Discussion:
Agnes de Verdun, wife of Robert Fitz William
(too old to reply)
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
2005-01-26 22:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Dear Newsgroup ~

The agreement below dated 1206 is available on the helpful online A2A
Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). It concerns a
marriage settlement for Agnes, sister of Nicholas de Verdun, who was
wife of a certain Robert Fitz William. The Nicholas de Verdun involved
in this record is presumably Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231), of Alton,
Staffordshire, which Nicholas is known to have owned property in
Warwickshire and Leicestershire. If anyone has further particulars on
Robert Fitz William, or his wife, Agnes, I'd appreciate hearing from
them here on the newsgroup.

Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231) and his wife, Clemence le Botiller, have
many modern descendants through their daughter and heiress, Rohese de
Verdun, who married Thebaud (or Tebaud) le Botiller.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Derbyshire Record Office: Woolhouse and Hallowes of Glapwell
Reference: D187/1/1

Agreement between Nicholas de Verdun and Robert son of William by which
Nicholas gave to Robert in free marriage with his sister Agnes 110
shillings' worth of land and 1 pound of pepper, that is 105 shillings'
worth of land in Rugby (Warwickshire) and Halstead and 5 shillings'
worth in Skeffington, all in Leicestershire. Further details include
Nicholas's undertaking to make Robert a knight or find the cost of
having him knighted. Dated 21 May 1206.
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-23 19:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Richardson ***@msn.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
The agreement below dated 1206 is available on the helpful online A2A
Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). It concerns a
marriage settlement for Agnes, sister of Nicholas de Verdun, who was
wife of a certain Robert Fitz William. The Nicholas de Verdun involved
in this record is presumably Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231), of Alton,
Staffordshire, which Nicholas is known to have owned property in
Warwickshire and Leicestershire. If anyone has further particulars on
Robert Fitz William, or his wife, Agnes, I'd appreciate hearing from
them here on the newsgroup.
Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231) and his wife, Clemence le Botiller, have
many modern descendants through their daughter and heiress, Rohese de
Verdun, who married Thebaud (or Tebaud) le Botiller.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Derbyshire Record Office: Woolhouse and Hallowes of Glapwell
Reference: D187/1/1
Agreement between Nicholas de Verdun and Robert son of William by which
Nicholas gave to Robert in free marriage with his sister Agnes 110
shillings' worth of land and 1 pound of pepper, that is 105 shillings'
worth of land in Rugby (Warwickshire) and Halstead and 5 shillings'
worth in Skeffington, all in Leicestershire. Further details include
Nicholas's undertaking to make Robert a knight or find the cost of
having him knighted. Dated 21 May 1206.
Hello Douglas, I are you still interested in the Robert fitz William who married Agnes de Verdun, daughter of Bertram de Verdun and sister of Nicholas de Verdun?

Robert
Nancy Piccirilli
2020-05-27 22:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Richardson ***@msn.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
The agreement below dated 1206 is available on the helpful online A2A
Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). It concerns a
marriage settlement for Agnes, sister of Nicholas de Verdun, who was
wife of a certain Robert Fitz William. The Nicholas de Verdun involved
in this record is presumably Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231), of Alton,
Staffordshire, which Nicholas is known to have owned property in
Warwickshire and Leicestershire. If anyone has further particulars on
Robert Fitz William, or his wife, Agnes, I'd appreciate hearing from
them here on the newsgroup.
Nicholas de Verdun (died 1231) and his wife, Clemence le Botiller, have
many modern descendants through their daughter and heiress, Rohese de
Verdun, who married Thebaud (or Tebaud) le Botiller.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Derbyshire Record Office: Woolhouse and Hallowes of Glapwell
Reference: D187/1/1
Agreement between Nicholas de Verdun and Robert son of William by which
Nicholas gave to Robert in free marriage with his sister Agnes 110
shillings' worth of land and 1 pound of pepper, that is 105 shillings'
worth of land in Rugby (Warwickshire) and Halstead and 5 shillings'
worth in Skeffington, all in Leicestershire. Further details include
Nicholas's undertaking to make Robert a knight or find the cost of
having him knighted. Dated 21 May 1206.
Hi all
Agnes de Verdun is shown in Later Descents of Domesday Holders of Land, by S. P. H. Statham, Journal of Derbyshire Archaeological and Natural History Society, New Series vol. 2, Ingelram chart I, as wife of Robert Ingram (died 1225). Hope this helps.
Nancy
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-28 23:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Nancy , thank you for the info, can clarify who this Robert Ingram is: Coukld he be perhpas Robert de Alferton who's father may have been an Ingram or Ingelram

I have checked the source, I am unable to laocate it among the DErbyshire volumes. https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/daj/volumes.cfm

Can you please copy and paste the direct link please. I checked vol. 2.

Thank you..

Can anyone else confirm this marriage.
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-29 09:03:29 UTC
Permalink
The marriage contract between the Verdun family dated 1206, for Agnes de Verdun was to a "Robert fitz William" , who is a son of William de Jorz (Jort]. The two main witnesses being curiously left out by Richardson are the clue.

Robert
Nancy Piccirilli
2020-05-29 18:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
The marriage contract between the Verdun family dated 1206, for Agnes de Verdun was to a "Robert fitz William" , who is a son of William de Jorz (Jort]. The two main witnesses being curiously left out by Richardson are the clue.
Robert
Hi again
I do not have the link; I have the original volume but unfortunately it is in storage. I will try to locate it. But it is JDNANHS New Series volume 2. Sorry for the confusion.
Nancy
Nancy Piccirilli
2020-05-29 19:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by t***@gmail.com
The marriage contract between the Verdun family dated 1206, for Agnes de Verdun was to a "Robert fitz William" , who is a son of William de Jorz (Jort]. The two main witnesses being curiously left out by Richardson are the clue.
Robert
Hi again
I do not have the link; I have the original volume but unfortunately it is in storage. I will try to locate it. But it is JDNANHS New Series volume 2. Sorry for the confusion.
Nancy
Hi again
I found the correct volume, it is volume 49 and the subject is Alfreton, the Ingelram chart appears between pp. 287-288. I found the journal on www.archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives. I don't know why the title page identified it as NS 2. Sorry.
Nancy
Nancy Piccirilli
2020-05-29 19:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by t***@gmail.com
The marriage contract between the Verdun family dated 1206, for Agnes de Verdun was to a "Robert fitz William" , who is a son of William de Jorz (Jort]. The two main witnesses being curiously left out by Richardson are the clue.
Robert
Hi again
I do not have the link; I have the original volume but unfortunately it is in storage. I will try to locate it. But it is JDNANHS New Series volume 2. Sorry for the confusion.
Nancy
Hi again
I found the correct volume, it is volume 49 and the subject is Alfreton, the Ingelram chart appears between pp. 287-288. I found the journal on www.archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives. I don't know why the title page identified it as NS 2. Sorry.
Nancy
Note. I just tried this link and it did not work. Please google Archaeology Data Service. My apologies. My right hand is in a cast.
Nancy
John Higgins
2020-05-29 21:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by Nancy Piccirilli
Post by t***@gmail.com
The marriage contract between the Verdun family dated 1206, for Agnes de Verdun was to a "Robert fitz William" , who is a son of William de Jorz (Jort]. The two main witnesses being curiously left out by Richardson are the clue.
Robert
Hi again
I do not have the link; I have the original volume but unfortunately it is in storage. I will try to locate it. But it is JDNANHS New Series volume 2. Sorry for the confusion.
Nancy
Hi again
I found the correct volume, it is volume 49 and the subject is Alfreton, the Ingelram chart appears between pp. 287-288. I found the journal on www.archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives. I don't know why the title page identified it as NS 2. Sorry.
Nancy
Note. I just tried this link and it did not work. Please google Archaeology Data Service. My apologies. My right hand is in a cast.
Nancy
This appears to be the volume you're looking for:

https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/daj/contents.cfm?vol_id=1038

It seems that the Society began a double-numbering system for their journal volumes, starting with vol. 48 which is new series vol. 1. Go figure...
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-30 13:32:02 UTC
Permalink
The Glapwell charters clearly point to a "Robert fitz William" as being abt. 11 years at the time of the Charter in 1206, when the marriage contract was made. It is this Robert fitz William who marries Agnes de Verdun. Douglas Richardson curiously makes no mention of the primary witnesses being Thomas and Hugh Dispenser. This would point to "Robert fitz William" being Robert son of Wiliam de Jort [Jorz], who with Thomas Dispenser jointly donates land at Halliwell Hawe, Charnwood forest to Garendon Abbey. The Jorts and Depensers jointly held the manor of Loughborough, Leiscester.

Robert
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-30 14:56:29 UTC
Permalink
THE GLAPWELL CHARTERS will show the info that relates to this issue.

https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-2300-1/dissemination/pdf/076/DAJ_v076_1956_001-144.pdf

page XXI; 1-4

Robert
t***@gmail.com
2020-05-30 15:04:29 UTC
Permalink
I suspect many might wonder who the "Geoffrey de Cestria" who is mentioned in narrative who upon dying his wife Isabel was offered to Hugh Despenser, but she marries someone else . This Geoffrey is the son of John the Constable of Cheshire.

Geoffrey of Chester was a younger son of John the constable of Chester (E.C.C., p. 20), but he survived until 1205-6

Robert

Loading...