2005-04-17 01:13:44 UTC
Mr. Richardson has submitted the following definition of vernacular:
"1 a : using a language or dialect native to a region or country rather
than a literary, cultured, or foreign language."
The below is an excerpt from a post of Mr. Douglas Richardson in which
he makes a point, seemingly as an authority on the matter, of
criticizing another's use of certain names. He states that these names
"need to be translated into the vernacular" without stating what
language is the vernacular. At the same time, he is critical of the use
of Alianore, as being archaic, while he corrects "Riddlesford" with the
(1) Mr Richardson states that "Elena is the Latin form of Ellen."
Presumably he believes that Ellen is a vernacular form. In what
language is Ellen the vernacular? What is his source for the form
In fact (using Charlotte M. Yonge's _History of Christian Names_) the
Latin form of that name is "Helena," while the English form includes,
among others, Helena, Helen, Elaine, Ellen, and Eleanor, and the Scots
includes Helen and Ellen, and the Irish includes Helena, and Eileen.
On what authority does Mr. Richardson make his claim that "Elena is the
Latin form of Ellen" or that Ellen is vernacular?
(2) Mr. Richardson states that "Devorguilla is the Latin form of
Devorguilla was in fact a Scots name, the Angliscized (lowland Scots)
form of the Celtic "Dearbhforgail." "Devorguil" is simply a variant
shortening of "Devorguilla." (Again Yonge; and, among others, Hanks &
Hodges _Dictionary of First Names_)
(3) Mr. Richardson states that "Eva is the Latin form of Eve."
Here he is correct in stating that Eva is the Latin form. Eve is the
English (and French form); but even in English, Eva was a variant of
Eve. (Again among others Yonge, and Hanks & Hodges).
So, even when Mr. Richardson states a need to translate names into the
vernacular, he does not tell us the language of the vernacular. Also,
he seems not to know the Latin forms or the 'vernacular' forms on which
It should be noted that, even Mr. Richardson's definition of
"vernacular" excludes literary or written languages.
An individual, on this list, who is an authority on the matter of
medieval names ought to be more careful of his facts.
To be continued.
Local: Thurs,Sep 12 2002 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: Descendants of Uhtred of Galloway (was Re: Stuteville of
Dear John ~ [* John P. Ravilious ]
A couple of quick comments about your post.
Riddlesford is usually spelled Ridelisford in the literature.
Lastly, you have several Latin name forms which need to be translated
into the vernacular. Elena is the Latin form of Ellen. Devorguilla
is the Latin form of Devorguil. Eva is the Latin form of Eve. Also,
Alianore is an archaic form of Eleanor.
I think that about covers it.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah