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(Medieval Conundrum) Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
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Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-01 23:12:25 UTC
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(Medieval Conundrum)Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/11/21/1810946115

That mitochondrial or mtDNA inheritance occurs only through the maternal line, which is currently central to genealogical testing, is now determined to be a false theory; thus, invalidating any scientific proof statement, which attempts to conclusively present time frames or locations for any pedigree related to mitochondrial Eve.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa020350
A new study provides compelling evidence that children can inherit mitochondrial DNA from both their parents. . . . [Since putting together their initial findings, Huang and his team have already identified several more candidate families with mixed mitochondrial DNA. According to his preliminary estimates, this phenomenon may be present in as many as 1 in every 5,000 people.] [Research Note: Current world population is estimated at approximately 7.7 billion people. This indicates an estimated staggering number of individuals involved, from ancestral parentage. Statistically, (1,000,000,000 / 5,000 = 200,000 x 7.7, for a total of 1,540,000 people). Dads, Too, Can Pass on Mitochondrial DNA | NOVA | PBS | NOVA | PBS
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/dads-mitochondrial-dna/
Supplement to Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2018/11/21/1810946115.DCSupplemental
World Population Clock: 7.7 Billion People (2018) - Worldometers
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

See Also: Professional Library Sources 2018 UPDATE:
THESES & DISSERTATIONS: "Family History" & Genealogy -
[Titles listed alphabetically by year]
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/professionallibrarysources.htm#YEAR_2018

EXAMPLE TITLE:
Population genetic history and patterns of admixture
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1165836/FULLTEXT01
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?pid=diva2%3A1165836&dswid=8724
Examples from northeastern and southern Africa . . . The origin of humans lies in Africa, as has been shown by archaeology, paleontology and genetics. [Research Note: This assertion is directly contradicted by the revelations given to the Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Translator, Joseph Smith, Jr. It is known that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that Adam and Eve were the first man and the first woman to live on the earth. Adam and Eve had human sons and daughters, while residing in the area of Adam-ondi-Ahman, a historic site in Daviess County, Missouri, about five miles south of Jameson. It is located along the east bluffs above the Grand River.]
So, Joseph Smith, Jr. was right after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve_(LDS_Church)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman
taf
2018-12-02 00:13:26 UTC
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Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
(Medieval Conundrum)Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/11/21/1810946115
That mitochondrial or mtDNA inheritance occurs only through the maternal
line, which is currently central to genealogical testing, is now determined
to be a false theory; thus, invalidating any scientific proof statement,
which attempts to conclusively present time frames or locations for any
pedigree related to mitochondrial Eve.
That in some circumstances you can get non-maternal mitochondial DNA inheritance has been known for at least 20 years, so this is not exactly a news flash.

That Mr. Tinney was unaware of this fact tells us that he lacks the background and understanding of the science he is pretending to dismiss. All he knows is that the consensus of science is at odds with his personal philosophy, and therefore he is justified in telling the most outrageous lies to discredit it.

taf
Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-02 06:34:08 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
(Medieval Conundrum)Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/11/21/1810946115
That mitochondrial or mtDNA inheritance occurs only through the maternal
line, which is currently central to genealogical testing, is now determined
to be a false theory; thus, invalidating any scientific proof statement,
which attempts to conclusively present time frames or locations for any
pedigree related to mitochondrial Eve.
That in some circumstances you can get non-maternal mitochondial DNA inheritance has been known for at least 20 years, so this is not exactly a news flash.
That Mr. Tinney was unaware of this fact tells us that he lacks the background and understanding of the science he is pretending to dismiss. All he knows is that the consensus of science is at odds with his personal philosophy, and therefore he is justified in telling the most outrageous lies to discredit it.
taf
===========================


Study shows mitochondrial DNA can be passed through fathers – what does this mean for genetics?
https://phys.org/news/2018-11-mitochondrial-dna-fathers-genetics.html

TAF, you have intentionally obfuscation the fact that it is because: [Now cutting-edge research has added to the list by proving the mitochondria (the power sources in our cells) comes from both our parents and not – as biology students are taught – just from our mothers.]

[But if further research suggests that the inheritance of fathers' mitochondrial DNA is more common, our whole understanding of human migration may need to be adjusted.] And that means in a nut shell, you are built upon a sandy foundation.
Vance Mead
2018-12-02 06:58:33 UTC
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I don't know why you are attacking us with this crap. All of us here are doing research using documentary evidence. Some supplement this with DNA evidence. But nobody does medieval family history research based solely on DNA evidence.

You are attackibg windnills and straw men.
taf
2018-12-02 08:17:58 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
I don't know why you are attacking us with this crap. All of us here are doing
research using documentary evidence. Some supplement this with DNA evidence.
But nobody does medieval family history research based solely on DNA evidence.
You are attackibg windnills and straw men.
No, he thinks he is proselytizing. The scientific understanding of DNA inheritance reaches conclusions that cannot be harmonized with his personal world-view of human origins, and therefore he must denigrate / distort / misinterpret every possible aspect of DNA, so that everyone understands that he is right and the rest of the world is wrong. He has long since given up pretending it has any relationship to the topic of this group.

taf
Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-02 15:13:20 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
I don't know why you are attacking us with this crap. All of us here are doing research using documentary evidence. Some supplement this with DNA evidence. But nobody does medieval family history research based solely on DNA evidence.
You are attackibg windnills and straw men.
===========================================
Not so. I am not part of your problems. Clearly the article states: [The research, published in PNAS, showed conclusively that, in three unrelated families, mitochondria from the father's sperm had been passed to the children over several generations. Overturning scientific understanding about this fundamental "truth", opens the possibility for better treatment of mitochondrial disorders, which blight many families with devastating disease.]

[Overturning scientific understanding about this fundamental "truth"] indicates issues far beyond my personal viewpoints. Millions of people have been "led up the garden path" and there has been a lot of deception concerning the inviolable use of DNA findings, particularly in medieval genealogy, by those having gotten respected, esteemed stature, like the said TAF. It is never wise to prevaricate, quibbling or confusing the issue. The issue is not me. The issue is maintaining absolute professional integrity. No amount of financial gain is worth pretense, no matter how big the corporation, or institution of higher learning that is in the current process of promulgating, by open declaration, pedigree distortions.
TAF incorrectly opines: "It means that it has confirmed what we already knew two decades ago" Again, Not So. The earlier literature, two decades ago, was very "iffy", and so it was all swept under the rug, so to speak, even though now, it will be exceeding damaging and unpleasant, to try to keep it secret, in the future, especially for all respected generational historians, RootsTech, FamilySearch, Et cetera.
https://www.rootstech.org/
Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-02 15:52:52 UTC
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I repeat, for emphasis:
TAF, you have intentionally obfuscated the fact that it is because: [Now cutting-edge research has added to the list by proving the mitochondria (the power sources in our cells) comes from both our parents and not – as biology students are taught – just from our mothers.] . . .

The earlier literature, two decades ago, was very "iffy", and so it was all swept under the rug, so to speak, even though now, it will be exceedingly damaging and unpleasant, to try to keep it secret, in the future, especially for all respected generational historians, RootsTech, FamilySearch, Et cetera.

You can easily catch my drift, by noting, it questions present Standards for DNA Evidence, such as those offered by the Board for Certification of Genealogists.
https://bcgcertification.org/standards-for-dna-evidence/
. . .
[Sufficient verifiable data. The fourth genetic standard addresses the verifiability of data used to support conclusions.] This is the case at hand.
taf
2018-12-02 16:47:52 UTC
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So now you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating 'La, la, la, la, I can't hear you', like a five year old.

This is just the latest in Mr. Tinney's crusade against DNA, where he declares that a new finding supposedly invalidates everything those scientists claimed was true, and only Mr. Tinney's personal philosophy is correct.

taf
taf
2018-12-02 08:04:10 UTC
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Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
Study shows mitochondrial DNA can be passed through fathers – what does this
mean for genetics?
It means that it has confirmed what we already knew two decades ago.
I have done nothing of the sort. Get it through your head - it was in the 1990s that a human who inherited mitochondia and its associated mtDNA from their father was first identified. This phenomenon is only new to you.
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
[Now cutting-edge research has added to the list by proving the mitochondria
(the power sources in our cells) comes from both our parents and not – as
biology students are taught – just from our mothers.]
The biology taught students is highly simplified - general principles are given, often themselves simplified, with only an occasional exception to demonstrate that there are exceptions. Even in advanced classes, there just isn't enough time to go into the full variety of life. Even the 'central dogma' and the 'universal' genetic code have exceptions, but they get very little if any mention, and the exceptions to more limited 'rules' don't get mentioned at all. In biology, for every rule there is an exception (there are even exceptions to the rule that for every rule there is an exception.)
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
[But if further research suggests that the inheritance of fathers'
mitochondrial DNA is more common, our whole understanding of human
migration may need to be adjusted.]
Not really, not appreciably. There is simply no way you can distort this to allow your philosophy to be supportable.
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
And that means in a nut shell, you are built upon a sandy foundation.
Not really.

taf
Ian Goddard
2018-12-02 14:31:54 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
(Medieval Conundrum)Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/11/21/1810946115
That mitochondrial or mtDNA inheritance occurs only through the maternal
line, which is currently central to genealogical testing, is now determined
to be a false theory; thus, invalidating any scientific proof statement,
which attempts to conclusively present time frames or locations for any
pedigree related to mitochondrial Eve.
That in some circumstances you can get non-maternal mitochondial DNA inheritance has been known for at least 20 years, so this is not exactly a news flash.
There's a new paper in PNAS, URL buried in Tinney's usual undigested cut
& paste. The critical sentence in the abstract seems to be "Our results
suggest that, although the central dogma of maternal inheritance of
mtDNA remains valid, there are some exceptional cases where paternal
mtDNA could be passed to the offspring." It appears they've sequences
whole mtDNA genomes & have three independent multi-generational lines
but as I don't have a subscription I can't see any more than the abstract.

How this gets turned into a medieval conundrum is anybody's guess. I
suppose Tinney's guess is buried somewhere in the OP but I'm not going
to try to dig it out.

Ian
Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-02 16:22:31 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
Post by taf
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
(Medieval Conundrum)Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/11/21/1810946115
That mitochondrial or mtDNA inheritance occurs only through the maternal
line, which is currently central to genealogical testing, is now determined
to be a false theory; thus, invalidating any scientific proof statement,
which attempts to conclusively present time frames or locations for any
pedigree related to mitochondrial Eve.
That in some circumstances you can get non-maternal mitochondial DNA inheritance has been known for at least 20 years, so this is not exactly a news flash.
There's a new paper in PNAS, URL buried in Tinney's usual undigested cut
& paste. The critical sentence in the abstract seems to be "Our results
suggest that, although the central dogma of maternal inheritance of
mtDNA remains valid, there are some exceptional cases where paternal
mtDNA could be passed to the offspring." It appears they've sequences
whole mtDNA genomes & have three independent multi-generational lines
but as I don't have a subscription I can't see any more than the abstract.
How this gets turned into a medieval conundrum is anybody's guess. I
suppose Tinney's guess is buried somewhere in the OP but I'm not going
to try to dig it out.
Ian
=====================
Biparental Inheritance of Mitochondrial DNA in Humans
https://plus.google.com/118149218835758643095/posts/dzgLJ6hG2CG
taf
2018-12-02 17:05:12 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
There's a new paper in PNAS, URL buried in Tinney's usual undigested cut
& paste. The critical sentence in the abstract seems to be "Our results
suggest that, although the central dogma of maternal inheritance of
mtDNA remains valid, there are some exceptional cases where paternal
mtDNA could be passed to the offspring."
Yeah, I got that there was a new paper claiming this, but as I said, that this can happen has been long known. The authors here are playing the typical game of scientific publishing, setting up incremental work as if it was paradigm-changing, in order to make their result seem more important - even calling the standard understanding a 'central dogma' (a term with particular resonance in molecular biology that I have never seen applied to this before) is building it up just so they can knock it down.
Post by Ian Goddard
How this gets turned into a medieval conundrum is anybody's guess. I
suppose Tinney's guess is buried somewhere in the OP but I'm not going
to try to dig it out.
No, he didn't even attempt to relate it. This was a broadside directed at the use of DNA in general, because if all science is wrong (as it would have to be), then his personal philosophy can be right.

taf
Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
2018-12-04 17:29:29 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Ian Goddard
There's a new paper in PNAS, URL buried in Tinney's usual undigested cut
& paste. The critical sentence in the abstract seems to be "Our results
suggest that, although the central dogma of maternal inheritance of
mtDNA remains valid, there are some exceptional cases where paternal
mtDNA could be passed to the offspring."
Yeah, I got that there was a new paper claiming this, but as I said, that this can happen has been long known. The authors here are playing the typical game of scientific publishing, setting up incremental work as if it was paradigm-changing, in order to make their result seem more important - even calling the standard understanding a 'central dogma' (a term with particular resonance in molecular biology that I have never seen applied to this before) is building it up just so they can knock it down.
Post by Ian Goddard
How this gets turned into a medieval conundrum is anybody's guess. I
suppose Tinney's guess is buried somewhere in the OP but I'm not going
to try to dig it out.
No, he didn't even attempt to relate it. This was a broadside directed at the use of DNA in general, because if all science is wrong (as it would have to be), then his personal philosophy can be right.
taf
=============================
REPLY:

Senior Royalty Research Specialist Robert C. Gunderson (6 December 1931–23 June 2003[1]) was an American genealogist, whom I personally talked with at the now discontinued Royalty Identification Unit, in Salt Lake City, Utah. He was the first supervisor of the Royalty Identification Unit of the Genealogical Society of Utah and introduced the term Pedigree Collapse, first mentioned in the 1980 World Conference on Records, held in Salt Lake City, Utah. [Gunderson, who heads the Genealogical Society’s Royalty Identification Unit, has calculated that if you kept multiplying by two the progenitors of a person born today-doubling his parents, their parents, etc.-the person would have (based on an average generation length of twenty-five years) something like two hundred and eighty-one trillion forebears alive at the time of Charlemagne. Each person’s pedigree, in other words, experiences a sort of retrogressive population explosion.] Shared ancestry causes the number of distinct ancestors in the family tree of their offspring to decrease, or have Ahnenschwund, or loss in lineage. Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam" (or Y-MRCA), individuals from whom all living humans are theoretically descended; their identities are directly dependent on genealogical history (pedigree collapse). This now can no longer be genetically determined, with any substantial certainty, due to insufficient verifiable data. [Thomas Milton Tinney, a Mormon who has traced his ancestry over a hundred and fifty-two generations, right back to Adam, explains in his privately printed genealogy, a copy of which I came across at the New York Public Library. “Prior to Eve and Adam partaking of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden, there was no death, or radioactive decay. The atmosphere at the time of the pre-flood patriarchs was different from what it is today. There was no rainbow prior to the world-wide flood; also, the process of decay and degeneration was slower as can be noted by the age or longevity of the early patriarchs,” Tinney writes.]
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ancientandmoderngenealogies.htm
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/tingeo.htm
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/tingeo1.htm
http://www.dispatchesfromthevanishingworld.com/the-mountain-of-names/
[Alex Shoumatoff is one of America’s prominent literary journalists, the author of eleven books, and more than a hundred long pieces for the New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Smithsonian and other magazines.]
http://www.dispatchesfromthevanishingworld.com/about-alex-shoumatoff/

https://plus.google.com/118149218835758643095/posts/dzgLJ6hG2CG
https://blog.eogn.com/2018/12/04/mitochondria-reportedly-can-come-from-fathers-too/#more-25810
https://genealogysstar.blogspot.com/2018/11/comments-on-biparental-inheritance-of.html
taf
2018-12-04 18:08:29 UTC
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Which, didn't reply to anything, as per the usual.
Post by Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr.
[Thomas Milton Tinney, a Mormon who has traced his ancestry over a hundred
and fifty-two generations, right back to Adam, explains in his privately
printed genealogy, a copy of which I came across at the New York Public
Library. “Prior to Eve and Adam partaking of the forbidden fruit in the
Garden of Eden, there was no death, or radioactive decay. The atmosphere at
the time of the pre-flood patriarchs was different from what it is today.
There was no rainbow prior to the world-wide flood; also, the process of
decay and degeneration was slower as can be noted by the age or longevity
of the early patriarchs,” Tinney writes.]
So in his own mind, Mr. Tinney not only thinks he is more expert at genetics better than geneticists, he also thinks he knows physics better than nuclear physicists, meteorology better than meteorologists, and optics better than optical physicists. Why am I not surprised?

Please either talk about actual medieval genealogy - specific medieval people being related to other specific medieval people, or go away.

taf
wjhonson
2018-12-05 17:46:02 UTC
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I have suggested in the past that the reason Mr Tinney is hell bent against DNA results is most likely because his own DNA results show surprises.

I don't think it's necessarily about human origins.
I think it's about his own *recent* origins

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