Discussion:
Meaning of tyse
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Ian Goddard
2020-08-29 15:03:59 UTC
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Somewhat OT.

I'm working through a bounds description said to come from the time of
Henry V. I have a location named as "Arnfield tyse". The start of the
first word is slightly damaged but Arnfield is the best bet. It would
make more sense in the circumstances if it were Greenfield but it
certainly isn't.

The location is almost certainly at this point where boundaries meet at
the arrow here
https://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=404904&y=406447&z=115&sv=404904,406447&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=611&ax=404904&ay=406447&lm=0

The previous landmarks can be located to the S an the next to the E.

There is an Arnfield but it's several miles to the SW across upland peat
and deep valleys and in the next county, now Derbyshire but originally
Cheshire. Is there any meaning of "tyse" or a homonym which could be
applied to some detached property?

"Tyas" is a known surname in the area and occurs in the place name
Farnley Tyas but the 't' is definitely lower case and it doesn't seem
likely that it would get attached to a patch of otherwise
indistinguishable bog.

Ian
Chris Dickinson
2020-08-30 14:16:11 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
Somewhat OT.
I'm working through a bounds description said to come from the time of
Henry V. I have a location named as "Arnfield tyse". The start of the
first word is slightly damaged but Arnfield is the best bet. It would
make more sense in the circumstances if it were Greenfield but it
certainly isn't.
The location is almost certainly at this point where boundaries meet at
the arrow here
https://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=404904&y=406447&z=115&sv=404904,406447&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=611&ax=404904&ay=406447&lm=0
The previous landmarks can be located to the S an the next to the E.
There is an Arnfield but it's several miles to the SW across upland peat
and deep valleys and in the next county, now Derbyshire but originally
Cheshire. Is there any meaning of "tyse" or a homonym which could be
applied to some detached property?
"Tyas" is a known surname in the area and occurs in the place name
Farnley Tyas but the 't' is definitely lower case and it doesn't seem
likely that it would get attached to a patch of otherwise
indistinguishable bog.
Ian
Presumably 'Arn' is simply the given name 'Arni' as in 'Arnside':

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arnside

Could 'tyse' be equally simple - two things being tied together (in this case two boundaries):

https://www.etymonline.com/word/tie#:~:text=Old%20English%20teag%2C%20%22cord%2C%20band%2C%20thong%2C%20fetter%2C%22%20literally,of%20Old%20English%20teon%20%22to%20draw%2C%20pull%2C%20drag%22%29.

I'm thinking here of sheep counting, where 'two' can be 'taen' and variants, again the sense of two things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_Tan_Tethera


Or could it be "Arni's tenth"? A remnant of some early division of land?

Or could it derive from 'thing/ding/theis' in the sense of an assembly - 'Arni's assembly place'

https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/mwc/62017

Chris
Vance Mead
2020-08-30 16:08:25 UTC
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I wonder if it could be related to "Tye", sometimes used in placenames. For example
there's a place called Matching Tye in Essex. Tye meant a settlement by a common or
green separated from the main village.
Vance
Post by Ian Goddard
I'm working through a bounds description said to come from the time of
Henry V. I have a location named as "Arnfield tyse". The start of the
first word is slightly damaged but Arnfield is the best bet. It would
make more sense in the circumstances if it were Greenfield but it
certainly isn't.
The location is almost certainly at this point where boundaries meet at
the arrow here
Ian Goddard
2020-08-30 17:10:36 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
I wonder if it could be related to "Tye", sometimes used in placenames. For example
there's a place called Matching Tye in Essex.
An interesting name! I bet the people who live there get fed up of the
joke.
Post by Vance Mead
Tye meant a settlement by a common or green separated from the main village.
Thanks. Hardly a settlement where it is but a detached allotment of
common rights is a possibility.

Ian
g***@gmail.com
2020-08-31 10:21:31 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
Post by Vance Mead
I wonder if it could be related to "Tye", sometimes used in placenames. For example
there's a place called Matching Tye in Essex.
An interesting name! I bet the people who live there get fed up of the
joke.
Post by Vance Mead
Tye meant a settlement by a common or green separated from the main village.
Thanks. Hardly a settlement where it is but a detached allotment of
common rights is a possibility.
Ian
As one who lives in Matching Green just a couple of miles down the road from Matching Tye I can tell you that I don't think we are particularly bothered. In fact the village is an interesting remnant of a medieval manor. The church, manor house, wedding hall and vicarage are all some distance from Matching Green the substantial part of the parish with a very large common green surrounded by several medieval houses large and small whereas Matching Tye fits the dictionary definition of a Tye in that it is an outlying patch of originally common land around a smaller green. There are other Tyes around this area too such as Harlow Tye, Housham Tye and Green Tye all old patches of common land

Geoff
Ian Goddard
2020-08-31 15:19:20 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Ian Goddard
Post by Vance Mead
I wonder if it could be related to "Tye", sometimes used in placenames. For example
there's a place called Matching Tye in Essex.
An interesting name! I bet the people who live there get fed up of the
joke.
Post by Vance Mead
Tye meant a settlement by a common or green separated from the main village.
Thanks. Hardly a settlement where it is but a detached allotment of
common rights is a possibility.
Ian
As one who lives in Matching Green just a couple of miles down the road from Matching Tye I can tell you that I don't think we are particularly bothered. In fact the village is an interesting remnant of a medieval manor. The church, manor house, wedding hall and vicarage are all some distance from Matching Green the substantial part of the parish with a very large common green surrounded by several medieval houses large and small whereas Matching Tye fits the dictionary definition of a Tye in that it is an outlying patch of originally common land around a smaller green. There are other Tyes around this area too such as Harlow Tye, Housham Tye and Green Tye all old patches of common land
Thanks, Geoff. That's looking like a distinct possibility although so
far all the examples are from the S of England except a Tyelaw Burn in
Northumbria. It could, however, work as a detached area of Arnfield.

Ian

Ian Goddard
2020-08-30 16:32:49 UTC
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Post by Chris Dickinson
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arnside
https://www.etymonline.com/word/tie#:~:text=Old%20English%20teag%2C%20%22cord%2C%20band%2C%20thong%2C%20fetter%2C%22%20literally,of%20Old%20English%20teon%20%22to%20draw%2C%20pull%2C%20drag%22%29.
I'm thinking here of sheep counting, where 'two' can be 'taen' and variants, again the sense of two things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_Tan_Tethera
Or could it be "Arni's tenth"? A remnant of some early division of land?
Or could it derive from 'thing/ding/theis' in the sense of an assembly - 'Arni's assembly place'
https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/mwc/62017
An assembly place, can, I think, be ruled out. It's one of the more
remote points of each of three lordships and in the middle of a blanket
bog. The road is a C19th turnpike. There may have been an earlier
track of limited use, it's the sort of place where unwary travellers
were discovered dead when the snow melted. Even with a made-up road to
follow I've never liked driving over there in fog or falling snow.

But the number aspect has set me thinking. It /is/ the meeting point of
three lordships. Could that be what it's saying? Thanks for that
thought, Chris. You've given me something to dig into.

Ian
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