Discussion:
New Light on Owen Tudor, Esq. (died 1461), husband of Katherine of France, Queen of England
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c***@gmail.com
2019-07-11 19:42:11 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

There is limited knowledge about the life of Owen Tudor, Esquire, following the death of his wife, Katherine of France, Queen of England, in 1437. Owen Tudor is perhaps better known in history as the paternal grandfather of King Henry VII of England and ancestor of all subsequent monarchs of Great Britain.

Sometime ago I determined that “Owen Tudur, esquire” was appointed Captain of Règnéville in Normandy in December 1444, which post he held until Sept. 1449, when he surrendered it to Admiral de Coëtivy after six days of siege [see Revue des Questions Historiques, 92 (1912): 308].

Thanks to Vance Mead's AALT Common Pleas indices, recently I encountered three new Common Pleas lawsuits involving Owen Tudor, Esquire, for the year 1444. The first lawsuit below indicates Owen was then living in London, dwelling in the household of Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester. The second and third lawsuits below also indicate that he was a resident of London, but the third lawsuit adds that he was also of Anglesey in North Wales. Owen Tudor's relationship to Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, is previously unknown to historians.

1. In Hilary term 1444 Ralph Holand, Citizen of London, sued Owen ap Mered, Esq., of London, alias Owen ap Teder, dwelling with Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6 13s. 4d.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/732, image 999f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no732/aCP40no732fronts/IMG_0999.htm).

2. In Hilary term 1444 John Sturgeon, Citizen and mercer of London, sued Oweyn Meredyth, Esq., of London, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £11 9s. 4d.

Reference:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/732, image 1059f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no732/aCP40no732fronts/IMG_1059.htm).

3. In Hilary term 1444 Ralph Saye, Citizen and grocer of London, sued Owen ap Meredyth, Esq., of London, alias of Anglesey, North Wales, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £20.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/732, image 1254d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no732/bCP40no732dorses/IMG_1254.htm).

Besides the above three lawsuits, I've encountered yet another lawsuit involving a certain Owen Meredewith, Esq., of London in the year 1458. This defendant in this lawsuit is possibly Owen Tudor.

1. In Hilary term 1458 Philippe, widow of Henry Kent, Citizen and draper of London, administratrix of the goods and chattels of the said Henry Kent, who died intestate, sued Owen Meredewith, Esq., of London, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of 43s. 7d.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/788, image 1015f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no788/aCP40no788fronts/IMG_1015.htm).

In closing, I wish to extend special thanks to Vance Mead for creating these most welcome Common Pleas indices.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Peter Stewart
2019-07-11 23:54:35 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
There is limited knowledge about the life of Owen Tudor, Esquire, following the death of his wife, Katherine of France, Queen of England, in 1437. Owen Tudor is perhaps better known in history as the paternal grandfather of King Henry VII of England and ancestor of all subsequent monarchs of Great Britain.
Sometime ago I determined that “Owen Tudur, esquire” was appointed Captain of Règnéville in Normandy in December 1444, which post he held until Sept. 1449, when he surrendered it to Admiral de Coëtivy after six days of siege [see Revue des Questions Historiques, 92 (1912): 308].
When you come to print this information, it would be better to leave off
the imaginary e-grave in Regnéville. If in doubt over correct modern
spelling it may be useful to look for the official websites of foreign
places, in this case here: http://www.regneville-sur-mer.fr/.

Peter Stewart
c***@gmail.com
2019-07-13 20:57:41 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

In my post two days ago, I gave three or four Common Pleas lawsuits involving Owen Tudor, Esquire (died 1461), the husband of Katherine of France, widow of King Henry V. In these various lawsuits, Owen Tudor occurs successively as Owen ap Mered, Esq., alias Owen ap Teder; Oweyn Meredyth, Esq.; Owen ap Meredyth, Esq.; and Owen Meredewith, Esq.

The reader may be confused as to why Owen Tudor appears under these different name forms. The answer is simple. Owen Tudor being Welsh commenced life in England using his full patronymic name form, Owen ap Meredith ap Tudor. Eventually he shorted his name to Owen [ap] Meredith OR to Owen [ap] Tudor.

The noted medieval historian, Stanley Bertram Chrimes, in his book, Henry VII, published in 1972, pages 11-12 discusses the evolution of Owen Tudor's name.

"The allegation often made that Owen at some time adopted as his patronymic not his father's name but his grandfather's appears to be a delusion, It seems that it was the Crown that made the choice for him. The references given above indicate that for many years he was variously designated in letters patent or close as Owen ap Meredith ap Tudur, Owen Meredith, Owen ap Meredith, Owen ap Tuder (1438, Foedera, X, 709, C.P.R., III, 182). He called himself Owen ap Meredith in his petition to the commons in 1432; his sons were at first called Edmund or Jasper ap Meredith ap Tydier, and in the creating of their earldoms in 1452 no patronymic at all was used. His general pardon in 1439 was made out to Owen Meredith, but from 1459 his designation became Owen Tuder esquire. It was thus that in time we acquired a Tudor instead of a Meredith dynasty." END OF QUOTE.

While Mr. Chrimes correctly notes that Owen Tudor occurs under various name forms, he appears to be in error in assuming that it was the crown who made his final designation as "Owen Tudor." My research indicates that it was Owen Tudor himself who morphed himself from Owen ap Meridith ap Tudor to Owen [ap] Meredith, and Owen [ap] Tudor.

Here is the order I have in the occurence of Owen's various name forms. I have put astericks *** by records which were generated by Owen himself. Some of the records below were not considered by Mr. Chrimes.

1. 1421: “Owen Meriddith”
2. *1432, as “Owen ap Meridith” ***
3. 1438: Owen ap Meredith ap Tider.
4. 1439: Owen Meredith, esquire
5. 1439: Owen ap Meredith, esquire ***
6. 1440: “Oweyn ap Tuder, esquire” ***
7. 1441 "Owen ap Meredith, esquire" ***
8. 1442 "Owen ap Meredyth ap Tudur" ***
9. 1442 “Owyn ap Tuder"
10. 1442 “Owen Meredith Tudre, esquire”
11. 1444 "Owen ap Mered, Esq., alias Owen ap Teder" ***
12. 1444 "Oweyn Meredyth, Esq." ***
13. 1444 Owen ap Meredyth, Esq. ***
14. 1444 “Owen Meredith Tudre, esquire”
15. 1444 “Owen Tudur, esquire”
16. 1458 "Owen Meredewith, Esq." ***
17. 1459 "Owin Tudour"
18. 1460 "Owin Tudyr"

As we can see, Owen Tudor shows up as "Owen ap Meredyth ap Tudur" and "Owen Meredith Tudre" as late as 1442. He occurs as "Owen ap Mered" alias "Owen ap Teder" and as "Owen Meredith Tudure" in 1444. The last two records dated 1459 and 1460 he is simply "Owin Tudour" and "Owin Tudyr," thus completing his transformation to Tudor as his surname.

A review of the above indicates that Owen Tudor used both his father's patronymic Meredith and his grandfather's patronymic Tudor throughout his life. In fact, he appears to have gone back and forth between the two patronymics. As late as 1442 the crown itself was using both patronymics, before seeming to settle on "ap Tudor" or simply "Tudor."

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Peter Stewart
2019-07-13 23:51:15 UTC
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On 14-Jul-19 6:57 AM, ***@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>
Post by c***@gmail.com
A review of the above indicates that Owen Tudor used both his father's patronymic Meredith and his grandfather's patronymic Tudor throughout his life.
As every genealogist should know, a patronymic indicates the name of a
father or ancestor - in this case, Owen's patronymic was Meredith (from
his father, or Tudor from an ancestor), his father's patronymic was
Tudor and his grandfather's patronymic was Goronwy.

Peter Stewart

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