I summarized the information which Ken sent from Lancashire Feet of Fines,
Vol 1, p. 93, footnote 33:
1 --- Barton
2 Edith de Barton
+ 1st ---
3 John de Barton
2 Edith de Barton
+ 2nd --- a Lincolnshire man
1 Gilbert de Notton
+ 1st ---
2 William de Notton
+ dau. of Edith de Barton & 1st husband
3 Gilbert de Notton/de Barton
+ 1st Margery, dau. of Hugh de Eland
3 Gilbert de Notton/de Barton
+ 2nd Cecilia, possibly dau. of Jorwerth de Hulton
3 Matthew de Notton
2 Roger de Notton
2 John de Notton/de Bromyhurst
Then I found the following in Volumes I and II of the Chartulary of Whalley
Abbey. It agrees with what is stated in Feet of Fines above.
The Coucher Book, or Chartulary, of Whalley Abbey, Vol. I (Printed for the
Chetham Society, 1847), pp. 45-46, footnote; at books.google.com.
"I. William de Notton, the first on record of this family. His son,
II. Gilbert de Notton, married Editha, "domina de Barton," circa 1190, and
assumed the name of Barton. He had three sons,
1. William de Notton.
2. Roger de Notton.
3. John de Bromyhurst.
He was succeeded by his son,
III. William de Notton, who had two sons,
2. Matthew, who had a daughter, Matilda.
William de Notton was succeeded by his son,
IV. Gilbert, who assumed the name of Barton, and was seneschal to John de
Lascy, eighth baron of Halton. he married twice; first, Margery, daughter of
John de Elond; and secondly, Cecilia, living 1277, the mother of
1. John de Barton.
>From Cuerden's Abttracts of Deeds, it appears that he sold the wardship of
his daughter Agnes to John de Blackburne, who sold it to Thomas de Grelley.
Gilbert de Barton died ante 1277.
This family becoming extinct in the direct male line, the inheritance passed
to the Booths of Barton, the heiress having married John del Bothe.
The Coucher Book, or Chartulary, of Whalley Abbey, Vol. II (Printed for the
Chetham Society, 1847), pp. 623 and 626, footnotes; at books.google.com:
"Gilbert de Barton settled lands in Barton, by deed s.d., to take effect
from the feast of St. Martin in winter, 16 Edward II., on his son Robert,
for the term of his life, paying two marks of silver annually to the said
Gilbert during his life, and after his death, one rose on the feast of St.
John the Baptist to his heirs. - Lanc. MSS. vol. xxiv. p. 2. This son is not
named in the Barton pedigree, pp. 45-6.
Sir John de Byron died in 1309.
Sic - Gilberto de Notton et heredibus suis, omitted.
In the Eland pedigree, Wymark, daughter of Sir Hugh de Eland and his wife
Joan, daughter and coheiress of Sir Richard de Tankersley, is stated to have
married Jordan de Mitton. See deed xlvi., p. 623."
As stated above, Gilbert de Notton, the son of William, married first
Margery de Eland and second Cecilia. I don't understand how Margery, the
former wife of Gilbert de Notton, could have married second BALDWIN LE TYES
if Gilbert had a second wife. The extract below states that the second
husband of Roger de Notton's mother, Margery de Eland, was Baldwin le Tyes
and says that Gilbert was the son of Gilbert instead of William. It also
says that Edith was the daughter of Matthew de Barton!
William Farrer, transcriber and editor, The Cartulary of Cockersand Abbey of
the Premonstratensian Order, Vol.. II. Part II (Printed for The Chetham
Society, 1900), pp. 727-728, footnote; at books.google.com:
"GILBERT DE NOTTON (I) held this estate, and the not far distant estate of
Chadderton, by the feoffment of Adam fitz Swain to his ancestor, and not as
in the case of Barton cum membris in right of his wife, Lady Edith de
Barton. The earliest mention that I have found of Gilbert de Notton occurs
in the Sheriff's account of co. Lancaster at Michaelmas, 1185, when the
latter rendered account at the Treasury of one mark from Gilbert de Noton
and Richard de Heland for licence to make an agreement touching some suit
which they had been litigating in the King's Court (Lancashire Pipe Rolls,
p. 55). He was Seneschal to John de Lacy, Constable of Chester sometime
between 1213 and 1220. By his first wife, who died before 1203, he appears
to have had issue at least two sons, viz., Gilbert and William. By his
second wife, Edith, lady of Barton in her own right, daughter of Matthew de
Barton, whom he married shortly before 1203, he had no issue; but the said
Edith by her first husband, whose name has not been preserved, had issue a
son, John, who died young and unmarried, and a daughter, Cecily, her heir,
of whom presently.
GILBERT DE NOTTON (2), eldest son of Gilbert, the Seneschal, married
Margery, daughter of Hugh de Eland of Eland and Rochdale, who gave the said
Gilbert in frank marriage with his daughter, certain lands in Naden in
Spotland Whalley Coucher, p. 640). The said Gilbert also purchased from
Robert de Mitton certain lands which had been bestowed upon Jordan de Mitton
(the said Robert's grandfather), early in the reign of Henry II., by Hugh de
Eland, in frank marriage with his daughter Wymark, viz., two oxgangs of land
in Wardleworth, and two oxgangs in Heley (Whalley Coucher, pp. 623, 627).
This land afterwards became the nucleus of the Byron estates in the lordship
of Rochdale. Gilbert de Notton, jun., by his said wife had issue a son,
Roger, who succeeded to his father's Yorkshire estates in Silkstone, Farnley
Tias, and Woodsome, of which the former estate passed by the marriage of his
daughter and heir, Christiana, to William Heron, and so to the family of
John, Lord Darcy (Hunter's Deanery of Doncaster, passim). The said Roger was
the grantor in Charter No. 2. Having released his estates in Farnley and
Woodsome, co. York, and in Rochdale, co. Lanc., to Baldwin le Tyas or Tyes
(Teutonicus), who had married his mother, he died in 1241 (Yorks. Arch.
Journal, vol. vii., pp. 131, 132 n; Black Book of Clayton, (Towneley's MS.);
Fine Roll, 25 Hen. III. m. 14)."
That Roger was the son of Gilbert de Notton and Margery de Eland is further
supported by the following from Dodsworth's Yorkshire Notes, The Wapentake
of Agbrigg, p. 40, footnote, reprinted from The Yorkshire Archaeological
Journal, Vol. VII, p. 132; at books.google.com:
Between 1232 and 1251, John de Lacy, Constable and Earl of Lincoln,
witnessed the charter of Roger de Notton, who "granted all his lands of
Farnley and Woodsome to Balwinus Teutonicus, who had married Margery his
mother, relict of Gilbert de Notton, doing the forinsic service which
belonged to 2 carucates where twelve made a Knight's fee, and the homage and
service of Wm. de Ruelay and his heirs, receiving a rent of three
shillings." For this grant, Baldwin and Margery released "the lands of
Silkstone which she held in dower, she was to enjoy for life and at her
death Farnley and Woodhus were to go to the heirs of Baldwin."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ozanne" <***@bordernet.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: Baldwin le Tyas orTyes (Teutonicus)
On 16/10/07 17:00, "firstname.lastname@example.org"
> From: WJhonson <***@aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:33:14 -0700
> To: "Nancy L. Allen" <***@sbcglobal.net>, email@example.com
> Cc: "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Baldwin le Tyas orTyes (Teutonicus)
> <<In a message dated 10/15/07 21:53:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
> ***@sbcglobal.net writes:
> 2 William de Notton
> + Cecily, dau. of Augustine de Barton & Edith
> 3 Gilbert, assumed the name Barton >>
> We know that Gilbert was born exactly from 1198 to 1201
> He is under age in 1220 when he is granted as the heir, and yet he had
> in 1222.
> Will Johnson
I've come into this late and have no idea whether the following extract from
Lancashire Feet of Fines vol 1 footnote 33 p 93 has been introduced into the
evidence as yet. Apologies if it has.
Some account of Edith de Barton, who possessed Barton cum membris in her own
right, has been given in a note to the concord No. 41 (antea, p. 26). The
printed pedigrees of "de Notton" or Barton contain a serious mistake in
giving Edith de Barton three sons by her husband, Gilbert de Notton. The
correct descent is as follows: Edith de Barton had issue by a first husband,
whose name has not been preserved, a son, John de Barton, and one daughter.
Her second husband a Lincolnshire man. By a former wife, however, Gilbert
had three sons,
William, Roger, and John called "de Bromyhurst." The eldest son, William de
Notton married the daughter and heiress of Edith de Barton, by her first
husband, and had issue Gilbert and Matthew, possibly also another son. The
last-named Gilbert, was found to be heir to his grandmother Edith, and had
livery of thirty-two oxgangs of land in Barton cum membris, and Worsley, by
writ dated 26th January, 1222 (Fine Roll, 6 Henry III. m. 7). In the
original entry he is styled "Gilbertus nepos et hæres Edithæ de Barton."
That nepos here means grandson is proved by the following entry in the Close
Roll,<"The King to the Sheriff of Lancaster, greeting. Our beloved and
faithful Robert Gresle has shewn unto us, that whereas Edith, formerly wife
of Gilebert de Noctun held of him the fee of one Knight and a half in
Bartun, whereof the ancestors of Robert always used and ought to have
wardship with the heirs being under age after the death of their ancestors,
and whereas he who is now heir, being under age, to wit son of the daughter
of the said Edith, ought to be in ward to him with his inheritance, and for
that reason he (Robert) had seised that inheritance into his hands, as that
which ought to be held of him in chief by military service, now you without
authority of our precept have disseised Robert of the said fee of one Knight
and a half, causing him loss to the amount of forty marks of the chattels
which you have there seised." The Sheriff was accordingly ordered to
immediately put him in seisin and to restore his chattels. If he did not do
so, he was to come to Westminster on the morrow of St. Martin to show cause
why he did not execute this precept. This writ bears date at Westminster,
16th October, 1220 (Close Roll, 4 Henry III., m. 1, in dorso). Additional
proof of this corrected descent is found in a charter, by which Edith de
Barton, with the approval of her husband Sir Gilbert de Notton, and for the
health of their souls, and of the soul of her son, John de Barton, and of
her daughter, to wit the wife of William de Notton, gave to the monks of the
blessed place of Stanlaw in frankalmoign, the land of Cadewalisset
[Cadishead, in the township of Barton]. The date lies before 5th July, 1213,
when Henry de Longchamps was dead. Jordan, Dean of Manchester, under the
style of "Jordanus de sancta Maria" was also a witness (Whalley Coucher, p.
521). Sir Gilbert de Notton assumed the name of Barton upon inheriting his
grandmother's estates. His first wife is said to have been Margery, daughter
of Hugh de Eland, of Eland, county York. If so, the Henry, son of Margery,
who put in his claim according to the endorsement on this concord, was
probably her son. His second wife was Cecilia, possibly daughter of Jorwerth
de Hulton, to whom Paulinus de West-Houghton gave the third part of that
vill in fee, an estate afterwards found in the possession of Gilbert's son,
John de Barton (Whalley Coucher, pp. 59, 881).
It is not easy to interpret the meaning of this concord. I can only suggest
that Christiana was in some way connected by blood with Edith de Barton. She
married . . . de Allerton, and had a son, Richard, who in 1246, together
with John de Blackburn and Henry de Whalley, obtained licence to concord
with Thomas Grelley, and make acknowledgment that they had no right of chase
in Thomas' forest [of Horwich] (Assize Roll, No. 404, m. 8). The early
references to Allerton, near Liverpool, are somewhat scarce, and do not
assist in the identification of this family. (See No. 59, temp. John, and
No. 98 postea, also Mamcestre, p. 353).
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