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Coat of arms of Cyprian Southack of Boston, Mass.
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r***@yahoo.com
2018-11-14 20:56:22 UTC
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_The Heraldic Journal_ notes that the depiction of arms on the gravestone of Cyprian Southack in the Granary Burial ground, Boston, Mass., was found to match that of "George Sowdeak, grocer" in the "MS. Promptuarium Armorum of Wm. Smith, Rouge-Dragon."

https://books.google.com/books?id=ku_A9O5M5M4C&pg=PA47&dq=sowdeak+blazoned+armorum&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4w4iQ4tTeAhUKzlMKHTAlAmYQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=sowdeak%20blazoned%20armorum&f=false

It seems that something similar, along with a pedigree chart including the said George Sowdeake, grocer of London, occurs in the 1568 Visitation of London:

https://books.google.com/books?id=W1s_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=soudeak+london&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqiZry4NTeAhVLslMKHZ2ABk4Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=soudeak%20london&f=false
r***@yahoo.com
2018-11-14 20:59:36 UTC
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A drawing of the arms from the Southack stone in Granary Burial ground:

https://books.google.com/books?id=xfYrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA138&dq=%22record+of+the+yard+as+belonging+to%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_1deB49TeAhWF0FMKHXjAC3MQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22record%20of%20the%20yard%20as%20belonging%20to%22&f=false
RJO
2018-11-15 00:34:49 UTC
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Interesting fellow. He appears to have his own Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprian_Southack
taf
2018-11-15 00:37:43 UTC
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Post by r***@yahoo.com
https://books.google.com/books?id=W1s_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=soudeak+london&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqiZry4NTeAhVLslMKHZ2ABk4Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=soudeak%20london&f=false
Fisher's Catalogue of the Tombs in the Churches of the City of London, A.D. 1666 provides more detail on the pedigree subject:

"Gunston. Philip Gunter, Esq; Alderman, of London, d. 1582, at. 92. & wife Anne, dau. of Henry Barley, of Albery, co. Hertford, Esq., 1585. & dau. Elisabeth, 1621. (S. Michael, Cornhill.) wid. of George Southaicke, of London, a Governor of Bridewell Hospital; father of Appolina Southaicke, who married 1st William ffayrefax, of London, Goldsmith; & 2ndly Thomas Browne, Esq., of Shredicote & Caverswall, co. Stafford, & of Bentley Hall, co. Derby, (b. 1561 : d. 1633.) Procurator-General of the Arches Court of Canterbury, & co-Governor of Charterhouse."

https://books.google.com/books?id=_1mcsP6OC4IC&pg=PA41

The will of this William Fairfax was published in Misc Gen & Her:

https://books.google.com/books?id=FlpIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA12


We find the same arms in a later visitation on the distaff side of the Robinson pedigree (1633). It shows Robert Robinson of London Merchant living 1633 (who signed the pedigree), marrying Apulina, daughter of Thomas Southalke of London Merchant. It gives two arms, one a historical quartered Robinson, the other Robinson impaling the arms we have been seeing, with a crest. (I suspect Southalke is a misreading for Southaike. It lacks the annulet difference reported in the 1568 visitation, so perhaps not directly descended from George, else it was just omitted, but the name Apolonia suggests they weren't too distant.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=iKwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=206

With this in mind, I searched for Southaike and variants and find:

Ciprian Southake, bap. 4 Apr 1665, St. Andrew Holborn, son of Ciprian and Elizabeth

Cyprian Southake of Faccombe, scrivener. Reprieved for transportation for Barbadoes Jly 1681. Hampshire.

I don't know enough about this family to know if this is a match or just a likely kinsman.

taf
taf
2018-11-15 00:50:18 UTC
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Post by taf
Cyprian Southake of Faccombe, scrivener. Reprieved for transportation for Barbadoes Jly 1681. Hampshire.
Forgot to say, this was from Coldham's Emigrants in Bondage.

The 1686 PCC will of Richard Bacon of Stepney, seaman of the Thomas and Richard, merchantman of London bound to sea, was witnessed by Cyprian Southake, scr.
taf
2018-11-15 01:15:57 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by taf
Cyprian Southake of Faccombe, scrivener. Reprieved for transportation for Barbadoes Jly 1681. Hampshire.
Forgot to say, this was from Coldham's Emigrants in Bondage.
The 1686 PCC will of Richard Bacon of Stepney, seaman of the Thomas and Richard, merchantman of London bound to sea, was witnessed by Cyprian Southake, scr.
Another will PCC 1623 Thomas Southaik, citizen & Grocer

wife Margaret, all of her children
'wives mother' Margaret Jenkinson
sister Appolonia Browne, her husband Thomas Browne
brother Mr John Robinson Esq and wife
brother Richard Morer
friend Thomas Middleton, knt
Mr Richard Cooke
brother Lawrence Carbell and wife
brother George Jenkinson
daughter Appolonia Robinson
grandchildren of [by] said daughter Margaret and John Robinson
John Thomas, grocer
poor, servants
all my children, daughter Robinson and son George excepted
friend Justice Hutton
cousin Timothy Levenge (?) Esq
son Robert Robinson, grocer

codicil adds
Thomas Bunbury, clerk of Company of Grocers
John Blackwell, curate of St Swithenes


Unfortunately, he doesn't provide the names of the 'other children'. If nothing else, this proves that the Thomas of the 1633 visitation was the son of the George of the 1568 one.

taf
taf
2018-11-15 01:47:02 UTC
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And 2 more wills:

George Southaicke 1607
daughter Appalina, who was wife of William Fairefaxe, goldsmith, dec
son Thomas Southaicke, his wife, and servants
cousin Maister Nicholas Parsons
son-in-law Maister Thomas Browne (later explicitly husband of Appalina)
wife Elizabeth
grandchild Elizabeth Fairefax
brother Robert Smith
Maister Saunders
late son Humphrey Southaicke
all the children of son Thomas
brother-in-law Thomas Forman
friend Robert Smith merchant tailor (perhaps same as 'brother' above)
sister-in-law Mistress Gunter widow
sister Forman
friend William Morres, merchant tailor
two old servants, Mabel Morris and Margaret Johnson widow
godson George Southaicke, son of Thomas
John Southaicke, son of dec. son Humphrey
George Browne, son of daughter Appallina


Robert Southaicke 1653
my three children Francis John and Mary
sister Elizabeth Neile
mother Mary Lees
brother John Lees
wife Mary


taf
JBrand
2018-11-15 02:15:20 UTC
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Interesting finds, taf. The _Dictionary of Canadian Biography_ has an entry on him, under "Southack," naming his parents as Cyprian and Elizabeth of London.

"SOUTHACK, CYPRIAN, cartographer, naval commander, member of the Nova Scotia Council; b. 1662 in London, England, son of Cyprian Southack and Elizabeth Oakley ..."

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/southack_cyprian_3E.html

The 1665 baptism you mention is probably close enough to be the same guy, given the very unusual name.
taf
2018-11-15 07:17:40 UTC
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Post by JBrand
Interesting finds, taf. The _Dictionary of Canadian Biography_ has an entry on him, under "Southack," naming his parents as Cyprian and Elizabeth of London.
"SOUTHACK, CYPRIAN, cartographer, naval commander, member of the Nova Scotia Council; b. 1662 in London, England, son of Cyprian Southack and Elizabeth Oakley ..."
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/southack_cyprian_3E.html
The 1665 baptism you mention is probably close enough to be the same guy, given the very unusual name.
I was thinking the same. The father may well be the Ciprian Sowthick of Tower Hill bur 15 November 1689, St Botolph, Aldgate.

taf
taf
2018-11-15 03:11:32 UTC
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Post by taf
George Southaicke 1607
Just found a published transcript of this one:

https://books.google.com/books?id=FlpIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA38
https://books.google.com/books?id=FlpIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA64

taf
taf
2018-11-15 03:30:22 UTC
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Three generations of the Cumberland family found in the Cal of IPMs, HVII:

John Southayke, fl 20 H VI, father of:
William Southayke, d. 7 April 1483, held several messuages in Cumberland.
Nicholas Southayke, aged 28, son and heir.

https://books.google.com/books?id=GFVOAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA45

The above John may be the one named in the CCR in 1426, when the escheator for Cumberland was ordered to take an oath from Agnes, widow of Patrick de Southayke in the presence of his cousin and heir, John de Southayke, son of William, son of the said Patrick.

taf
taf
2018-11-16 00:53:15 UTC
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More.

The first inexplicably misindexed by Ancestry.com as 'Southerby':

Humphrey Southeik, citizen and haberdasher, 1603
to be buried St. Edmunds, Lombard St.
wife Judith
son John (not yet 21)
daughter Elizabeth
daughter Judith
father George Southaike
mother
father-in-law Robert Smythe
his wife Katherine
his son Nathaniel Smythe
Marie Webbe and Suzanne Webbe
brother-in-law Thomas Browne
his wife Aparina (sic)
her daughter Elizabeth Ferfox
Thomas, George & Marie, children of Thomas Browne
brother Thomas Southaike and Margaret his wife
his children George and Aparina
brother Richard Peate and Marye his wife
poor of St. Edmund's
servant Marye Allison


The second is Judith Sowthack/Southacke, 1603, late wife Humphrey
father Robert Smythe
mother Katherine Smythe
sister Peate
brother Richard Hall Peate
cousin John Peate
brother Nathaniel Smithe
sister Marie Webbe
sister Suzan Webbe
sister Browne
son John
daughter Elizabeth
daughter Judith
Marie Sillison (?)
Mistress Brookbaink
aunt Smythe
cousin Parnell
cousins Richard, Beatrice and Anne Knowles
Elizabeth, brother Peate's maid
John Barrowes
Abraha (sic) Garrard
servant Edward Farmer
late servant Thomas Gill


The third new will is of Elizabeth 'Southwicke', widow of George (1621)
son Thomas Southwicke
daughter Appoline Browne
son-in-law Thomas Browne, her husband
daughter-in-law
children of son Thomas
children of son-in-law Thomas Browne
John Judith & Elizabeth Southwicke, children of deceased son Humphrey
granddaughter Mary Browne
Elizabeth Southwicke, daughter of son Thomas
godson Richard Southwicke, son of son Thomas
grandson Thomas Browne
George Browne his brother
George Pevison (sp?) son of Nicholas
cousin Master Williamson, proctor (?) of the Arches
(gives to son Thomas the two pictures of her father and mother)
Elizabeth Leving, Mary Browne and Apoline Browne children of daughter Appoline
Thomas Fletcher, schoolmaster of Thomas Browne's house
codicil:
grandchildren, children of son Thomas:
Elizabeth Southwicke
Richard Southwicke
Katherine Southwicke
Phillip Southwicke
cousin Robert Robinson
granddaughter Appolin Robinson
her daughter Margaret Robinson
son Thomas Southwicke
grandchild George Browne
grandchild Edmund Browne
servant Dorothy Witheringe

And the 4th new will

Richard Sowthack of London, 1629/30
Richard Cooke, minister and my father-in-law
brother George Sowthack
brother Thomas Sowthack
sister Elizabeth Sowthack
sister Katherine Southack
Richard Wild
George Page
John Skibbowe
Richard Barber
nephew John Robinson
mother Margaret Cooke


Taken together we now have:

Patrick de Sowthayke of Cumberland, d.by 1426, leaving widow Agnes
William de Sowthayke, d.by 1426
John de Southayke, fl. 1426, perhaps the same as
. . .
John Southayke, fl. 1440/1
William Southayke of Cumberland, d. 1483
Nicholas Southayke, b. ca. 1454/5, perhaps ancestor of
. . .
William Southeak of Cumberland m. Isabel Hutton
John Southeak @
Thomas Southeak
William Southeak @
Anthony Southeak @
George Southeak, @ citizen & grocer, London, b. ca. 1520, d. 9 Mar 1606, bur Northall, Herts $, m. Elizabeth dau. Philip Gunter, Alderman (b. ca. 1492)
William Southeak, b. bef. 1568, d.s.p.
Anne Southeak, b. bef. 1568, d.s.p. (unless this was error for Appolina)
Appolina Southeak, m.1 William Fairfax, m.2 Thomas Browne
Elizabeth Fairfax, m. bef. 1621 Timothy Levinge
Elizabeth Levinge %
Thomas Levinge %
William Levinge %
Timothy Levinge %
Francis Levinge %
Thomas Browne
George Browne
Mary Browne m. Stury %
Elizabeth Stury %
Apoline Stury %
Rachel Stury %
William Browne %
Edmund Browne
George Browne %
Edward Browne %
Apoline Browne %
Thomas Southeike, d. in or bef 1623, m. Margaret, dau. Robert Jenkinson*, remarried to Richard Cooke
George Southeike
Appolina Southeike, m. Robert Robinson
Margaret Robinson, b. bef. 1620
John Robinson, b.ca. 1623 (ae 10 in 1633)
Henry Robinson, b. bef. 1633
Robert Robinson, b. bef. 1633
Bridget Robinson, b. bef. 1633
Apulina Robinson, b. bef. 1633
Mary Robinson, b. bef. 1633
Elizabeth Southeike
Richard Southeike, d. 1629/30
Katherine Southeike
Philip Southeike, perh. d. by 1629/30 (not named in brother's will)
Humphrey Southeik, citizen & haberdasher, d. 1603, m. Judith, dau Robert Smythe, d. 1603
John Southeik
Elizabeth Southeik #
Judith Southeik #
(? Margaret, wife of Robert Jenkinson?)*

. . . .
Apparent family members:

Peter Southaike of London, apparently a descendant of George and Elizabeth (Gunter) $, presumably via his grandson George, or perhaps Philip
Peter Southaike, d. 15 January 1678/9, London, bur. Northall, Herts $

Three records that refer to a Cyprian Southake, perhaps the same man, perhaps two successive generations. Note, to have a daughter in 1641, he should have been born by the time of the last wills, so he, and by implication the other Cyprians, would seem to have not derived from the family of George and Elizabeth

Cyprian Southake m. Barbara
Penelope Southake, bap 25 Jan. 1639, St Martin in the Fields
Penelope Southake, bap 25 Aug. 1641, St Martin in the Fields

Cyprian Sowthaike, of St. Dunstan's West, gent. gave permission for marriage of daughter +
Barbara Sowthaike, b. ca. 1650, mar.lic. 1669 St. Andrew Holborn, William Price +

Cyprian Southake, whose son used the same convoluted arms as above family, m. Elizabeth, probably the Cyprian Southack who sued Margaret Chapman 1667 &
Cyprian Southake, bap. 4 April 1665, St Andrew Holborn, prob. immigrant


@ Perhaps the William and Anthony Southacke involved in a dispute with Elizabeth Penruddocke and George Penruddocke in 1564
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5552699
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5552563
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8923464
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14515671
George and William perhaps the men of these names who sued John Leygh in 1561
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14515431
Given their mother's name, probably the John Southake with wife Anne involved in suit over Cumberland and Westmorland sued by Thomas Hutton et al, re: composition of dower in lands formerly held by Hutton's father.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3785926
https://books.google.com/books?id=1WMsAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA491
and the John Sowthaike who joined William Hutton in suing Gerard Carlton
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lvnxBktEV1sJ:www.uh.edu/waalt/index.php/STAC_co_Cumberland+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


* Will of Robert Jenkinson (1617) names, with others, widow Margaret, son George, sister Southaike, sons-in-law Richard Moorer and Thomas Southaike and their wives, godson George Southaike, daughter Bridget given in marriage to John Robinson (1633 shows him as brother of Robert, husband of Jenkinson's granddaughter Apulina Southeike). It is unclear who the 'sister Southaike' might have been. The obvious person is Elizabeth (Gunter) Southaike, but the sister(-in-law) relationship could have arisen multiple different ways. The will of Philip Gunter names sons-in-law Thomas Altham (Phillip[a]), John Polsaind (sp? [Polsanul, Polsaunt (but unlikely as ending upright uncrossed), Paulsamd], Elizabeth), Thomas Forman (Margaret) and George Southaike (Elizabeth, again), along with sons Francis, Philip and Thomas, so no Jenkinson at that time.

# also left a legacy by uncle Nathaniel Smythe

% will of Timothy Levinge of Inner Temple names with others, wife, daughter Elizabeth, sons Thomas, William, Timothy and Francis, and, together, mother Apoline Browne, brother Stury and his wife, sister Apoline Browne, brothers George, William, Edmund and Edward Browne, nieces Elizabeth, Apoline and Rachell Stury, and other children of my brothers and sisters.

$ young Peter Southaike is buried in the same parish as George Southaik. (https://books.google.com/books?id=99MqAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA386)

& http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5197903

+ https://books.google.com/books?id=iqwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA171

taf
taf
2018-11-16 03:34:36 UTC
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Post by taf
Three records that refer to a Cyprian Southake, perhaps the same man,
perhaps two successive generations.
Cyprian Southake m. Barbara
Cyprian Sowthwick, bap. 16 Feb. 1637, St. Martin in the Fields
Post by taf
Penelope Southake, bap. 25 Jan. 1639, St Martin in the Fields
Penelope Southake, bap. 25 Aug. 1641, St Martin in the Fields
Barbara Southwaight, bap. 23 Sep. 1647, St. Martin in the Fields
Post by taf
Cyprian Sowthaike, of St. Dunstan's West, gent. gave permission for marriage
of underage daughter +
Barbara Sowthaike, b. ca. 1650, mar.lic. 1669 St. Andrew Holborn, William Price +
Perhaps the same:
1697, Cyprian Southwarke of St Martin in the Fields to be continued as a pensioner on the fund for maimed soldiers, "having served his late Majesty, King Charles the Second, and his royal father, in their wars." (if he fought for Charles I, that makes him REALLY old in 1697.)
Post by taf
Cyprian Southake, whose son used the same convoluted arms as above family,
m. Elizabeth, probably the Cyprian Southack who sued Margaret Chapman 1667. app. m2. Mary. apparently the 'Mary of Cyprian Southwick' bur. 1674, St. Giles in the Fields
Cyprian Southake, bap. 4 April 1665, St Andrew Holborn, prob. immigrant
Francis Southwark, bap. 6 July 1669, St Andrew Holborn, son 'Sippiand' & Mary

And as mentioned earlier in this thread, a Ciprian Sowthick of Tower Hill bur 15 November 1689, St Botolph, Aldgate, but this is all the way on the other side of the city. Obviously, if the very old soldier still living in 1697 is the first Cyprian, this would have to be the second, else there is another one around.

taf
JBrand
2018-11-16 13:05:39 UTC
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Interesting about the 1689 death. Somewhere--and I can't locate it again, apparently--there is a letter, dated spring 1690, by Cyprian Southack of New England, written to "his father and mother."

This might show the New Englander's father was still alive past the 1689 date, but it also seems very possible that he didn't know of his father's recent death.
Post by taf
Post by taf
Three records that refer to a Cyprian Southake, perhaps the same man,
perhaps two successive generations.
Cyprian Southake m. Barbara
Cyprian Sowthwick, bap. 16 Feb. 1637, St. Martin in the Fields
Post by taf
Penelope Southake, bap. 25 Jan. 1639, St Martin in the Fields
Penelope Southake, bap. 25 Aug. 1641, St Martin in the Fields
Barbara Southwaight, bap. 23 Sep. 1647, St. Martin in the Fields
Post by taf
Cyprian Sowthaike, of St. Dunstan's West, gent. gave permission for marriage
of underage daughter +
Barbara Sowthaike, b. ca. 1650, mar.lic. 1669 St. Andrew Holborn, William Price +
1697, Cyprian Southwarke of St Martin in the Fields to be continued as a pensioner on the fund for maimed soldiers, "having served his late Majesty, King Charles the Second, and his royal father, in their wars." (if he fought for Charles I, that makes him REALLY old in 1697.)
Post by taf
Cyprian Southake, whose son used the same convoluted arms as above family,
m. Elizabeth, probably the Cyprian Southack who sued Margaret Chapman 1667. app. m2. Mary. apparently the 'Mary of Cyprian Southwick' bur. 1674, St. Giles in the Fields
Cyprian Southake, bap. 4 April 1665, St Andrew Holborn, prob. immigrant
Francis Southwark, bap. 6 July 1669, St Andrew Holborn, son 'Sippiand' & Mary
And as mentioned earlier in this thread, a Ciprian Sowthick of Tower Hill bur 15 November 1689, St Botolph, Aldgate, but this is all the way on the other side of the city. Obviously, if the very old soldier still living in 1697 is the first Cyprian, this would have to be the second, else there is another one around.
taf
taf
2018-11-16 14:40:56 UTC
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Post by JBrand
Interesting about the 1689 death. Somewhere--and I can't locate it again, apparently--there is a letter, dated spring 1690, by Cyprian Southack of New England, written to "his father and mother."
This might show the New Englander's father was still alive past the 1689 date, but it also seems very possible that he didn't know of his father's recent death.
I did turn up another set of records. The Admiralty has three communications written in August 1678 by Cyprian Southaick from "the Turkey frigate, the Hope" reporting that their captain had just died, discussion crew, provisioning, preparedness for sea, and requesting orders. It is hard to be certain as I only have brief abstracts to go on, but based on mention in the third of the ship's Purser's books, he may have been acting in that role.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13403197
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13403199
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13403200

taf
r***@yahoo.com
2018-11-16 17:30:15 UTC
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Here is Cyprian's letter to Father and Mother, actually dated mid-June 1690:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0FVIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22may+not+perish+for+lack+of+bread%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjj47zyt9neAhVHvVMKHRVmBg0Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22may%20not%20perish%20for%20lack%20of%20bread%22&f=false
taf
2018-11-16 20:37:19 UTC
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Post by r***@yahoo.com
https://books.google.com/books?id=0FVIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22may+not+perish+for+lack+of+bread%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjj47zyt9neAhVHvVMKHRVmBg0Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22may%20not%20perish%20for%20lack%20of%20bread%22&f=false
I am leaning toward the death not being the same man as Cyprian's father. Still, the Frances Southwark born at St Andrew Holborn in 1669, son of Sippiand and Mary, could be the Francis Southworke of East End bur at St. Botolph Aldgate 20 April 1692, just a few years after that Ciprian was bur. there.

I find a link to an article "The New England Coasting Pilot of Cyprian Southack", Clara Egli LeGear, John Nickelis and George Martin, in the journal _Imago Mundi_ Vol. 11 (1954), pp. 137-144, that says he was born 25 March 1662 in London, son of "He was the son of Cyprian Southack, a lieutenant in the British Navy, and Elizabeth Oakley of Stepney, Middlesex, England", Though not identical to the DCB account, my guess is that they share a common source for his origin (unfortunately, it provides no citations for any of this biographical information).

I think it is reasonable to identify this father Cyprian with the man of the Hope in 1678. More debatable is the elder man's identity with the witness of the 1686 will of the Stepney seaman, Richard Bacon - that man's name is appended with "scr." which I take to mean 'scrivener', not a likely occupation for an R.N. Lieutenant. (Also remember we have that Cyprian, a scrivener, sentenced to transportation in 1681.)

I note that the letter mentions communicating with the Admiralty. There are no communications catalogued from this time, though from later there are maps (Colonial Office), plans and a description of coasting (Admiralty) by the New Englander, including one that is abstracted as calling him "Cyprian Southack, London, New England".

taf
taf
2018-11-17 01:14:55 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by taf
Cyprian Sowthaike, of St. Dunstan's West, gent. gave permission for
marriage of underage daughter +
Barbara Sowthaike, b. ca. 1650, mar.lic. 1669 St. Andrew Holborn,
William Price +
Just exploring variants, in their 2 Dec. 1669 St Andrew Holborn marriage she is Barbary Southwick of St. Dunstan's, London.

I looked at the St Andrew marriages back to 1654 and didn't find one for either Cyprian and Elizabeth nor Cyprian and Mary.
Post by taf
Still, the Frances Southwark born at St Andrew Holborn in 1669, son of
Sippiand and Mary, could be the Francis Southworke of East End bur at St.
Botolph Aldgate 20 April 1692, just a few years after that Ciprian was bur.
there.
That is a false lead. The IGI has the 1669 baptism as being of Francis, but the original record shows it as:

Frances Southwark, daughter of Sippiand & Mary his wife: Coffee house in Chantery Lane nere Holb: 6th [July 1669]

So, no son Francis, a daughter Frances. The earlier baptism of Cyprian is hard to read, being somewhat faded and on a page that has an odd and distracting patterning, but it also places the parents on Chancery Lane, so there seems little doubt that this the the same father with successive marriages to Elizabeth and Mary.

I would also like to revisit the chronology, which I got twisted in my head. If the 1697 source us taking a bit of licence, then the man who served Charles II and his father could actually be the Cyprian bapt in Feb 1637. It was not uncommon to go to sea at 12. That means the 1697 man could be the father of the 1665 baptism, whom we have provisionally identified with the New Englander. That would mean the 1689 death could instead be the father, grandfather of the immigrant. This would give us:

Cyprian, b. say 1615, d. 1689, m. Barbara
Cyprian, bap. 1637, fl. 1697, m1 Elizabeth Oakley, m2 Mary
Cyprian, bap. 1665, immigrant

Note also that this chronology means that a connection to the older family is indeed possible. John Southaike, son of Humphrey and Judith (Smythe), had a son whose fate is unaccounted for after the wills of his parents.

St Olave Silver Street marriages, Henry (sic) Sothaicke and Judith Smithe, July 18 1596

St. Michael Bassishaw christenings, John Sowthack, son of Humphrey Southacke, 10 July 1597

I have not found the daughters; baptisms, nor the parents' burials, but on 27 Oct 1618 St John at Hackney Nicholas Beale married to Judith Southwicke. Her will (1655) does not name her brother but does name:
little kinswoman Katherine Bird, daughter of
son-in-law Randall Bird, Merchant tailor
the rest of his children
aunt Mary Peate
(several people whose bonds she held)
daughter Esther Bird
cousin Elizabeth Ram
cousin John Southwick
cousin Francis Leiving
cousin Robert Southwick
maid Anne Cooke
cousin Joan Kniffen

It would take two 20-year generations for a son of this marriage to have himself had a son by 1637, so it is possible for the eldest Cyprian to have been son of John, son of Humphrey, but the absence of any mention of this John in his sister's will would not be in favor of this.


Some other church records that will help with family geolocation and chronology:

27 Aug 1619 St Mary, Hampton, Richmond upon Thames Margaret, daughter Thomas Southaicke and wife Margaret (must have d.y.)

7 June 1621 St Michael Cornhill Elizabeth Sowthaicke, late wife of George Sowthaicke, buried in the vault of the cloister belonging to the family of Gunters her grandfather

And regarding that Peter buried with George:

22 Nov 1671 Licence Peter Southwicke of St Barthw, Exchange, London, mercht, bachr & Martha Prescott of St Stephen, Coleman St, to be m. at St Barthw the Less

26 Nov 1671, St Botolph, Aldersgate Peter Southwicke and Martha Presiot, by lic.

15 May 1675, St Martin Orgar Peter, son Peter and Martha Southwick, born 11 May

10 Sep 1678, St Martin Orgar Peter, son Peter and Martha Southwich, born 27 Aug

taf
taf
2018-11-17 05:40:11 UTC
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And a few more...

29 Mar 1597 All Hallows Barking, Thomas Browne m. Appelina Fairfax

(second marriage of the daughter of George Southeike)

(children of her brother's daughter Appolina Southaike Robinson)
2 Mar 1619 St Swithin London Stone, Margarett dau Robert Robinson and Ap[damaged]
6 Sep 1626 St Lawrence Pountney, Henry son Robert Robinson marchynt and Appolyna
15 Oct 1629 All Hallows London Wall, Apolina dau Robert Robinson and Apolina
8 Oct 1630 All Hallows London Wall, Wm son Robert Robinson and Appuline

based on these I would reorder the children of Robert Robinson and Apolina (Southaike), listed in visitation divided by gender:
Margaret Robinson 1619
John Robinson ~1623
Bridget Robinson ~1624/5
Henry Robinson 1626
Apolina Robinson 1639
William Robinson 1630 dy
(last two order uncertain)
Robert Robinson ~1631-3
Mary Robinson ~1631-3
taf
2018-11-21 04:50:17 UTC
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I have been able to connect and extend the early part of the Southaik pedigree.

Eldred
Ketel
Orme, m. Gunhild, dau. Gospatric Earl of Dunbar, desc. from Ethelred II
Gospatric of Workington
(see note @)
Gilbert de Sutheyk
Patrick de Sutheyk, d. by 12 July 1286 (ipm), m. Eva de Levington, widow Elizabeth
Gilbert de Southayk, b. 21 December 1270, Tinwald, Scotland (poa), d. 1307 (ipm), widow Margaret
Patrick de Southayk, b. ca. 1297, Carlisle (poa), d. 1331/2 (ipm) widow Joan
Gilbert de Southayk, bap. 20 February(?) 1317/8 Waberthwait, Cumb.(poa), d. 16 May 1382 (ipm) &
Patrick de Southayk, b. bef. 1352, d. 18 January 1426 (ipm #), widow Agnes
William de Southayk, d.v.p.
John de Southayk, b. ca. 1403 *
William Southayke of Cumberland, d. 1483 (ipm)
Nicholas Southayke, b. ca. 1454/5, sued Lancelot Hutton in 1504/15 %


A John Suthayke d.1530-1531, and there was an ipm. He left a widow Elizabeth. Reversion of her dower of two meadows in Laithes within Skelton (the seat of the family), belonged to her son Richard Suthayke, chaplain, but he initiated a sale in 1532, but in turn died (with ipm) 1532-3 and the sale was completed by his brother Lancelot Suthayke, chaplain. It was still being fought over in 1548. Since this John's sons was an adult in 1532, this could hardly be John, the elder brother of George, who as fifth son was born ca. 1520. This raises the possibility that George's father William was a younger son or cousin of the main line.

George's father William is likely the William Suthayke of Hardrigg, gentlemen, fl. 1518. Given that George's mother was 'Isabel Hutton', his father is almost certainly the William Suthake who along with Richard Hoton of Hutton Roof esquire and Charles Rabanks gentleman, gave a bond in 1519. He may be the William Suthayk whose ipm also dates to 1530-1531.

In 1563, a John Suthayk was granted lands and rents to the use of Richard Blencow son of Anthony Blencow and of Appolina his wife. He sealed it with arma that were similar but not identical to those of George. Specifically, they and the bend dancetee, with the heart between two swords in chief, but below the bend was a a cross crosslet fitche. This appears to be differenced differently than George and Cyprian's from a common shield that just had the bend and swords/heart. This John could be George's brother, and I have to wonder if Appolina, wife of Andrew Blencow wasn't related, given the use ot the name by George. John is likely the John Southaick of Hardrigg who in 1569 held properties in Skelton, including a close called Skelton Wood Foot. (Another possible brother is the William Southayke, collector of customs and subsidies, 1550s and 1560s.) A Richard Southaike was admitted as Lord of Skelton Wood Foot in 1594.

Notes:
@ I find two conflicting linkages between Gilbert and Patrick. The first:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31158012641998;view=1up;seq=366
says Patrick was son of Gilbert. The second:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/n-westmorland-records/vol7/pp18-21
has a chart showing Gilbert with a son Patrick who dsp, succeeded by his nephew, another Patrick, the son of Thomas son of Gilbert (no explanation of the relationships is given).

& apparently the Gilbert who testified in 1367 in a proof of age that he was 54 and had a son Thomas who was made Canon in the priory of Carlisle more than 21 years before, and who in two years later in another poa claimed to be 50 and more

# There is also a 1442 ipm that reports a Patrick who died 3 March 1426, and names his heir as kinsman John, aged 29 & more, but this appears to refer to the same man, the details confused by the passage of time.

* Apparently the John aged 24 and more, who was kinsman and heir of Robert de Blencowe in 1442. In 1472, William Southake and Richard Blencowe were disputing land.

% Perhaps the Nicholas Suthwyk with wife Joan, daughter and executrix of John Wynkborne who sued Henry Wheler in the later 15th or early 16th century.




Generation-wise, William, father of George Southaicke could be a son of Nicholas (perhaps his ipm would illuminate this). Were this the case, and if Cyprian was a close kinsman (likely descendant) of George, as has been discussed, then this would allow Cyprian's male line to be traced prior to the Conquest, and he would at least have a distant royal like.

taf
Peter Stewart
2018-11-21 05:22:32 UTC
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Post by taf
I have been able to connect and extend the early part of the Southaik pedigree.
Eldred
Ketel
Orme, m. Gunhild, dau. Gospatric Earl of Dunbar, desc. from Ethelred II
Gospatric of Workington
I think a note should be added here: the male line may be correct but as far as I can recall from an article by Michael Anne Guido in *Foundations*, the mother of Orme Ketelsson's son Gospatric was not Gunhild but a later wife.

Peter Stewart
taf
2018-11-21 07:18:27 UTC
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Post by taf
In 1563, a John Suthayk was granted lands and rents to the use of Richard
Blencow son of Anthony Blencow and of Appolina his wife. . . . . and I
have to wonder if Appolina, wife of Andrew Blencow wasn't related,
I think I misread this - it should be parsed 'to the use of Richard (son of Anthony) and of his wife Appolina' - based on the Blencowe pedigrees I am finding, she is wife of Richard, not of Anthony.

taf
taf
2018-11-21 20:45:45 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by taf
In 1563, a John Suthayk was granted lands and rents to the use of Richard
Blencow son of Anthony Blencow and of Appolina his wife. . . . . and I
have to wonder if Appolina, wife of Andrew Blencow wasn't related,
I think I misread this - it should be parsed 'to the use of Richard (son
of Anthony) and of his wife Appolina' - based on the Blencowe pedigrees
I am finding, she is wife of Richard, not of Anthony.
I can now amplify my onomastic speculation that there could be a relationship between Appolina, wife of Richard Blencowe, and George Southaike, who gave this name to a daughter. Richard's wife, according to Gary Roberts' 600 Immigrants, was Appolina Tolson. I have now found a case involving a Richard Tolson (her nephew, per online pedigrees) in which the other party objected to one of the jurors because he was related to Tolson 'through the Southaikes'. (With the caveat that if the relationship was via his mother, who based upon online pedigrees was a Blencowe, it would not be shared by his aunt Appolina.)

taf

taf
2018-11-21 08:32:37 UTC
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Post by taf
John de Southayk, b. ca. 1403 *
William Southayke of Cumberland, d. 1483 (ipm)
Nicholas Southayke, b. ca. 1454/5, sued Lancelot Hutton in 1504/15 %
A John Suthayke d.1530-1531, and there was an ipm. He left a widow
Elizabeth. Reversion of her dower of two meadows in Laithes within
Skelton (the seat of the family), belonged to her son Richard Suthayke,
chaplain, but he initiated a sale in 1532, but in turn died (with ipm)
1532-3
This is an error on my part - Richard was John's son, not necessarily Elizabeth's.


At some point 1532-1538, "Richard Southeke, son and heir of Nicholas Southeke", brought suit against Elizabeth Southeke, over land and a mill in Skelton, detention of deeds (C 1/709/25). I think this record may be in error, as it seems to match the timing of Richard, son of John (in turn, perhaps, son of Nicholas), who left a widow Elizabeth.

taf
taf
2018-11-17 03:27:33 UTC
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Post by r***@yahoo.com
_The Heraldic Journal_ notes that the depiction of arms on the gravestone
of Cyprian Southack in the Granary Burial ground, Boston, Mass., was found
to match that of "George Sowdeak, grocer" in the "MS. Promptuarium Armorum
of Wm. Smith, Rouge-Dragon."
Returning to the start, with a source that should have come sooner, rather than later.

These arms are rather convoluted, with an arm emerging from a cloud and a heart between two inward-pointing spears, all above a fesse dancentee. This smacks of relatively recent ingenuity both in terms of the constellation of charges and their precise nature, rather than accumulation of differences. As such, I have been meaning to check a compilation of grants of arms from the Elizabethan-Stuart period published in The Genealogist about a century ago.

Well, now I have and sure enough, it is there as a recent grant, yet something is amiss. It is reported as being granted by W. Camden, Clar. to George Southaick. The problem is that Camden did not become Clarenceaux until almost 30 years after the arms first appeared in the visitation pedigree.

https://archive.org/stream/genealogist2619selb#page/n397/mode/1up

I don't know what to make of this. Normally a recent grant would point to later holders descending from that person if they weren't using it surreptitiously, yet here we have it recognized three decades before it was granted. Something is fishy (unless during one of the rounds of copying the manuscript roll, an entry that simply said it was granted by Clarenceaux - i.e. Robert Cooke, who also took the 1568 visitation - and assumed it mean the later Camden, Clarenceaux).

taf
r***@gmail.com
2018-11-17 23:31:51 UTC
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Post by r***@yahoo.com
_The Heraldic Journal_ notes that the depiction of arms on the gravestone of Cyprian Southack in the Granary Burial ground, Boston, Mass., was found to match that of "George Sowdeak, grocer" in the "MS. Promptuarium Armorum of Wm. Smith, Rouge-Dragon."
https://books.google.com/books?id=ku_A9O5M5M4C&pg=PA47&dq=sowdeak+blazoned+armorum&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4w4iQ4tTeAhUKzlMKHTAlAmYQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=sowdeak%20blazoned%20armorum&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=W1s_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=soudeak+london&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqiZry4NTeAhVLslMKHZ2ABk4Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=soudeak%20london&f=false
From "The Coasting Pilot", copy at British Museum : " At the court of White -Hall, the 26th of February, 1994. Present the Kings Most |Excellent Majesty in Council. Whereas Capt. Cyprian Southack, who has been for several years employed by the Gov't. of New England at Sea, and as has performed divers signal services in several expeditions against the french , having had the honour to kiss His Majesty's hand , presented to his Majesty a draught of New England and New-Found-Land...[Newfoundland,CAN]

RB
r***@gmail.com
2018-11-17 23:33:36 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by r***@yahoo.com
_The Heraldic Journal_ notes that the depiction of arms on the gravestone of Cyprian Southack in the Granary Burial ground, Boston, Mass., was found to match that of "George Sowdeak, grocer" in the "MS. Promptuarium Armorum of Wm. Smith, Rouge-Dragon."
https://books.google.com/books?id=ku_A9O5M5M4C&pg=PA47&dq=sowdeak+blazoned+armorum&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4w4iQ4tTeAhUKzlMKHTAlAmYQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=sowdeak%20blazoned%20armorum&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=W1s_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=soudeak+london&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqiZry4NTeAhVLslMKHZ2ABk4Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=soudeak%20london&f=false
From "The Coasting Pilot", copy at British Museum : " At the court of White -Hall, the 26th of February, 1994. Present the Kings Most |Excellent Majesty in Council. Whereas Capt. Cyprian Southack, who has been for several years employed by the Gov't. of New England at Sea, and as has performed divers signal services in several expeditions against the french , having had the honour to kiss His Majesty's hand , presented to his Majesty a draught of New England and New-Found-Land...[Newfoundland,CAN]
RB
Should read 1694..not 1994, my apologies.
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