Discussion:
Any Idea Where to Find this French Crusader?
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j***@gmail.com
2020-08-01 06:59:48 UTC
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Hello,
I have a pretty well-researched genealogy of my family that goes back to Medieval times, and mentions a French Crusader Knight , Ferry de Inferno, present in Jerusalem in 1149. I can’t find the reference (the catalogue system for the source has changed), nor any information as to who Inferno was under. I have contacted the author of the book but he doesn’t write me back. The Crusader does not appear in this database. https://www.dhi.ac.uk/crusaders/
Does anyone have any idea where to look for possible mentions of Ferry?

Thanks,

Josiah de la Motte
Juan Sardina
2020-08-01 12:47:41 UTC
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Hello,

I would think that if he was in that area in 1149, it is somewhat likely that he came in the Second Crusade. Do you know if he returned to France? I would guess inferno was the Latin surname or nickname. It seems rather unique for a place name. But could you tell where you found the reference and who is the author if the book? Was he related to one of the De Lamotte families from western France? Interestingly, the surname Inferno does exist in France.

Good luck,
J. Sardina
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hello,
I have a pretty well-researched genealogy of my family that goes back to Medieval times, and mentions a French Crusader Knight , Ferry de Inferno, present in Jerusalem in 1149. I can’t find the reference (the catalogue system for the source has changed), nor any information as to who Inferno was under. I have contacted the author of the book but he doesn’t write me back. The Crusader does not appear in this database. https://www.dhi.ac.uk/crusaders/
Does anyone have any idea where to look for possible mentions of Ferry?
Thanks,
Josiah de la Motte
joseph cook
2020-08-01 12:50:48 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Hello,
I have a pretty well-researched genealogy of my family that goes back to Medieval times, and mentions a French Crusader Knight , Ferry de Inferno, present in Jerusalem in 1149. I can’t find the reference (the catalogue system for the source has changed), nor any information as to who Inferno was under. I have contacted the author of the book but he doesn’t write me back. The Crusader does not appear in this database. https://www.dhi.ac.uk/crusaders/
Does anyone have any idea where to look for possible mentions of Ferry?\
Josiah,
Welcome. This is a very suspicious thing. A 12th century individual notable enough that they left documented descendants down to the present day, but has no mentions on google means there is something amiss here..
Is this a published work or a private genealogy? Knowing the line of descent would be a great help here.

--Joe C
j***@gmail.com
2020-08-01 23:47:50 UTC
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Thanks so much for the quick replies!
I wrote much of this up earlier this afternoon, then I got an “error” message, and realized it had all gotten deleted. That’s what I get for not putting it in my notes.

The line would be as follows

Perricus de Inferno
Rainaudus de Infernato
Ferry or Henri de Lenfernat
EITHER Regnaud OR Jeoffroy de Lenfernat,

Each generation was supposedly mentioned at home in Gien or Sens in the case of Jeoffroy, in 1176 (Federicus de Infernato), in 1186 (Rainaudus de Infernat), in 1216 (Ferry de Lenfernat). In 1219 there was a donation made by Henri de D’Infernet in the Archbishopric of Sens.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k298638p/f463.item

Regnaud’s tomb was still in existence in the late 1600s in the church at Saint-Maurice sur Lavron. It pictured a knight with his foot on a dog, and said that Regnaud was a ‘chevalier’.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Histoire_générale_des_pays_de_Gastinoi/qB8lf3IeXywC?hl=en&gbpv=1: page 201

To this day there are ruins of the ‘donjon d’Infernat’ in Saint-Maurice sur Aveyron, which is also mentioned in the source above in relation to Regnaud.

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There is also supposedly a source giving Regnaud and Jeoffroy as sons of Ferry. This fact appears in a 1923 issue of ‘Notices Généalogiques’ by Baron de Woelmont (link below).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MN5WIANZgXXMuQbP309ctMK-NsNb7Qqo/view?usp=drivesdk

Woelmont is the also the only source for the supposed Perricus de Inferno mentioned in Jerusalem in 1149. I am still working to find all the references given, but, unfortunately I think that much of the information given probably came from the personal research of Germaine de L’Enferna, probably born in 1890. I’ll try to track down her descendants and ask them if, by some miracle, they still have her stuff. I think it’s very unlikely.

Then comes Jean de Lenfernat, who was banished from France in 1306 for having ‘coined money’, which I’ve read is the Medieval equivalent of setting up a fraudulent bank. The document supposedly still exists in the Archives Nationales in France, and the reference is given in the genealogical journal that I mentioned in my last post (first few pages linked to below). I’m currently working on getting a copy of the original document.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JVVvAh-70Xl98mvsFGu16g7JCTOqItmH/view?usp=drivesdk

Woelmont then states that there was an Arthur de Lenfernat, a naval commander in Selkirk, Scotland, who married Caroline de Meutz, a Scottish noblewoman. Then there was a François Oudin de Lenfernat who married Jeanne-Élizabeth de Lenty, also a Scottish noblewoman, on the 16th of April, 1352 in Selkirk. These marriages to Scottish noblewomen, but nothing else about Scotland, are given in the Cabinet des Titres (linked to below) in a pamphlet published in 1819. I don’t see any previous references in the Royal Genealogists’ records.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b100813247/f287.item

According to Woelmont, François Oudin then emigrated back to France in 1370, settling in Villiers-sur-Tholon with three sons, Oudin de Lenfernat being one of these. From Oudin on, there are 18th Century pedigrees and (some) marriage records in the Cabinet des Titres, then actual notarial records after the beginning of the 18th Century. In total the link would be 25 generations up from myself.

Admittedly a lot of the relationships between these early generations are merely implied by people of a rare surname who are a generation apart and reside in the same place. If anyone else has any thoughts about whither or not this is a good line or ideas about where to find any mentions of Perricus de Inferno as a crusader, please do let me know.
j***@gmail.com
2020-08-02 02:12:40 UTC
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Sorry, I forgot to say that the reference to Woelmont in the previous post begins on page 612. Also I just realized the 70-90 year gap between the the lifetimes of Jean and the two candidates put forward to be Jean’s father. Grandfather or even great- grandfather would be more like it. Which means there is a big gap that would need to be filled...
Juan Sardina
2020-08-09 13:08:38 UTC
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Hello,

And how reliable is the baron de Woelmont?

Any ideas on his sources?

Any other Meutz? That one doesn't sound particularly Scottish.

It seems there is a bit of information about later L'Enfernat.

J. Sardina
Post by j***@gmail.com
Sorry, I forgot to say that the reference to Woelmont in the previous post begins on page 612. Also I just realized the 70-90 year gap between the the lifetimes of Jean and the two candidates put forward to be Jean’s father. Grandfather or even great- grandfather would be more like it. Which means there is a big gap that would need to be filled...
Josiah de la Motte
2020-08-09 15:09:04 UTC
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Well that’s just it: Woelmont doesn’t give source citations. What he did state at the beginning, however, is that he owed much of the research to ‘Germaine de L’Enferna. I’ve figured out who she was. I have been trying to get ahold her grandchildren, who are quite advanced in age themselves now, but without success so far...
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hello,
And how reliable is the baron de Woelmont?
Any ideas on his sources?
Any other Meutz? That one doesn't sound particularly Scottish.
It seems there is a bit of information about later L'Enfernat.
J. Sardina
Post by j***@gmail.com
Sorry, I forgot to say that the reference to Woelmont in the previous post begins on page 612. Also I just realized the 70-90 year gap between the the lifetimes of Jean and the two candidates put forward to be Jean’s father. Grandfather or even great- grandfather would be more like it. Which means there is a big gap that would need to be filled...
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