Discussion:
New Light on Sir Roger Martel [died 1280] and his wife, Joan
(too old to reply)
c***@gmail.com
2019-12-27 23:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Newsgroup ~

Sir Roger Martel [died 1280], of Hinton Martell, Broadmayne, and Mappowder, Dorset, Glen Magna, Leicestershire, and Merston, Sussex, is a lineal descendant of William Martel, who was Steward of the King's Household under King Stephen [see Powicke & Fryde, Handbook of British Chronology (1961): 72]. Sir Roger Martel is of interest to many here on the newsgroup as he is in the ancestry of many 17th Century New World immigrants, including my own ancestor, John Baynard, Gent., of Maryland.

At the time of his death in 1280, Sir Roger Martel was survived by a wife, Joan, and two young daughters, Ela (wife of Peter Fitz Reynold, Knt.) and Joan (wife of Reynold Fitz Reynold). To my knowledge, the subsequent history of Sir Roger's widow, Joan, has never been determined. Recently, however, I located a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1287 which indicates that Sir Roger Martel's widow, Joan, married (2nd) Sir Richard de Havering, of Shapwick, Dorset. A brief abstract of the 1287 lawsuit is given below:

In Hilary term 1287 Walter Chanfulur sued Eudone Martel and Richard de Haveryng and Joan his wife, executors of the will of Roger Martel, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6 4s. 2d. The said Walter likewise sued Richard Haveryng for a debt of 43s. and Joan his wife for a debt of 10 marks [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/66, image 3471f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no66/aCP40no66fronts/IMG_3471.htm)].

In 1297 Sir Richard de Havering and Joan his wife complained that while he was in North Wales on the king’s service and under the king’s protection, John Glyde and others broke his house at Broadmayne, Dorset and assaulted his wife [see Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1292–1301 (1895):318].

Broadmayne, Dorset mentioned above was one of Sir Roger Martel's manors. His widow, Joan, presumably held it in dower with her 2nd husband, Sir Richard de Havering, which explains why she was living there in 1297. In 1301 Richard de Hardyng [recte Haveryng] presented to the church of Broadmayne, Dorset [see Hutchins, Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 2 (1863): 542]. Broadmayne manor and the advowson of the church subsequently descended to the respective families of Ela and Joan Martel, the daughters and co-heirs of Sir Roger Martel [see Feudal Aids 2 (1900): 31, 51, 67, 116]. Sir Richard de Havering's own manor of Shapwick, Dorset appears to have subsequently descended to the Plecy and Cammell families, of Dorset.

For interest's sake, I've copied below my current file account of Sir Roger Martel. The following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Sir Roger Martel and his wife, Joan:

Barbara Aubrey, John Baynard, Dorothy Beresford, William Bladen, Elizabeth Bosvile, Charles Calvert, Francis Dade, Humphrey Davie, Mary Gye, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Gabriel, Roger & Sarah Ludlow, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, George Reade, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Rose Stoughton, Olive Welby, John West

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian & Genealogist

+ + + + + + + + + + + +

1. ROGER MARTEL, Knt., of Hinton Martell, Broadmayne, and Mappowder, Dorset, Glen Magna, Leicestershire, and Merston, Sussex, son and heir of William Martel, Knt., of Merston, Sussex, by his wife, Margaret [see Hutchins, Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868):140–141, 721; VCH Sussex 4 (1953): 158–160]. He married JOAN _____. They had two daughters, Ela and Joan. In 1272 the king granted him a weekly market and yearly fair to be held at his manors of Hinton, Dorset and Glen, Leicestershire [see C.Ch.R. 2 (1906): 184]. Sometime in the period, 1272–80, he witnessed a charter of Queen Eleanor of Provence, widow of King Henry III, to the Abbess and nuns of Tarrant [see C.Ch.R. 2 (1906): 227]. In 1274–5 Robert de Moyne Martel and Roger Kamyn arraigned an assize of novel disseisin against him and others touching common of pasture in Hodemein, Dorset [see Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 44 (1883): 138]. In 1274–5 Roger Martel arraigned an assize of darrein presentment against Margaret Martel touching the church of Merston, Sussex [see Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 44 (1883): 184]. At an unknown date, he granted Ivo Martel two carucates of land in Mappowder, Dorset for life, which fell to Roger by the death of William de Ponsent. SIR ROGER MARTEL died testate at Sherborne, Dorset 21 Feb. 1280 [see Cal. IPM 2 (1906): 201]. On 16 May 1280 the king ordered dower to be assigned to his widow, Joan, upon her taking oath not to marry without the king’s license [see C.C.R. 1279–1288 (1902): 12]. In 1280 Joan widow of Roger Martel sued Roger la Zouche in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of various lands and two parts of one mill in Glen, Leicestershire, which she claimed as her dower [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/36, image 3082f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no36/aCP40no36fronts/IMG_3082.htm)]. The same year Reynold Fitz Peter and Joan his wife sued Joan Martel, in the Court of Common Pleas that she render to them Joan daughter and heiress of Roger Martel whose custody belonged to the said Reynold and Joan [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/36, image 3087f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no36/aCP40no36fronts/IMG_3087.htm)]. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) before Hilary term 1287 (date of lawsuit) RICHARD DE HAVERING (or HAVERINGS), Knt., of Shapwick, Dorset, Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire, etc., and, in right of his wife, of Broadmayne, Dorset, son and heir of Richard de Havering, Knt., of Shapwick, Dorset, Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire, etc. [see Cal. IPM 1 (1904): 203–208]. In Hilary term 1287 Walter Chanfulur sued Eudone Martel and Richard de Haveryng and Joan his wife, executors of the will of Roger Martel, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6 4s. 2d. The said Walter likewise sued Richard Haveryng for a debt of 43s. and Joan his wife for a debt of 10 marks [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/66, image 3471f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no66/aCP40no66fronts/IMG_3471.htm)]. In 1287 Richard was appointed a commissioner for Dorset to enforce the articles of the statutes made at Winchester for the preservation of the peace. In 1297 he and Joan his wife complained that while he was in North Wales on the king’s service and under the king’s protection, John Glyde and others broke his house at Broadmayne, Dorset and assaulted his wife [see C.P.R. 1292–1301 (1895):318]. In 1301 Richard de Hardyng [recte Haveryng] presented to the church of Broadmayne, Dorset [see Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 2 (1863): 542]. In 1313 Sir Richard granted the reversion a rent of 11 marks in Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire to Thomas Danvers and Agnes his wife and the heirs of Agnes [see VCH Hampshire 4 (1911): 452–469; National Archives, CP 25/1/205/17, #22]. A pedigree of the Plecy and Cammel families published in Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868): 166 alleges that a certain John Plecy, senior married Elizabeth “daughter and coheir of Sir Richard Havering.” If correct, this would explain the subsequent passage of the manor of Shapwick Plecy, Dorset from the Havering family to the Plecy and Cammell families. For further particulars of Sir Richard de Havering, see Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868): 165–166; C.P.R. 1281–1292 (1893): 264–265; Feudal Aids 2 (1900): 16, 32; Cal. IPM 2 (1906): 323–332; Cal. IPM 3 (1912): 288–321; St. George’s Roll dated c.1285 (arms of Richard de Haveringes: Argent a lion rampant double queued gules) (available at perso.numericable.fr/briantimms1/rolls/StGeorgesE8.html).

Children of Roger Martel, Knt., by Joan _____:

i. ELA MARTEL, married PETER FITZ REYNOLD, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset.
ii. JOAN MARTEL, married REYNOLD FITZ REYNOLD, of Hinton Martell, Dorset.
j***@gmail.com
2019-12-28 00:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
Sir Roger Martel [died 1280], of Hinton Martell, Broadmayne, and Mappowder, Dorset, Glen Magna, Leicestershire, and Merston, Sussex, is a lineal descendant of William Martel, who was Steward of the King's Household under King Stephen [see Powicke & Fryde, Handbook of British Chronology (1961): 72]. Sir Roger Martel is of interest to many here on the newsgroup as he is in the ancestry of many 17th Century New World immigrants, including my own ancestor, John Baynard, Gent., of Maryland.
Good find; thank you. What is the connection of Roger to his forebearer, steward of King Steven? I have seen the Martel line be very confused..
John Higgins
2019-12-28 19:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
1. ROGER MARTEL, Knt., of Hinton Martell, Broadmayne, and Mappowder, Dorset, Glen Magna, Leicestershire, and Merston, Sussex, son and heir of William Martel, Knt., of Merston, Sussex, by his wife, Margaret [see Hutchins, Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868):140–141, 721; VCH Sussex 4 (1953): 158–160]. He married JOAN _____. They had two daughters, Ela and Joan. In 1272 the king granted him a weekly market and yearly fair to be held at his manors of Hinton, Dorset and Glen, Leicestershire [see C.Ch.R. 2 (1906): 184]. Sometime in the period, 1272–80, he witnessed a charter of Queen Eleanor of Provence, widow of King Henry III, to the Abbess and nuns of Tarrant [see C.Ch.R. 2 (1906): 227]. In 1274–5 Robert de Moyne Martel and Roger Kamyn arraigned an assize of novel disseisin against him and others touching common of pasture in Hodemein, Dorset [see Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 44 (1883): 138]. In 1274–5 Roger Martel arraigned an assize of darrein presentment against Margaret Martel touching the church of Merston, Sussex [see Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 44 (1883): 184]. At an unknown date, he granted Ivo Martel two carucates of land in Mappowder, Dorset for life, which fell to Roger by the death of William de Ponsent. SIR ROGER MARTEL died testate at Sherborne, Dorset 21 Feb. 1280 [see Cal. IPM 2 (1906): 201]. On 16 May 1280 the king ordered dower to be assigned to his widow, Joan, upon her taking oath not to marry without the king’s license [see C.C.R. 1279–1288 (1902): 12]. In 1280 Joan widow of Roger Martel sued Roger la Zouche in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of various lands and two parts of one mill in Glen, Leicestershire, which she claimed as her dower [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/36, image 3082f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no36/aCP40no36fronts/IMG_3082.htm)]. The same year Reynold Fitz Peter and Joan his wife sued Joan Martel, in the Court of Common Pleas that she render to them Joan daughter and heiress of Roger Martel whose custody belonged to the said Reynold and Joan [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/36, image 3087f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no36/aCP40no36fronts/IMG_3087.htm)]. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) before Hilary term 1287 (date of lawsuit) RICHARD DE HAVERING (or HAVERINGS), Knt., of Shapwick, Dorset, Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire, etc., and, in right of his wife, of Broadmayne, Dorset, son and heir of Richard de Havering, Knt., of Shapwick, Dorset, Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire, etc. [see Cal. IPM 1 (1904): 203–208]. In Hilary term 1287 Walter Chanfulur sued Eudone Martel and Richard de Haveryng and Joan his wife, executors of the will of Roger Martel, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6 4s. 2d. The said Walter likewise sued Richard Haveryng for a debt of 43s. and Joan his wife for a debt of 10 marks [see Court of Common Pleas, CP40/66, image 3471f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no66/aCP40no66fronts/IMG_3471.htm)]. In 1287 Richard was appointed a commissioner for Dorset to enforce the articles of the statutes made at Winchester for the preservation of the peace. In 1297 he and Joan his wife complained that while he was in North Wales on the king’s service and under the king’s protection, John Glyde and others broke his house at Broadmayne, Dorset and assaulted his wife [see C.P.R. 1292–1301 (1895):318]. In 1301 Richard de Hardyng [recte Haveryng] presented to the church of Broadmayne, Dorset [see Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 2 (1863): 542]. In 1313 Sir Richard granted the reversion a rent of 11 marks in Stanbridge (in Romsey), Hampshire to Thomas Danvers and Agnes his wife and the heirs of Agnes [see VCH Hampshire 4 (1911): 452–469; National Archives, CP 25/1/205/17, #22]. A pedigree of the Plecy and Cammel families published in Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868): 166 alleges that a certain John Plecy, senior married Elizabeth “daughter and coheir of Sir Richard Havering.” If correct, this would explain the subsequent passage of the manor of Shapwick Plecy, Dorset from the Havering family to the Plecy and Cammell families. For further particulars of Sir Richard de Havering, see Hutchins Hist. & Antiqs. of Dorset 3 (1868): 165–166; C.P.R. 1281–1292 (1893): 264–265; Feudal Aids 2 (1900): 16, 32; Cal. IPM 2 (1906): 323–332; Cal. IPM 3 (1912): 288–321; St. George’s Roll dated c.1285 (arms of Richard de Haveringes: Argent a lion rampant double queued gules) (available at perso.numericable.fr/briantimms1/rolls/StGeorgesE8.html).
i. ELA MARTEL, married PETER FITZ REYNOLD, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset.
ii. JOAN MARTEL, married REYNOLD FITZ REYNOLD, of Hinton Martell, Dorset.
It's interesting to note that this "file account" of Sir Roger Martel includes references within the text of the biography, rather than just a long list of sources at the end. It may not be perfect, but it's a major improvement over the methodology used in the PA, MCA, and RA volumes, which methodology has been frequently criticized in this group. If this is to be the new standard for the Richardson works, it's quite welcome - albeit 15 years overdue.

OTOH other recent "file accounts" posted here recently still use the old, unsatisfactory format. Perhaps change will be a long time coming yet.... But maybe there's hope...
c***@gmail.com
2019-12-28 20:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Dear Newsgroup ~

For interest's sake, I've copied below the inquisition post mortem for Sir Roger Martel, who died in 1280.

Do you descend from Sir Roger Martel? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.

Both myself and my late wife, Rozanne, descend from Sir Roger Martel through our common immigrant ancestor, John Baynard, of Talbot County, Maryland. This line of descent goes as follows:

1. Roger Martel, Knt., died 1280, married Joan _____, living 1297. She married (2nd) Richard de Havering, Knt.

2. Ela Martel, born c.1273, married Peter Fitz Reynold, knt., of Chewton, Somerset, died 1322.

3. Roger Martel, of Chewton, Somerset, died before died before 6 Dec. 1322, married before 30 Nov. 1318 Joan _____, probably De Lorty.

4. Henry Fitz Roger, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset, born 1318, died 1352, married before 1340 Elizabeth de Holand, died 1387.

5. John Fitz Roger, of Chewton, Somerset, died 1370-72, married before 26 April 1369 Alice _____, died 1426.

6. Elizabeth Fitz Roger, born 1370, died 1414, married (1st) John Bonville, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset, died 1396; (2nd) before before 2 Dec. 1398 Richard Stucley (or Stukle, Styuecle), Esq., of Ridgewell, Essex, died 1441.

7. Hugh Stucle, Esq., of Affeton (in West Wolrington), Devon, died 1457, married before 19 Dec. 1437 Katherine Affeton, died 1467

8. Nicholas Stukeley, ), Esq., of Affeton (in West Wolrington), Devon, born c.1451, died 1488, married (1st) Thomasine Cockworthy.

9. Joan Stukeley, married Philip Baynard, Esq., of Lackham, Wiltshire, born c.1471, died 1522.

10. Robert Baynard, Esq., of Lackham, Wiltshire, died 1537, married before 1512 Anne Blake.

11. Thomas Baynard, Esq., of Barton Hundred, Gloucestershire and Wanstrow, Somerset, died 1608, married Elizabeth Barnes.

12. Henry Baynard, Gent., of Blagdon, Somerset, died 1621, married Anne Hobbes, died 1639.

13. Thomas Baynard, Gent., of Blagdon, Somerset, born about 1590, died 1652, married Martha Prickman.

14. Thomas Baynard, Esq., of Blagdon, Somerset, born 1613, died 1691, married Mary Bennett, died 1678.

15. John Baynard, Gent., of Talbot County, Maryland, born 1640, died 1705, married Elizabeth Blackwell, living 1706.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + +

Inquisition Post Mortem for Roger Martel
Reference: Cal. of IPM 2 (1906): 201.

355. Roger Martel.

Writ to Ralph de Sandwico, the king's steward, 1 April, 8 Edw. I [1280].
Dorset. Inq. (undated.)

Hyneton Martel. 8l. land in the manor held of the heirs of William de Fortibus of the honour of Chywton by service of ½ knight's fee.
Mayne Martel. The manor held of the heirs of Robert de Arkey in free socage rendering 1d. yearly.
Ilsynton within the manor of Pydeleton. 1½ virgate land held of Henry le Thrunt by service of 2s. 6d. yearly; and ½ virgate held of the prior of Christchurch by service of 12d. yearly.

He held nothing of the king in chief in the county.
His daughters, Ela aged 7, and Joan aged 4, are his next heirs.
[Dorset.] Inq. (undated.)

He died at Shireburne the eve of St. Peter in Cathedra, 8 Edw. [I] [21 Feb. 1280] in the eyre of John de Reygate and his companions in co. Dorset.

C. Edw. I. File 24. (20.)
j***@gmail.com
2019-12-28 21:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
For interest's sake, I've copied below the inquisition post mortem for Sir Roger Martel, who died in 1280.
Do you descend from Sir Roger Martel? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Yes, descend as follows; but interested in what you've found about the ancestors of Roger Martel. The VCH indicates that Roger was son of William, and grandson of a Roger.

1. Roger Martel, Knt., died 1280, married Joan _____, living 1297. She married (2nd) Richard de Havering, Knt.

2. Ela Martel, born c.1273, married Peter Fitz Reynold, knt., of Chewton, Somerset, died 1322.

3. Roger Martel, of Chewton, Somerset, died before died before 6 Dec. 1322, married before 30 Nov. 1318 Joan _____, probably De Lorty.

4. Henry Fitz Roger, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset, born 1318, died 1352, married before 1340 Elizabeth de Holand, died 1387.

5. John Fitz Roger, of Chewton, Somerset, died 1370-72, married before 26 April 1369 Alice _____, died 1426.

6. Elizabeth Fitz Roger, born 1370, died 1414, married (1st) John Bonville, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset, died 1396; (2nd) before before 2 Dec. 1398 Richard Stucley (or Stukle, Styuecle), Esq., of Ridgewell, Essex, died 1441.

7. Hugh Stucle, Esq., of Affeton (in West Wolrington), Devon, died 1457, married before 19 Dec. 1437 Katherine Affeton, died 1467

8. Nicholas Stukeley, ), Esq., of Affeton (in West Wolrington), Devon, born c.1451, died 1488, married (1st) Thomasine Cockworthy.

9. Thomas Stukeley, Knt, of Affeton, Devon, born June 24, 1475, died January 30, 1541/2, married after April 1489 Ann Wood, daughter of Thomas Wood, Chief Justice of the Common Pleas of Childrey Berkshire, England (see Visitation of Devon)

10. Margery Stukeley, wife of Charles Farringdon, born c.1500 (aged 15 and more at father's death), and son of John Farringdon and Elizabeth Wilford. Charles was the second son, and heir to his brother Christopher.

11. Anne Farringdon, born c.1532 married Thomas Dowrish, Esq. (c.1522-1590) son of Thomas Dowrish and Elizabeth Taverner.

12. Grace Dowrish, born c.1542, died before 1604 married Robert Gye b.c.1531 of Poughill, Devon, died between 1604 and September 1608.

13. Mary Gye born b.1580, died after October 1666, married October 28, 1600 Ilsington, Devon to John Mavericke (1578 Alwiscombe, Devon-1635/6 Dorchester, Massachusetts)

14. Antipas Mavericke b.c.1619, died July 2, 1678 York, Maine

15. Abigail Maverick born c.1651, died before 1692 married December 20, 1674 Hampton, New Hampshire to Edward Gilman (c.1649-1692)

16. Elizabeth Gilman born c.1685. died August 22, 1757 East Kingston, New Hampshire, married Joseph Greeley (1683-1761)

17. Elizabeth Greeley born 1721, died before March 9, 1761, married January 31, 1738/9 Kingston, New Hampshire to John Fifield (1718-1802)

18. Nathaniel Fifield born May 11, 1739 married about 1762 Janet Cilley, daughter of Thomas Cilley and Lydia French.
Loading...