/85 and 1601-2, born in 1553 and died before 14 Feb. 1626/27. He married, 1st, 19 Sept. 1577, Anne Cromer, daughter of William Cromer and Margaret Kempe. He married, 2nd, at Findon, Sussex 7 Aug. 1600, 5793. JANE WESTON", and the only two sources he cites for the couple are "The Complete Baronetage, 1: 156; The History of Parliament 1558-1603, 1: 439".

But neither of those two sources has such a specific date of marriage for Sir Thomas Bishopp and Jane Weston. CB doesn't provide any date, while Sir Thomas's HOP bio says "before 1589". Sir Thomas's most recent HOP bio, in the 1604-1629 series, published in 2010, says they were married "c.1589":
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-thomas-1553-1626

Evans must have gotten his date of marriage for the couple from the IGI, and indeed "Thomas Byshope" and "Jeen Westone" were married in Findon, Sussex on 7 August 1600:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N297-3B9

This marriage date actually fits much better with the birthdate of their son Sir Edward Bishopp, 2nd Baronet, who, according to his HOP 1604-1629 bio, was born on 6 September 1602:
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-edward-1602-1649

A 1600 marriage date makes it possible chronologically for Jane Bishopp to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston & Jane Dister. If she was born in 1584, the year after their marriage, she would've been age 16 when she married Sir Thomas Bishopp.

But we know from the IPM of Sir Thomas that his wife Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston. Sir Henry Weston and Dorothy Arundell were married in 1559. Their two sons Henry (died young) and Richard were born in 1561 and 1564 respectively, and baptized at St Peter & St Paul Church, West Clandon, Surrey:
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AWeston~%20%2Bbatch_number%3AC13526-1

Jane must've been baptized elsewhere, and so no doubt was born after her brothers. I had originally estimated her birthdate as about 1560, but I'm now revising it to circa 1567, assuming she had to be at least age 21 when her father appointed her sole executor of his will in November 1588. It puts her in her thirties in 1600-02 when she married and bore her son the second baronet, rather late for a lady's first marriage but still biologically possible.

We don't have a date of death for Dorothy Arundell, Jane's mother. Harrison in 1893, unaware of Sir Henry's second marriage to Elizabeth Lovell Repps, assumed that the unnamed wife Sir Henry leaves bequests to in his will was Dorothy, but in actuality it had to have been Elizabeth, whose first husband Henry Repps died 10 October 1566. Harrison includes a portrait of Dorothy Arundell, and states (p. 92), "The date of the picture was about 1575, when she was about thirty-five":
https://archive.org/stream/annalsofoldmanor00harrrich#page/200/mode/2up

A full-color version of the portrait is here, with the first name erroneously 'Margaret', as in the Weston pedigree from the 1623 Visitation of Surrey. As Harrison points out, the baptism entries for her sons at West Clandon prove the Arundell family pedigrees correct in that her first name was 'Dorothy', not 'Margaret':
http://www.gogmsite.net/the_late_farthingale_era_fr/ca-1610-1616-margaret-arund.html

At any rate, it appears Dorothy Arundell Weston lived to at least 1575.

As Jane Weston Bishopp is a 12th-generation ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, we don't know where Richard K. Evans would've fallen on her parentage: Sir Richard Weston & Jane Dister as in his one source Complete Baronetage, or Sir Henry Weston & Dorothy Arundell as in his other source HOP, which appears to be the correct parents.

Cheers, ----Brad

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Brad Verity
So it is chronologically impossible for Jane to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston and Jane Dister.
https://archive.org/stream/notesofpostmorte00greauoft#page/28/mode/2up
"27 May 4 Eliz." has to be a typo, as that was only May 1562, when Thomas Bishopp was age 9. At any rate, the IPM is a contemporary record that Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not of his son Sir Richard Weston.

This family appears in the 1623 Visitation of Surrey, the apparent informant being Sir Richard, grandson of Sir Henry. It gives Henry one daughter, Elizabeth, s.p., while the informant gave none of his own siblings. Clearly it is not a complete account.

taf

[wjhonson]

Post by Brad Verity
http://royaldescent.blogspot.ca/2015/05/remaining-edward-iii-descents-for.html
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n179/mode/2up
As Jane Weston, Dame Bishopp is an ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, and so of the latest royal baby, Princess Charlotte, it's good to get her sorted.
'Complete Baronetage' seems to be in error as to Jane Weston's parents. There are bios of both Sir Henry Weston and his son Sir Richard Weston in HOP.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-sir-henry-15345-92
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-richard-i-1564-1613
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-thomas-1553-1626
So it is chronologically impossible for Jane to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston and Jane Dister.
https://archive.org/stream/notesofpostmorte00greauoft#page/28/mode/2up
"27 May 4 Eliz." has to be a typo, as that was only May 1562, when Thomas Bishopp was age 9. At any rate, the IPM is a contemporary record that Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not of his son Sir Richard Weston.
Thanks again to Leo, and Cheers, ----Brad

The marriage record for Elizabeth Bishopp (daughter of this Jane) to John Gresham has been found 14 Dec 1612 at Parham Sussex

[a***@aol.com]

Post by wjhonson

Post by Brad Verity
http://royaldescent.blogspot.ca/2015/05/remaining-edward-iii-descents-for.html
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n179/mode/2up
As Jane Weston, Dame Bishopp is an ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, and so of the latest royal baby, Princess Charlotte, it's good to get her sorted.
'Complete Baronetage' seems to be in error as to Jane Weston's parents. There are bios of both Sir Henry Weston and his son Sir Richard Weston in HOP.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-sir-henry-15345-92
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/weston-richard-i-1564-1613
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/bishopp-sir-thomas-1553-1626
So it is chronologically impossible for Jane to have been the daughter of Sir Richard Weston and Jane Dister.
https://archive.org/stream/notesofpostmorte00greauoft#page/28/mode/2up
"27 May 4 Eliz." has to be a typo, as that was only May 1562, when Thomas Bishopp was age 9. At any rate, the IPM is a contemporary record that Jane was the daughter of Sir Henry Weston, not of his son Sir Richard Weston.
Thanks again to Leo, and Cheers, ----Brad

The marriage record for Elizabeth Bishopp (daughter of this Jane) to John Gresham has been found 14 Dec 1612 at Parham Sussex

Does anyone know the children of this couple? michael kearney ***@aol.com