Discussion:
Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- A relation of Gov. Thomas Dudley?
(too old to reply)
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-19 01:19:23 UTC
Permalink
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.

In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.

https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf

Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.

Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in

http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)

Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,

Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.

Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.

Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75

Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.

From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.

Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk

If the before stated connections mentioned are accurate (although as yet not proven), then Francis Dudley of Concord might have a descent that runs:

Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)

Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)

Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)

John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)

Francis Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony (b. bef. 26 Jan 1639/40 Wellingborough; d. c. 1702 Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony), md. Sarah Wheeler

I thought that the possibility of these two Francis Dudley’s perhaps being relations was just too interesting to not share. Any thoughtful insights and assistance are always appreciated. Hopefully I haven't erred, that this has been discussed here before?!
joseph cook
2021-03-19 19:19:57 UTC
Permalink
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Thank you for this, and especially for providing the sources. However, these three generations are a little hard to swallow, as Thomas DUdley (illegit) would have a son when he was only 14 years and 1 month old). The fact that he was illegitimated doesn't really indicate a "late baptism", especially when his purported father was only 21.

--Joe Cook
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-20 01:01:45 UTC
Permalink
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Thank you for this, and especially for providing the sources. However, these three generations are a little hard to swallow, as Thomas DUdley (illegit) would have a son when he was only 14 years and 1 month old). The fact that he was illegitimated doesn't really indicate a "late baptism", especially when his purported father was only 21.
--Joe Cook
Certainly true, although it could perhaps also be interpreted that Francis at Betchworth might have had a son several years earlier than the baptism (teen pregnancy), and only when he reached adulthood himself did he become involved in the child's life and have him baptized. Most, but not all children were christened in the first few months of life, but some small proportion as children. The Betchworth baptism could very easily be for a different Thomas, and yet a Francis and a Thomas did both die in Wellingborough. What their relationship was is clearly undetermined with what I've found to date.

I can't even absolutely confirm that Francis of Concord's father was a John, without finding the court or probate records alluded to connect them (Pandemic doesn't help!). It does seem likely though given approximate dates, proximity, and the fact that Francis Dudley of Concord's eldest known son was named John (b. 10 Mar 1674/75 at Concord), from what I've found so far.
https://ma-vitalrecords.org/MA/Middlesex/Concord/aBirthsD.shtml

Even a determination that the Francis baptised at Wellingborough 26 Jan 1639/40 was the same as the man later at Concord, Mass would be suggestive that he is related to the Francis Dudley, Gent. who died at Wellingborough 6 years earlier. A same first name like that, in the same place, at about the same time frame almost certainly suggests some level of kinship.

Thanks for your note and interest.
Carl-Henry Geschwind
2021-03-20 02:00:36 UTC
Permalink
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Thank you for this, and especially for providing the sources. However, these three generations are a little hard to swallow, as Thomas DUdley (illegit) would have a son when he was only 14 years and 1 month old). The fact that he was illegitimated doesn't really indicate a "late baptism", especially when his purported father was only 21.
--Joe Cook
Certainly true, although it could perhaps also be interpreted that Francis at Betchworth might have had a son several years earlier than the baptism (teen pregnancy), and only when he reached adulthood himself did he become involved in the child's life and have him baptized. Most, but not all children were christened in the first few months of life, but some small proportion as children. The Betchworth baptism could very easily be for a different Thomas, and yet a Francis and a Thomas did both die in Wellingborough. What their relationship was is clearly undetermined with what I've found to date.
I can't even absolutely confirm that Francis of Concord's father was a John, without finding the court or probate records alluded to connect them (Pandemic doesn't help!). It does seem likely though given approximate dates, proximity, and the fact that Francis Dudley of Concord's eldest known son was named John (b. 10 Mar 1674/75 at Concord), from what I've found so far.
https://ma-vitalrecords.org/MA/Middlesex/Concord/aBirthsD.shtml
Even a determination that the Francis baptised at Wellingborough 26 Jan 1639/40 was the same as the man later at Concord, Mass would be suggestive that he is related to the Francis Dudley, Gent. who died at Wellingborough 6 years earlier. A same first name like that, in the same place, at about the same time frame almost certainly suggests some level of kinship.
Thanks for your note and interest.
The only court appearance of John Dudley prior to 1671 in Middlesex County Court that I have been able to find was in December 1658, when he sued Thomas Kimball of Charlestown for non-payment of an account; the suit was withdrawn when it came to court. For the complaint see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3Q-CHSL-7?i=393&cat=210946 (top slip); for the court record see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8979-SJV?i=94&cc=2061550&cat=267196 (left-hand side). It appears this was the basis for "Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658" in Savage's dictionary.
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-20 04:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl-Henry Geschwind
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Thank you for this, and especially for providing the sources. However, these three generations are a little hard to swallow, as Thomas DUdley (illegit) would have a son when he was only 14 years and 1 month old). The fact that he was illegitimated doesn't really indicate a "late baptism", especially when his purported father was only 21.
--Joe Cook
Certainly true, although it could perhaps also be interpreted that Francis at Betchworth might have had a son several years earlier than the baptism (teen pregnancy), and only when he reached adulthood himself did he become involved in the child's life and have him baptized. Most, but not all children were christened in the first few months of life, but some small proportion as children. The Betchworth baptism could very easily be for a different Thomas, and yet a Francis and a Thomas did both die in Wellingborough. What their relationship was is clearly undetermined with what I've found to date.
I can't even absolutely confirm that Francis of Concord's father was a John, without finding the court or probate records alluded to connect them (Pandemic doesn't help!). It does seem likely though given approximate dates, proximity, and the fact that Francis Dudley of Concord's eldest known son was named John (b. 10 Mar 1674/75 at Concord), from what I've found so far.
https://ma-vitalrecords.org/MA/Middlesex/Concord/aBirthsD.shtml
Even a determination that the Francis baptised at Wellingborough 26 Jan 1639/40 was the same as the man later at Concord, Mass would be suggestive that he is related to the Francis Dudley, Gent. who died at Wellingborough 6 years earlier. A same first name like that, in the same place, at about the same time frame almost certainly suggests some level of kinship.
Thanks for your note and interest.
The only court appearance of John Dudley prior to 1671 in Middlesex County Court that I have been able to find was in December 1658, when he sued Thomas Kimball of Charlestown for non-payment of an account; the suit was withdrawn when it came to court. For the complaint see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3Q-CHSL-7?i=393&cat=210946 (top slip); for the court record see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8979-SJV?i=94&cc=2061550&cat=267196 (left-hand side). It appears this was the basis for "Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658" in Savage's dictionary.
Thank you Carl-Henry,
That certainly confirms that John Dudley was present by 1658. Here's the mention of Francis indicating his age as 26 in 1666. He's again found on pages 97 and 104 of the same volume. About 2/3's of the way down the page-
https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/middlesex-county-ma-abstracts-of-court-records-1643-1674/image?pageName=27&volumeId=12381

Other mentions of John Dudley from American Ancestors volumes-
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 140
1661 Decr 6 Debts of names appear of John Cromwell- names appear of ..... John Dudley of Charlestowne
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 151
166- July 21 the Credits of Estate of John Cromwell deceased trader with y Indians on Merrimack River near Chelmsford ... Jno Dudley due for Wool
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 41
1665 6 28 (pg. 69) Writ agst Nicholas Wall als Wallis servant to Robt: Long. Suit of Madam Francis Hopkins for frequenting her house after warning to ye contrary & the abuseing her maid servant as being wth child by him. Recog: Robert Longe & John Dudly -(large fair signature)
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 95
1669 Dec 16 Writ agst Joanna Davison Ex or Admt of her husband Nicholas Suit of John Dudley for Service in 1662
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 119
1671 4(mo) 2 Joseph Armitage Obligation to John Harris to Sel Cord Wood Witness John Dudley ...
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 118
1671 Mar 30 Test: John Dudley Ae fifty five (55) concg Joseph Armitage-John Harris of Charlestown

The last yields John's approximate age of 55 in 1671. Certainly the pair seems to align pretty well chronologically with the Wellingborough men.
https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/middlesex-county-ma-abstracts-of-court-records-1643-1674/image/?pageName=118&volumeId=12381

I'll have to scrutinize more carefully and see if I can find one mentioning them both together which I've seen alluded to.
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-21 01:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Carl-Henry Geschwind
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor, it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5. If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Thank you for this, and especially for providing the sources. However, these three generations are a little hard to swallow, as Thomas DUdley (illegit) would have a son when he was only 14 years and 1 month old). The fact that he was illegitimated doesn't really indicate a "late baptism", especially when his purported father was only 21.
--Joe Cook
Certainly true, although it could perhaps also be interpreted that Francis at Betchworth might have had a son several years earlier than the baptism (teen pregnancy), and only when he reached adulthood himself did he become involved in the child's life and have him baptized. Most, but not all children were christened in the first few months of life, but some small proportion as children. The Betchworth baptism could very easily be for a different Thomas, and yet a Francis and a Thomas did both die in Wellingborough. What their relationship was is clearly undetermined with what I've found to date.
I can't even absolutely confirm that Francis of Concord's father was a John, without finding the court or probate records alluded to connect them (Pandemic doesn't help!). It does seem likely though given approximate dates, proximity, and the fact that Francis Dudley of Concord's eldest known son was named John (b. 10 Mar 1674/75 at Concord), from what I've found so far.
https://ma-vitalrecords.org/MA/Middlesex/Concord/aBirthsD.shtml
Even a determination that the Francis baptised at Wellingborough 26 Jan 1639/40 was the same as the man later at Concord, Mass would be suggestive that he is related to the Francis Dudley, Gent. who died at Wellingborough 6 years earlier. A same first name like that, in the same place, at about the same time frame almost certainly suggests some level of kinship.
Thanks for your note and interest.
The only court appearance of John Dudley prior to 1671 in Middlesex County Court that I have been able to find was in December 1658, when he sued Thomas Kimball of Charlestown for non-payment of an account; the suit was withdrawn when it came to court. For the complaint see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3Q-CHSL-7?i=393&cat=210946 (top slip); for the court record see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8979-SJV?i=94&cc=2061550&cat=267196 (left-hand side). It appears this was the basis for "Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658" in Savage's dictionary.
Thank you Carl-Henry,
That certainly confirms that John Dudley was present by 1658. Here's the mention of Francis indicating his age as 26 in 1666. He's again found on pages 97 and 104 of the same volume. About 2/3's of the way down the page-
https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/middlesex-county-ma-abstracts-of-court-records-1643-1674/image?pageName=27&volumeId=12381
Other mentions of John Dudley from American Ancestors volumes-
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 140
1661 Decr 6 Debts of names appear of John Cromwell- names appear of ..... John Dudley of Charlestowne
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 151
166- July 21 the Credits of Estate of John Cromwell deceased trader with y Indians on Merrimack River near Chelmsford ... Jno Dudley due for Wool
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 1, pg. 41
1665 6 28 (pg. 69) Writ agst Nicholas Wall als Wallis servant to Robt: Long. Suit of Madam Francis Hopkins for frequenting her house after warning to ye contrary & the abuseing her maid servant as being wth child by him. Recog: Robert Longe & John Dudly -(large fair signature)
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 95
1669 Dec 16 Writ agst Joanna Davison Ex or Admt of her husband Nicholas Suit of John Dudley for Service in 1662
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 119
1671 4(mo) 2 Joseph Armitage Obligation to John Harris to Sel Cord Wood Witness John Dudley ...
Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 118
1671 Mar 30 Test: John Dudley Ae fifty five (55) concg Joseph Armitage-John Harris of Charlestown
The last yields John's approximate age of 55 in 1671. Certainly the pair seems to align pretty well chronologically with the Wellingborough men.
https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/middlesex-county-ma-abstracts-of-court-records-1643-1674/image/?pageName=118&volumeId=12381
I'll have to scrutinize more carefully and see if I can find one mentioning them both together which I've seen alluded to.
I was just reacquainting myself with the immediate family of Gov. Thomas Dudley as presented in Royal Families- Americans of Royal and Noble Ancestry, Vol. 1, Governor Thomas Dudley and Descendants through Five Generations by Marston Watson, 2nd Edition, 2004. On pages 2 and 3 the children of Gov. Thomas by his 1 wife Dorothy Yorke are presented as:

i) Rev. Samuel Dudley, b. 30 Nov 1608 at All Saints Church, Northampton, co. Northants
ii) Anne Dudley, b. 20 Mar. 1611/12 at Northampton, co. Northants
iii) Patience Dudley, b. 4 Feb 1613/14 at Northampton, co. Northants

Then a gap of 6 years.... before children resume at different locations

iv) Sarah Dudley, b. 23 July 1620 at Semperingham, co. Lincoln
v) Mercy Dudley, b. 27 Sep. 1621 at Yardley-Hastings, co. Northants

Given the knowledge that there are relatively steady births with a gap of 6 years followed by multiple changes of residences for the later births; and also the probable residence of a brother of Gov. Thomas named Francis at Wellingborough, co. Northants- Is there any reason to suspect that the John Dudley born to a Thomas Dudley at Wellingborough bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 (which lies very near Northampton and on the road to Semperingham) was not in fact born to the future Gov. Thomas Dudley and Dorothy Yorke? His apparent birth date coincides perfectly with the gap in this couple's otherwise regular births, and all of the Governor's other children ended up in Middlesex co., Massachusetts. In fact John Dudley is apparently the only Dudley of early Massachusetts Bay that somehow is excluded from this family group? Given a probable son of John's named Francis, and that Gov. Thomas's evidently has a brother now believed to be named Francis, this John could quite possibly be an overlooked son. Absence of mention in a will or other documentation is not sufficient grounds to exclude that possibility, as many such instances can be found to occur. This is particularly the case if someone became estranged, or was older and was given consideration in an earlier period before the father's death. Such was quite often the case when a later wife entered the family as happened here.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mark Jennings
2021-03-28 19:26:26 UTC
Permalink
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.
Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor,
Aren't these two statements contradictory: how many 17th century provincial tailors had gentry status?
it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son > Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5.
Except that we also find the following in the Betchworth registers:

"Francis Dudley was buried the 18th of February" [1604/5]

This indicates either that Thomas the illegitimate son was baptised on the day of his father's funeral, or the burial entry is in error and should refer to *Thomas son of* Francis Dudley. It certainly casts significant doubt on the speculation that these were members of the Wellingborough family.
If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Francis Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony (b. bef. 26 Jan 1639/40 Wellingborough; d. c. 1702 Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony), md. Sarah Wheeler
I thought that the possibility of these two Francis Dudley’s perhaps being relations was just too interesting to not share. Any thoughtful insights and assistance are always appreciated. Hopefully I haven't erred, that this has been discussed here before?!
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-28 20:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jennings
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.
Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor,
Aren't these two statements contradictory: how many 17th century provincial tailors had gentry status?
it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son > Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5.
"Francis Dudley was buried the 18th of February" [1604/5]
This indicates either that Thomas the illegitimate son was baptised on the day of his father's funeral, or the burial entry is in error and should refer to *Thomas son of* Francis Dudley. It certainly casts significant doubt on the speculation that these were members of the Wellingborough family.
If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Francis Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony (b. bef. 26 Jan 1639/40 Wellingborough; d. c. 1702 Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony), md. Sarah Wheeler
I thought that the possibility of these two Francis Dudley’s perhaps being relations was just too interesting to not share. Any thoughtful insights and assistance are always appreciated. Hopefully I haven't erred, that this has been discussed here before?!
It's been rendered rather irrelevant at this point as the later Wellingborough church records appear to indicate these men continued to live on at that location and had large families, and therefore could not be the same as those who concurrently came to Massachusetts. They could be relations, but are evidently not the same individuals. A few of the dates of birth are unusually close together however, perhaps suggesting there may have been to John's present there, but further digging is warranted. Thanks for the interest, and if I find anything more definitive I'll be happy to share it.
ache...@gmail.com
2021-03-28 20:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jennings
This possibility might be of interest to some early New England researchers. Perhaps some others have some insights? Disclaimer- I am descended from Francis Dudley of Concord, MBC and am perhaps descended from Gov. Thomas Dudley via a stray Hilton that I’m still attempting to nail down.
In the Fall 2020 issue of the NEHGR is discussed the baptism of a probable brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, the 2nd Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. As such, I’ve not been investigating these possible connections for very long.
https://media.americanancestors.org/uploadedfiles/media/the_register/nehgr-2020-fall-entire.pdf
Hinman, Bary E., Francis Dudley, an Unknown Brother of Gov. Thomas Dudley, The New England Historical & Genealogical Register (NEHGS, Boston, Mass., 2020) Vol. 174, Page 301-2.
Though the parents of this “Francis Dudley, gen.” are not specifically named in the Hardwick, Northamptonshire baptismal record (bp. 10 Jun 1583), the god-parents/witnesses cited are discussed in the article to have assisted and had a relationship with Gov. Thomas Dudley as a young adult, suggesting that these two men were brothers. The baptism is mentioned in
http://www.northamptonshirerecordsociety.org.uk/eNpp/NppNo28.pdf (See page 328 footnote 4)
Some years later in nearby Wellingborough, Northamptonshire a Francis Dudley, taylor was buried at All Hallows on 6 April 1634. Assuming they are indeed one and the same man then,
Francis Dudley was born bef. 10 June 1583 in Hardwick and died bef. 6 April 1634 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.
Given the period of his life, his gentry status, and occupation as a tailor,
Aren't these two statements contradictory: how many 17th century provincial tailors had gentry status?
it’s possible he had business dealings in other counties. Perhaps his is (?) the same Francis Dudley who baptized a base son > Thomas Dudley at St. Michael, Betchworth, Surrey on 18 February 1604/5.
"Francis Dudley was buried the 18th of February" [1604/5]
This indicates either that Thomas the illegitimate son was baptised on the day of his father's funeral, or the burial entry is in error and should refer to *Thomas son of* Francis Dudley. It certainly casts significant doubt on the speculation that these were members of the Wellingborough family.
If so the child was quite probably named after Francis’ brother.
Jumping to Francis Dudley of Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony- it is said (original source/sources unknown to me) he appeared in connection with his father John Dudley in Charlestown and/or Concord, Mass. records about 1660. This John Dudley appears in Middlesex court records on March 30, 1671, then aged 55, giving him a birth about 1616.
Dudley, John, Charlestown 1658, was a witness 30 Mar.1671, then call. 55 yrs. old.
Source: A Genealogical Dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register; by James Savage, pub. Boston 1860, Vol. 2, pg. 75
Coincidentally or otherwise, a John Dodley was baptized at All Hallows, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 21 Mar 1618/9 to Thom Dodley. Several decades later Thomas Dodley was interred at All Hallows, Wellingborough 13 Mar 1642/3. Also at that same church just prior to Thomas’ death was baptized Francis Dudley 26 Jan 1639/40, son of John Dudley.
From Middlesex County, MA: Abstracts of Court Records, 1643-1674; Vol. 2, pg. 27 is found
1666 1mo 2 Case against Isaac Cozens brought by Joseph Jenkes of Concord for Debt. On 1666 2m 8 Francis Dudley Ae abt 26 yrs.
That would place Francis Dudley of Concord's year of birth at about 1640, and as such he could well be the child baptized at Wellingborough.
Preceding baptismal and death citations taken mostly from www.freereg.org.uk
Capt. Roger Dudley (b.c. 1555; d. 14 Mar 1590 France) & Susanna Thorne (b. 1559; d. -) -parents of Gov. Thomas Dudley (1576-1653)
Francis Dudley, gent. tailor of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Betchworth, Surrey (b. bef. 10 June 1583 Hardwick; d. bef. 6 April 1634 prob. Wellingborough)
Thomas Dudley (illegit.) of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 18 February 1604/5 Betchworth, Surrey; d. 13 Mar 1642/3 Wellingborough)
John Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire (b. bef. 21 Mar 1618/9 Wellingborough; d. aft. March 30, 1671 Middlesex county, Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Francis Dudley of Wellingborough, Northamptonshire and Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony (b. bef. 26 Jan 1639/40 Wellingborough; d. c. 1702 Concord, Massachusetts Bay Colony), md. Sarah Wheeler
I thought that the possibility of these two Francis Dudley’s perhaps being relations was just too interesting to not share. Any thoughtful insights and assistance are always appreciated. Hopefully I haven't erred, that this has been discussed here before?!
It's been rendered rather irrelevant at this point as the later Wellingborough church records appear to indicate these men continued to live on at that location and had large families, and therefore could not be the same as those who concurrently came to Massachusetts. They could be relations, but are evidently not the same individuals. A few of the dates of birth are unusually close together however, perhaps suggesting there may have been to John's present there, but further digging is warranted. Thanks for the interest, and if I find anything more definitive I'll be happy to share it.
That's "two" (2) John's present there. Sorry for the typo.

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