Discussion:
Gyles/Giles co: Kent
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d***@gmail.com
2018-01-17 03:50:30 UTC
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Did the surname Gyles/Giles originate in Scandinavia? A John Gyles/Giles was of Biddenden, co: Kent, England. His dau. Agnes m. Robert Whitfield, b. abt. 1453 as second wife. It seems as if John Gyles/Giles had arms: per pale az. and gu. a griffin passant or. See: A Complete Body of Heraldry, Volume 2, by Joseph Edmondson, and is listed under "Giles" for Gyles [Kent]. Robert and Agnes (Giles) Whitfield had a son, John, b. abt. 1520 who used those arms. In: An Index to the Arms in the Visitations of Kent, 1574-A, p. 76 (I am not able to access online Visitation of Kent at this time; so, I assume the reference detail is correct) a Giles used these arms: per pale azure and gules, a griffin pass. with wings displayed or. John Whitfield's arms were described: per pale azure and gules, a griffin segreant or - Gyles. I assume this is in one of the Visitations of Kent. Are all of these described arms from John Gyles/Giles? Are there any references that confirm John Gyles/Giles was the one who received firstly these arms and why? Was he a landholder, knight or broadcloth businessman?? Thank You for taking time and favoring me with interest.
Duane Jones
Emporia, KS
r***@hotmail.com
2018-07-10 20:09:58 UTC
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Hi. My ancestors where Giles of Kent.
And my DNA result puts me 53% Scandinavian.
I'd presumed it was from the viking invasions.
Jacqui
d***@gmail.com
2018-07-11 00:10:07 UTC
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Interesting!! Thanks for the response!! A few weeks ago, my DNA circle or pie graph changed in Ancestry. It did include 25% Scandinavian when I first had my DNA tested a few years ago. Now, I have no Scandinavian DNA. I don't know what's next? Russian, and then no Russian?
Duane
Andrew Lancaster
2018-07-11 09:05:20 UTC
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Post by r***@hotmail.com
Hi. My ancestors where Giles of Kent.
And my DNA result puts me 53% Scandinavian.
I'd presumed it was from the viking invasions.
Jacqui
Any test which tries to estimate your ethnic ancestry this way will be autosomal, and such tests are not specific to the male line, nor able to unravel specific lines of ancestry more than about 200 years old (unless you are also triangulating with ancient DNA dug up from tombs etc).
Andrew Lancaster
2018-07-11 09:13:55 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Did the surname Gyles/Giles originate in Scandinavia? A John Gyles/Giles was of Biddenden, co: Kent, England. His dau. Agnes m. Robert Whitfield, b. abt. 1453 as second wife. It seems as if John Gyles/Giles had arms: per pale az. and gu. a griffin passant or. See: A Complete Body of Heraldry, Volume 2, by Joseph Edmondson, and is listed under "Giles" for Gyles [Kent]. Robert and Agnes (Giles) Whitfield had a son, John, b. abt. 1520 who used those arms. In: An Index to the Arms in the Visitations of Kent, 1574-A, p. 76 (I am not able to access online Visitation of Kent at this time; so, I assume the reference detail is correct) a Giles used these arms: per pale azure and gules, a griffin pass. with wings displayed or. John Whitfield's arms were described: per pale azure and gules, a griffin segreant or - Gyles. I assume this is in one of the Visitations of Kent. Are all of these described arms from John Gyles/Giles? Are there any references that confirm John Gyles/Giles was the one who received firstly these arms and why? Was he a landholder, knight or broadcloth businessman?? Thank You for taking time and favoring me with interest.
Duane Jones
Emporia, KS
Giles as a first name was a common western European short form of Aegidius, which was the name of a saint. Giles as a family name, according for example to Oxford's dictionary of surnames (Reaney and Wilson, reasonable as a starting point for discussions at least) is normally derived from this first name and probably sometimes from Giselbert (Gilbert) which was also a common first name (because of its use among the Frankish aristocracy). Nothing Scandinavian in either of these two names, but then again Scandinavians were free to use Mediterranean or Frankish names just like everyone else was doing.

However, what would be the reason for proposing a Scandinavian origin to this family in Kent? If you are thinking of pre 1066 Scandinavians then remember that this was centuries earlier than the generations you are talking about and even before the common use of heraldry or surnames.
d***@gmail.com
2018-07-16 23:06:39 UTC
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I have no clue as to why I wrote about Giles possibly being a Scandinavian name. Maybe I should have mentioned Agnes Giles's husband, Robert Whitfield. He was b. abt. 1453 from Alston Moor, co: Cumberland. He descended out of the House of Whitfield, co: Northumberland. Maybe he descended from Scandinavian ancestors? I don't know how the Whitfields got to co: Northumberland. I think I read somewhere, maybe Gwyn Jones's, History of the Vikings that Scandinavians moved into the North of England; however, I don't know of any documents referencing early Whitfields and Scandinavians, just Robert of Whitfield and Ada, Countess of Northumberland. Also, I don't know if Scandinavians settled around Wark, co: Northumberland, where a Robert Whitfield m. Beatrix, who was mentioned in 1279 at Wark, North Tyne, co: Northumberland. I don't know anything else abt. Beatrix. I do recall reading about the Irish-Norse migration into north-west England; and, there are multitudinous parish names of Scandinavian origin in co: Northumberland. Finally, there were Norwegian settlements all over Northwest England, esp. from 900 - 950, even as far south as the north border of Wales; so, there is a possibility the Whitfields were Scandinavian.
Duane
Ian Goddard
2018-07-17 09:36:08 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
I don't know how the Whitfields got to co: Northumberland.
Whitfield as a surname would have risen from Whitfield the place name.
There is a Whitfield in Northumberland (
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=377880&y=558200&z=126&sv=377880,558200&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=695&ax=377880&ay=558200&lm=0
) and AFAIK it's a word of English derivation. As a surname derived
from there it's only going to get you part of the way back to the Vikings.

Anybody with extensive ancestry in the N of England can reasonably
expect to have it include a Scandinavian component. It comes with the
territory, so to speak.

Ian
c***@dickinson.uk.net
2018-08-24 19:48:55 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
I have no clue as to why I wrote about Giles possibly being a Scandinavian name. Maybe I should have mentioned Agnes Giles's husband, Robert Whitfield. He was b. abt. 1453 from Alston Moor, co: Cumberland. He descended out of the House of Whitfield, co: Northumberland. Maybe he descended from Scandinavian ancestors? I don't know how the Whitfields got to co: Northumberland. I think I read somewhere, maybe Gwyn Jones's, History of the Vikings that Scandinavians moved into the North of England; however, I don't know of any documents referencing early Whitfields and Scandinavians, just Robert of Whitfield and Ada, Countess of Northumberland. Also, I don't know if Scandinavians settled around Wark, co: Northumberland, where a Robert Whitfield m. Beatrix, who was mentioned in 1279 at Wark, North Tyne, co: Northumberland. I don't know anything else abt. Beatrix. I do recall reading about the Irish-Norse migration into north-west England; and, there are multitudinous parish names of Scandinavian origin in co: Northumberland. Finally, there were Norwegian settlements all over Northwest England, esp. from 900 - 950, even as far south as the north border of Wales; so, there is a possibility the Whitfields were Scandinavian.
Duane
Just about anyone with ancient northern ancestry is likely to have Danish or Norse ancestry.

The point is that surnames only developed centuries after the Scandinavian settlement, so the surname tells you absolutely nothing about ethnic origin (only, perhaps, about the place name origin, if the surname is derived from that).

Chris

Chris
c***@gmail.com
2018-08-25 01:32:45 UTC
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On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 1:48:56 PM UTC-6, ***@dickinson.uk.net wrote:

< Just about anyone with ancient northern ancestry is likely to have Danish or Norse ancestry.
<
< The point is that surnames only developed centuries after the Scandinavian
< settlement, so the surname tells you absolutely nothing about ethnic origin < (only, perhaps, about the place name origin, if the surname is derived from < that).

My last name is Richardson, which surname is principally found in Yorkshire. My male line DNA matches a Richardson in Canada, whose great-grandfather immigrated from Yorkshire.

Not surprisingly, our DNA is Danish or Norse.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

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