Discussion:
Kaye of Milshaw, Dalton and Heath
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Ian Goddard
2020-03-11 10:16:07 UTC
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Several books of heraldry have entries in the above title. My problem
is linking Milshaw to Dalton and Heath.

The Kayes of Dalton were descended from Richard, the 4th son of John Kay
of Woodsome (Glover's visitation of Kay of Dalton). John, gg-grandson
of Richard, the first John on the Glover visitation, acquired the
Shelley, a sub-manor of Wakefield as his wife's inheritance. He was
living there at the end of his life, being the John Kaye of Shelley
buried 08 Apr 1572 at Kirkburton. His son, John Kaye of Oakenshaw sold
both Shelley and Dalton and built Heath Hall SE of Wakefield, hence the
connection of Dalton and Heath.

Jhon Kay of Melshay with his first child Mergere* appears in the
Kirkburton PRs a little before this, bapt 31 Oct 1568 and his surviving
son was also baptised, 03 Dec 1570, before the death of John Kaye of
Shelley.

The likeliest connection seems to be that John of Milshaw was the second
surviving son of John of Oakenshaw, shown as without issue by Glover.
However before selling Shelley John of Oakenshaw leased Shelley Hall for
21 years to John Kaye of Shelley; this is mentioned in the deed of sale.
John of Shelley was not John of Milshaw as both appear on the same
panel of jurors at the manorial court some years later.

One possibility is that one of these John Kayes was one of John of
Oakenshaw's illegitimate children by Dorothy, d of Henry Saville of
Thornhill, and maybe also the John Kaye, servant in the oldest John's
will (George Kaye of Thornhill Lees in the same will may have been
another). The deeds and will are in Yorkshire Deeds vol III.

So far I've not been able to find anything to take this further. The
first 4 volumes of FMG don't have anything useful but I don't have
access to the later volumes. Does anyone have these or anything else
which might help?

Ian

* The Kirkburton registers were going through a phase of particularly
idosyncratic spelling.
John Higgins
2020-03-11 22:33:29 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
Several books of heraldry have entries in the above title. My problem
is linking Milshaw to Dalton and Heath.
The Kayes of Dalton were descended from Richard, the 4th son of John Kay
of Woodsome (Glover's visitation of Kay of Dalton). John, gg-grandson
of Richard, the first John on the Glover visitation, acquired the
Shelley, a sub-manor of Wakefield as his wife's inheritance. He was
living there at the end of his life, being the John Kaye of Shelley
buried 08 Apr 1572 at Kirkburton. His son, John Kaye of Oakenshaw sold
both Shelley and Dalton and built Heath Hall SE of Wakefield, hence the
connection of Dalton and Heath.
Jhon Kay of Melshay with his first child Mergere* appears in the
Kirkburton PRs a little before this, bapt 31 Oct 1568 and his surviving
son was also baptised, 03 Dec 1570, before the death of John Kaye of
Shelley.
The likeliest connection seems to be that John of Milshaw was the second
surviving son of John of Oakenshaw, shown as without issue by Glover.
However before selling Shelley John of Oakenshaw leased Shelley Hall for
21 years to John Kaye of Shelley; this is mentioned in the deed of sale.
John of Shelley was not John of Milshaw as both appear on the same
panel of jurors at the manorial court some years later.
One possibility is that one of these John Kayes was one of John of
Oakenshaw's illegitimate children by Dorothy, d of Henry Saville of
Thornhill, and maybe also the John Kaye, servant in the oldest John's
will (George Kaye of Thornhill Lees in the same will may have been
another). The deeds and will are in Yorkshire Deeds vol III.
So far I've not been able to find anything to take this further. The
first 4 volumes of FMG don't have anything useful but I don't have
access to the later volumes. Does anyone have these or anything else
which might help?
Ian
* The Kirkburton registers were going through a phase of particularly
idosyncratic spelling.
The only continuation of the 4 volumes of FMG that I'm aware of is "Hunter's Pedigrees", which is vol. 88 of the Harleian Society's visitation series. That volume contains two Kaye pedigrees: a two-line pedigree of Kaye of Masborough, and a considerably longer one (2 1/2 pages) of Kaye of Wakefield. But I don't see any references to the other Kaye families you mention above in these pedigrees.
Ian Goddard
2020-03-12 11:21:49 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
Post by Ian Goddard
Several books of heraldry have entries in the above title. My problem
is linking Milshaw to Dalton and Heath.
So far I've not been able to find anything to take this further. The
first 4 volumes of FMG don't have anything useful but I don't have
access to the later volumes. Does anyone have these or anything else
which might help?
Ian
* The Kirkburton registers were going through a phase of particularly
idosyncratic spelling.
The only continuation of the 4 volumes of FMG that I'm aware of is "Hunter's Pedigrees", which is vol. 88 of the Harleian Society's visitation series. That volume contains two Kaye pedigrees: a two-line pedigree of Kaye of Masborough, and a considerably longer one (2 1/2 pages) of Kaye of Wakefield. But I don't see any references to the other Kaye families you mention above in these pedigrees.
Thanks, John. I wasn't sure if there were any others apart from that
volume which I don't have.

Is the Kaye of Wakefield line there that of Robert Kaye? If so does it
give the origin?

Ian
Vance Mead
2020-03-12 14:50:54 UTC
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There's a Robert Kay, of Wakefield, yeoman, who is the defendant here against John Brayton for a debt of 30 pounds.

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/M/CP40no1157/aCP40no1157fronts/IMG_0104.htm
Post by Ian Goddard
Is the Kaye of Wakefield line there that of Robert Kaye? If so does it
give the origin?
Ian
John Higgins
2020-03-12 18:27:03 UTC
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Post by Ian Goddard
Post by John Higgins
Post by Ian Goddard
Several books of heraldry have entries in the above title. My problem
is linking Milshaw to Dalton and Heath.
So far I've not been able to find anything to take this further. The
first 4 volumes of FMG don't have anything useful but I don't have
access to the later volumes. Does anyone have these or anything else
which might help?
Ian
* The Kirkburton registers were going through a phase of particularly
idosyncratic spelling.
The only continuation of the 4 volumes of FMG that I'm aware of is "Hunter's Pedigrees", which is vol. 88 of the Harleian Society's visitation series. That volume contains two Kaye pedigrees: a two-line pedigree of Kaye of Masborough, and a considerably longer one (2 1/2 pages) of Kaye of Wakefield. But I don't see any references to the other Kaye families you mention above in these pedigrees.
Thanks, John. I wasn't sure if there were any others apart from that
volume which I don't have.
Is the Kaye of Wakefield line there that of Robert Kaye? If so does it
give the origin?
Ian
There are five Robert Kayes of Wakefield in a row in the pedigree, starting with the one who d. 1561 and ending with the one who d. 1665. And there are two generations before the first Robert: father William (d. 1560) and grandfather Thomas (d. 1545), both indicated to be clothiers of Wakefield.

If you send me your email address offline, I can email you a copy of the pertinent pages of "Hunter's Pedigrees".

FWIW there appear to be Plantagenet descents behind the first Robert Kaye via his mother Mary Grice - but I'm not sure how accurate they are.
Vance Mead
2020-03-12 19:16:36 UTC
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This record is from Hilary term, 1554, so this must be the first Robert.
Ian Goddard
2020-03-12 22:03:45 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
Post by Ian Goddard
Post by John Higgins
Post by Ian Goddard
Several books of heraldry have entries in the above title. My problem
is linking Milshaw to Dalton and Heath.
So far I've not been able to find anything to take this further. The
first 4 volumes of FMG don't have anything useful but I don't have
access to the later volumes. Does anyone have these or anything else
which might help?
Ian
* The Kirkburton registers were going through a phase of particularly
idosyncratic spelling.
The only continuation of the 4 volumes of FMG that I'm aware of is "Hunter's Pedigrees", which is vol. 88 of the Harleian Society's visitation series. That volume contains two Kaye pedigrees: a two-line pedigree of Kaye of Masborough, and a considerably longer one (2 1/2 pages) of Kaye of Wakefield. But I don't see any references to the other Kaye families you mention above in these pedigrees.
Thanks, John. I wasn't sure if there were any others apart from that
volume which I don't have.
Is the Kaye of Wakefield line there that of Robert Kaye? If so does it
give the origin?
Ian
There are five Robert Kayes of Wakefield in a row in the pedigree, starting with the one who d. 1561 and ending with the one who d. 1665. And there are two generations before the first Robert: father William (d. 1560) and grandfather Thomas (d. 1545), both indicated to be clothiers of Wakefield.
If you send me your email address offline, I can email you a copy of the pertinent pages of "Hunter's Pedigrees".
Done, thanks.
Post by John Higgins
FWIW there appear to be Plantagenet descents behind the first Robert Kaye via his mother Mary Grice - but I'm not sure how accurate they are.
John & Vance,

It looks as if this sequence doesn't include the Robert I was looking
at; his father was John.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there were more Kaye lines around this
end of the county than the Woodsome Kayes. There had been Kayes in
Wakefield since the 1270s. They don't show up in the poll tax but then,
who wants to show up in tax records? At least one of them was a bit of
a sharp businessman in his time. I'm not convinced they died out by 1379.

Ian

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