Discussion:
Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset (Fledburgh)
(too old to reply)
W***@aol.com
2006-05-20 02:42:07 UTC
Permalink
In the old DNB entry for "Villiers, Edward" it remarks that
Mary [Beaumont], the Countess of Buckingham died 19 Apr 1632 and buried aged
63 in St Edmund's Chapel, Westminster Abbey

Here we have an opposite problem to the last one I posed.
1) d aged 63
2) dau of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield
3) son of Mary Basset who d 6 Jul 1539
4) dau of William Basset of Fledburgh who d "bef 1442" as Leo has it.

4 implies that Mary Basset was born by 1442.
Yet 1 implies her granddaughter was born 1568/9

That isn't possible in my opinion.

Either we have two Mary Basset's, one the dau of William d bef 1442 and one
much younger, or the wife of William Beaumont of Cole-Orton was not named Mary
Basset

Will Johnson
John Higgins
2006-05-20 05:19:21 UTC
Permalink
If this is based on what's in Genealogics, it's almost certainly another
Paget error. Mary Basset the mother of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield is
more likely the daughter of William Basset of Blore [not Fledburgh} (d. 1497
or 1498) and Joan Byron, not William Basset of Fledburgh (d. before 1442)
and Catherine Stanhope, as Paget has it.

Moral: Don't trust Paget without first checking other sources....


----- Original Message -----
From: <***@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 7:41 PM
Subject: re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by W***@aol.com
In the old DNB entry for "Villiers, Edward" it remarks that
Mary [Beaumont], the Countess of Buckingham died 19 Apr 1632 and buried aged
63 in St Edmund's Chapel, Westminster Abbey
Here we have an opposite problem to the last one I posed.
1) d aged 63
2) dau of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield
3) son of Mary Basset who d 6 Jul 1539
4) dau of William Basset of Fledburgh who d "bef 1442" as Leo has it.
4 implies that Mary Basset was born by 1442.
Yet 1 implies her granddaughter was born 1568/9
That isn't possible in my opinion.
Either we have two Mary Basset's, one the dau of William d bef 1442 and one
much younger, or the wife of William Beaumont of Cole-Orton was not named Mary
Basset
Will Johnson
Louise Staley
2006-05-20 08:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
If this is based on what's in Genealogics, it's almost certainly another
Paget error. Mary Basset the mother of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield is
more likely the daughter of William Basset of Blore [not Fledburgh} (d. 1497
or 1498) and Joan Byron, not William Basset of Fledburgh (d. before 1442)
and Catherine Stanhope, as Paget has it.
I am very interested in this idea that Mary Basset is actually from the
Blore Bassets rather than the Fledburgh ones and was the daughter of
William of Blore. Could you provide a source for this statement?

Interestingly "The Beaumonts in History" p125 says she was the daughter
of Sir Thomas Basset of Blore and cites Farnham, Leic. Pedigrees for
this gem. While Beaumont is a very variable source, and has completely
confused the Devon and Cornish Beaumonts, it is much better on the
Leicestershire ones. Having not seen Farnham I don't know if this is an
accurate representation of what he says.
Post by John Higgins
Moral: Don't trust Paget without first checking other sources....
Post by W***@aol.com
In the old DNB entry for "Villiers, Edward" it remarks that
Mary [Beaumont], the Countess of Buckingham died 19 Apr 1632 and buried
aged 63 in St Edmund's Chapel, Westminster Abbey
The Beaumont book cites her MI which says she was 62 years, 11 months
and 19 days old at death, so born 30 April 1569
Post by John Higgins
Post by W***@aol.com
Here we have an opposite problem to the last one I posed.
1) d aged 63
2) dau of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield
3) son of Mary Basset who d 6 Jul 1539
4) dau of William Basset of Fledburgh who d "bef 1442" as Leo has it.
4 implies that Mary Basset was born by 1442.
Yet 1 implies her granddaughter was born 1568/9
That isn't possible in my opinion.
Either we have two Mary Basset's, one the dau of William d bef 1442
and one much younger, or the wife of William Beaumont of Cole-Orton
was not named Mary Basset
Will Johnson
John Higgins
2006-05-20 16:40:57 UTC
Permalink
The assignment of Mary Basset, wife of William Beaumont of Cole Orton, to
the Blore Bassets is based on an extensive pedigree of most of the Basset
branches in Nichols' Leics, vol. 4. Nichols cites as sources an MS of Sir
William Dugdale as well as an MSS collection of Sampson Erdeswicke.
Although the pedigree is quite extensive, it likely is incomplete (for
example, it does not include the Fledburgh branch at all), and I would
consider the identification of Mary's parents to perhaps be tentative at
this point.

The pedigree in Farnham referenced by "The Beaumonts in History" is not a
full pedigree of the family but simply an outline of the descent of the Cole
Orton branch from the Maureward family. My copy of the pedigree in Farnham
doesn't show any sources for the pedigree, in particular the statement that
William Beaumont mar. Mary, dau. of Thomas Basset of Fledburgh, Notts. I
suspect, however, that this may have come from the visitations of Nottingham
(published as Harleian Society vol. 4) where an unnamed daughter of "Thomas
Bassett of Fledborough" and his wife Margaret Meering is said to have mar.
an unnamed Beaumont of Cole Orton. So, we have another example of one set
of information in Nichols and another, conflicting, set in a visitation
pedigree.

If anyone has better sources on the various Basset branches and their
connections to one another, they would be welcome....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louise Staley" <***@bigpond.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by Louise Staley
Post by John Higgins
If this is based on what's in Genealogics, it's almost certainly another
Paget error. Mary Basset the mother of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield is
more likely the daughter of William Basset of Blore [not Fledburgh} (d. 1497
or 1498) and Joan Byron, not William Basset of Fledburgh (d. before 1442)
and Catherine Stanhope, as Paget has it.
I am very interested in this idea that Mary Basset is actually from the
Blore Bassets rather than the Fledburgh ones and was the daughter of
William of Blore. Could you provide a source for this statement?
Interestingly "The Beaumonts in History" p125 says she was the daughter
of Sir Thomas Basset of Blore and cites Farnham, Leic. Pedigrees for
this gem. While Beaumont is a very variable source, and has completely
confused the Devon and Cornish Beaumonts, it is much better on the
Leicestershire ones. Having not seen Farnham I don't know if this is an
accurate representation of what he says.
Post by John Higgins
Moral: Don't trust Paget without first checking other sources....
Post by W***@aol.com
In the old DNB entry for "Villiers, Edward" it remarks that
Mary [Beaumont], the Countess of Buckingham died 19 Apr 1632 and buried
aged 63 in St Edmund's Chapel, Westminster Abbey
The Beaumont book cites her MI which says she was 62 years, 11 months
and 19 days old at death, so born 30 April 1569
Post by John Higgins
Post by W***@aol.com
Here we have an opposite problem to the last one I posed.
1) d aged 63
2) dau of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield
3) son of Mary Basset who d 6 Jul 1539
4) dau of William Basset of Fledburgh who d "bef 1442" as Leo has it.
4 implies that Mary Basset was born by 1442.
Yet 1 implies her granddaughter was born 1568/9
That isn't possible in my opinion.
Either we have two Mary Basset's, one the dau of William d bef 1442
and one much younger, or the wife of William Beaumont of Cole-Orton
was not named Mary Basset
Will Johnson
davids
2006-05-28 14:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
The assignment of Mary Basset, wife of William Beaumont of Cole Orton, to
the Blore Bassets is based on an extensive pedigree of most of the Basset
branches in Nichols' Leics, vol. 4. Nichols cites as sources an MS of Sir
William Dugdale as well as an MSS collection of Sampson Erdeswicke.
Although the pedigree is quite extensive, it likely is incomplete (for
example, it does not include the Fledburgh branch at all), and I would
consider the identification of Mary's parents to perhaps be tentative at
this point.
The pedigree in Farnham referenced by "The Beaumonts in History" is not a
full pedigree of the family but simply an outline of the descent of the Cole
Orton branch from the Maureward family. My copy of the pedigree in Farnham
doesn't show any sources for the pedigree, in particular the statement that
William Beaumont mar. Mary, dau. of Thomas Basset of Fledburgh, Notts. I
suspect, however, that this may have come from the visitations of Nottingham
(published as Harleian Society vol. 4) where an unnamed daughter of "Thomas
Bassett of Fledborough" and his wife Margaret Meering is said to have mar.
an unnamed Beaumont of Cole Orton. So, we have another example of one set
of information in Nichols and another, conflicting, set in a visitation
pedigree.
If anyone has better sources on the various Basset branches and their
connections to one another, they would be welcome....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by Louise Staley
Post by John Higgins
If this is based on what's in Genealogics, it's almost certainly another
Paget error. Mary Basset the mother of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield is
more likely the daughter of William Basset of Blore [not Fledburgh} (d.
1497
Post by Louise Staley
Post by John Higgins
or 1498) and Joan Byron, not William Basset of Fledburgh (d. before
1442)
Post by Louise Staley
Post by John Higgins
and Catherine Stanhope, as Paget has it.
I am very interested in this idea that Mary Basset is actually from the
Blore Bassets rather than the Fledburgh ones and was the daughter of
William of Blore. Could you provide a source for this statement?
Interestingly "The Beaumonts in History" p125 says she was the daughter
of Sir Thomas Basset of Blore and cites Farnham, Leic. Pedigrees for
this gem. While Beaumont is a very variable source, and has completely
confused the Devon and Cornish Beaumonts, it is much better on the
Leicestershire ones. Having not seen Farnham I don't know if this is an
accurate representation of what he says.
Post by John Higgins
Moral: Don't trust Paget without first checking other sources....
Post by W***@aol.com
In the old DNB entry for "Villiers, Edward" it remarks that
Mary [Beaumont], the Countess of Buckingham died 19 Apr 1632 and buried
aged 63 in St Edmund's Chapel, Westminster Abbey
The Beaumont book cites her MI which says she was 62 years, 11 months
and 19 days old at death, so born 30 April 1569
Post by John Higgins
Post by W***@aol.com
Here we have an opposite problem to the last one I posed.
1) d aged 63
2) dau of Anthony Beaumont of Glenfield
3) son of Mary Basset who d 6 Jul 1539
4) dau of William Basset of Fledburgh who d "bef 1442" as Leo has it.
4 implies that Mary Basset was born by 1442.
Yet 1 implies her granddaughter was born 1568/9
That isn't possible in my opinion.
Either we have two Mary Basset's, one the dau of William d bef 1442
and one much younger, or the wife of William Beaumont of Cole-Orton
was not named Mary Basset
Will Johnson
davids
2006-05-28 14:48:49 UTC
Permalink
In the Bassets of Blore line there are only two knights: Sir John
Basset of Cheadle and Blore and Sir William Bassett of Blore and
Langley no Sir Thomas

Thomas one of three sons of Sir John Bassett and his wife Joan
Brailsford inherited the Brailsford Estate. He married Margaret
Mering and their daughter Joan married Ralph Shirley thus the
Brailsford Estate passed to the Shirleys.

However Stemmata Shirleanna says "Thomas Bassett of Blore and
Fledburgh". Tilley "Old Halls (of Derbyshire)" says Richard Basset
Sheriff of the county 1512 from the Basset Pedigree We take this
gentleman to be Richard Basset of Fledburgh co. Notts son of Thomas
Basset and his wife Margeria daughter of William and married to
Elizabeth daughter of John Denham vide Glovers visitation of Staffs
1503. In Derby Local Studies in the deeds room under "visitations" by
Challinor 1613 ref 6341 referreed to as "of Fledburgh". Nicholls
Bassetts of Blore pedigree shows Margaret of married Beaumont of Cole
Orton. According to an IPM dated 1477 Katherine Tunstall was seised
of Fledburgh and mention is made of Thomas Basset aged 34.

I have made a pretty thorough study of the Bassets of Blore and am
currently revising and re-writing my work but have never established a
relationship between Blore and Fledburgh.
Davids
John Brandon
2006-05-28 16:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
consider the identification of Mary's parents to perhaps be tentative at
this point.
Remember not to split your infinitives ...
W***@aol.com
2006-05-30 00:31:19 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 5/28/06 7:52:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
***@aol.com writes:

<< Thomas one of three sons of Sir John Bassett and his wife Joan
Brailsford inherited the Brailsford Estate. He married Margaret
Mering and their daughter Joan married Ralph Shirley thus the
Brailsford Estate passed to the Shirleys. >>

Other than Joan, did they also have a daughter Catherine who m Thomas Sutton
of Aram and having issue Henry Sutton of Aram who m Alice Harrington and
having issue Anne Sutton who m Henry Brooke of Cobham (d abt 10 Nov 1612).

Thanks
Will Johnson
John Higgins
2006-05-30 03:01:36 UTC
Permalink
FWIW, the sequence you show below, from Bassett of Fledburgh through Sutton
of Aram to Brooke of Cobham, does show up in visitation pedigrees -
specifically the Visitation of Notts (HSP 4).

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by W***@aol.com
In a message dated 5/28/06 7:52:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<< Thomas one of three sons of Sir John Bassett and his wife Joan
Brailsford inherited the Brailsford Estate. He married Margaret
Mering and their daughter Joan married Ralph Shirley thus the
Brailsford Estate passed to the Shirleys. >>
Other than Joan, did they also have a daughter Catherine who m Thomas Sutton
of Aram and having issue Henry Sutton of Aram who m Alice Harrington and
having issue Anne Sutton who m Henry Brooke of Cobham (d abt 10 Nov 1612).
Thanks
Will Johnson
W***@aol.com
2006-05-30 03:32:40 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 5/29/06 8:01:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
***@sbcglobal.net writes:

<< FWIW, the sequence you show below, from Bassett of Fledburgh through Sutton
of Aram to Brooke of Cobham, does show up in visitation pedigrees -
specifically the Visitation of Notts (HSP 4). >>

Does the Visitation make it specific that the Basset's were "of Fledburgh" ?
because a recent post on this thread, said that this line of Basset's were not.
Thanks
Will
John Higgins
2006-05-30 04:21:46 UTC
Permalink
As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bassett pedigrees in the Notts
visitation do explicitly refer to Thomas Bassett "of Fledborough" and his
wife Margaret Meering. [not called SIR Thomas]

The earlier posts do not say that this line was not "of Fledburgh" but
rather that the connection between the Fledburgh line and the other Bassetts
cannot be firmly determined - which I think is still true. One earlier post
suggested that this Thomas Bassett was the one otherwise said to be "of
Brailsford" and thus son of Sir John of Chedle, ancestor of the Blore
Bassetts. The Notts visitations give another hypothesis, that the Fledburgh
Bassetts were descended from an uncle of Sir Ralph Bassett of Sapcote, who
was summoned to Parliaments in 1371 and 1372 and thus deemed by later
peerage compilers to be Lord Basset of Sapcote [se CP 2:8]. But the
visitation pedigrees, while outlining a purported Bassett of Fledburgh
descent for a few generations, show a gap before our Thomas and do not
explicitly connect him to the earlier ones, while still calling him "of
Fledborough".

FWIW, there's a note in CP 2:7 that R. E. Chester Waters, "The Family of
Chester of Chicheley", pp. 197-9, has "much valuable information respecting
the family of Basset of Sapcote" and thus might shed some light if there is
in fact a connection between the Sapcote and Fledburgh Bassetts.

This line, and specifically the Fledburgh connection, continues to be a
mystery to me....

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by W***@aol.com
In a message dated 5/29/06 8:01:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<< FWIW, the sequence you show below, from Bassett of Fledburgh through Sutton
of Aram to Brooke of Cobham, does show up in visitation pedigrees -
specifically the Visitation of Notts (HSP 4). >>
Does the Visitation make it specific that the Basset's were "of Fledburgh" ?
because a recent post on this thread, said that this line of Basset's were not.
Thanks
Will
Saba Risaluddin
2021-10-24 09:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bassett pedigrees in the Notts
visitation do explicitly refer to Thomas Bassett "of Fledborough" and his
wife Margaret Meering. [not called SIR Thomas]
The earlier posts do not say that this line was not "of Fledburgh" but
rather that the connection between the Fledburgh line and the other Bassetts
cannot be firmly determined - which I think is still true. One earlier post
suggested that this Thomas Bassett was the one otherwise said to be "of
Brailsford" and thus son of Sir John of Chedle, ancestor of the Blore
Bassetts. The Notts visitations give another hypothesis, that the Fledburgh
Bassetts were descended from an uncle of Sir Ralph Bassett of Sapcote, who
was summoned to Parliaments in 1371 and 1372 and thus deemed by later
peerage compilers to be Lord Basset of Sapcote [se CP 2:8]. But the
visitation pedigrees, while outlining a purported Bassett of Fledburgh
descent for a few generations, show a gap before our Thomas and do not
explicitly connect him to the earlier ones, while still calling him "of
Fledborough".
FWIW, there's a note in CP 2:7 that R. E. Chester Waters, "The Family of
Chester of Chicheley", pp. 197-9, has "much valuable information respecting
the family of Basset of Sapcote" and thus might shed some light if there is
in fact a connection between the Sapcote and Fledburgh Bassetts.
This line, and specifically the Fledburgh connection, continues to be a
mystery to me....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Brok line - Mary Countess of Buckingham --> William Basset
(Fledburgh)
Post by W***@aol.com
In a message dated 5/29/06 8:01:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<< FWIW, the sequence you show below, from Bassett of Fledburgh through
Sutton
Post by W***@aol.com
of Aram to Brooke of Cobham, does show up in visitation pedigrees -
specifically the Visitation of Notts (HSP 4). >>
Does the Visitation make it specific that the Basset's were "of Fledburgh"
?
Post by W***@aol.com
because a recent post on this thread, said that this line of Basset's were
not.
Post by W***@aol.com
Thanks
Will
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