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Complete Peerage Addition: Agnes (living 1295), wife of Sir John de Pateshulle, of Pattishall, Northamptonshire
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c***@gmail.com
2020-07-24 22:22:48 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage 10 (1945): 314 (sub Pateshulle) has a brief account of Sir John de Pateshulle, died 1290, of Pattishall, Northamptonshire, Knight of the Shire for Bedfordshire, 1290. Regarding his marriage, the following information is provided:

"The name of his wife, whose parentage is unknown, seems to have been Hawise. He died at some time in 1290. Five years later, and still in 1316, his widow was holding Pattishall [Northamptonshire] in dower." END OF QUOTE.

In footnote i on the same page, the following additional information is provided regarding Sir John de Patteshulle's wife:

"In 1295 the mother of Simon de Patteshulle was holding Pattishall in dower, and Lady Hawise de Patteshulle who held it in 1316 was presumably the same person (Ann. Monastici, vol. iii, p. 401; Feudal Aids, vol. iv, p. 22)." END OF QUOTE.

As we can see, it appears that Sir John de Pattishulle's unknown wife survived him and was living in 1295. The editor of Complete Peerage "presumes" she is the same person as Lady Hawise de Pateshulle in 1316.

As it turns out, Sir John de Patteshulle's widow was actually named Agnes. This is proven by a Common Pleas lawsuit dated Easter term 1293, an abstract of which is provided below:

In Easter term 1293 Agnes, widow of John de Pateshull, claimed as her right 22s. 8d. rent in Middleton Milton and Collingtree (in Milton Malzor), Northamptonshire, which rent Philip de Quenton has granted to Philip de Gayton by fine.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/101, image 54f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no101/aCP40no101fronts/IMG_0054.htm).

The fine referenced in the above lawsuit has been abstracted and is available on Chris Phillips' great website, Some Notes on English Medieval Genealogy. A copy of abstract of this fine is copied below.

CP 25/1/175/57, number 309.
Link: Image of document at AALT
County: Northamptonshire.
Place: Westminster.
Date: Two weeks from St Michael, 21 Edward I [13 October 1293].
Parties: Philip de Gayton', querent, and Philip de Quenton', deforciant.
Property: The service of 1 [knight's] fee in Middelton' and Colentre.
Action: Plea of covenant.
Agreement: Philip de Quenton' has acknowledged the fee, together with the homage and all the service of Simon de Pateshull' and his heirs, in respect of all the tenement which he held before of Philip de [Quenton'] in the aforesaid vills, to be the right of Philip de Gayton', as that which Philip de Gayton' has of his gift, to hold to Philip de Gayton' and his heirs, of the chief lords for ever. And besides Philip de Quenton' granted for himself and his heirs that 22 shillings and 8 pence of rent - which Agnes, who was the wife of John de Pateshull', holds for life of the inheritance of Philip de Quenton' in the aforesaid vills on the day the agreement was made, and which after the decease of Agnes ought to revert to Philip de Quenton' and his heirs - after the decease of Agnes shall remain to Philip de Gayton' and his heirs, to hold together with the fee of the chief lords for ever.
Warranty: Warranty, in respect of the fee.
For this: Philip de Gayton' has given him 10 pounds sterling.
Note: This agreement was made in the presence of Simon and Agnes, and they did fealty to Philip de Gayton' in the court.

Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.)
Persons: Philip de Gayton, Philip de Quinton, Simon de Pattishall, John de Pattishall, Agnes de Pattishall
Places: Milton Malsor, Collingtree

Reference: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_175_57.shtml#309

In summary, it appears that Sir John de Pateshulle was survived by a wife, Agnes, who occurs in both a lawsuit and a fine dated 1293. Agnes was still living in 1295, as stated by Complete Peerage. She is obviously a separate and distinct woman from Lady Hawise de Pateshulle living in 1316.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Sir John de Pateshulle and his wife, Agnes:

Barbara Aubrey, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Humphrey Davie, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Percival Lowell, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, Elizabeth Saint John, Mary Johanna Somerset.

Do you descend from this couple? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian and Genealogist
joseph cook
2020-07-25 04:57:44 UTC
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<snip>
In summary, it appears that Sir John de Pateshulle was survived by a wife, Agnes, who occurs in both a lawsuit and a fine dated 1293. Agnes was still living in 1295, as stated by Complete Peerage. She is obviously a separate and distinct woman from Lady Hawise de Pateshulle living in 1316.
<snip>
Do you descend from this couple? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Great find. Yes, I am a Percival Lowle descendant.

Agnes's son Simon seems to have named his daughter Agnes (wife of Sir John Pabenham).


--Joe C
Michael Cayley
2020-07-25 10:05:58 UTC
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Thank you for this, I have recently started doing some work on WikiTree on the ancestry of Mary Johanna Somerset, so for me your timing is perfect.
Jan Wolfe
2020-07-26 17:01:10 UTC
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On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 6:22:50 PM UTC-4, ***@gmail.com wrote:
...
...
Post by c***@gmail.com
Do you descend from this couple? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian and Genealogist
Great find, Douglas. Thanks for sharing the information.

Is this descent to Henry VII correct?
John de Pateshulle=Agnes
Simon de Pateshulle=Isabel de Stonegrave
John de Pateshulle=Mabel de Grandison
Sibel de Pateshulle=Roger Beauchamp
Roger Beauchamp=Joan Clopton
Roger Beauchamp=Mary
John Beauchamp=Edith Stourton
Margaret Beauchamp=Jean Beaufort
Margaret Beaufort=Edmund Tudor
Henry VII

If so, then my ancestor 1714 colonial immigrant Katherine Craighead Homes is an descendant of John de Pateshulle and Agnes.
c***@gmail.com
2020-07-26 17:15:44 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

I wish to thank Joe and Michael for their comments. Much appreciated.

In my original post, I stated that Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle, occurs in a "lawsuit" in 1293. The purpose of this legal action seems to have been to force Agnes to do fealty in court for her rents in preparation for the fine which was recorded later the same year. Chris Phillips informs me that this doesn't seem entirely consistent with the received wisdom about the procedures for fines.

Be that as it may, I incorrectly gave the reference for the 1293 legal action as http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no101/aCP40no101fronts/IMG_0054.htm

The correct reference is actually http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no100/aCP40no100fronts/IMG_0054.htm

I was working in both 100 and 101 the same day. I inadvertedly pulled up the wrong citation.

Elsewhere Chris Phillips has found a related legal action involving the same matter at the following reference:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no102/aCP40no102fronts/IMG_0054.htm

Likewise I've located yet another legal action involving Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle in 1293:

In Easter term 1293 Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle, sued Philip de Montgomery in the Court of Common Pleas regarding one messuage and lands in Great Gowele [North Crawley], Buckinghamshire, which she claimed as her right. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/100, image 69f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no100/aCP40no100fronts/IMG_0054.htm).

VCH Buckingham 4 (1927): 327-338 shows that the Pateshulle family and Philip de Montgomery both had land holdings in North Crawley, Buckinghamshire. It also notes that North Crawley has been known as Great Craule in older medieval records.

Joe has pointed out that Simon de Pateshulle (died 1295), son of John de Pateshulle (died 1290), had a daughter named Agnes de Pateshulle (died 1313), who married John de Pabenham. For particulars of the younger Agnes de Pateshulle, see Cal. IPM 5 (1908): 209 and VCH Bedford 3 (1912): 40-43. I presume that this Agnes de Pateshulle was named for her grandmother, Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle.

Finally, I note that Complete Peerage states that John de Pateshulle (died 1290) was a Knight of the Shire for Northamptonshire in 1290. The source for this information is Palgrave, Parliamentary Writs & Writs of Military Summons 1 (1827): i (Cal. of Writs & Returns).

If you have a line of descent from John de Pateshulle (died 1290) and Agnes his wife, I'd very much like to see it posted here on the newsgroup.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian and Genealogist
Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
"The name of his wife, whose parentage is unknown, seems to have been Hawise. He died at some time in 1290. Five years later, and still in 1316, his widow was holding Pattishall [Northamptonshire] in dower." END OF QUOTE.
"In 1295 the mother of Simon de Patteshulle was holding Pattishall in dower, and Lady Hawise de Patteshulle who held it in 1316 was presumably the same person (Ann. Monastici, vol. iii, p. 401; Feudal Aids, vol. iv, p. 22)." END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, it appears that Sir John de Pattishulle's unknown wife survived him and was living in 1295. The editor of Complete Peerage "presumes" she is the same person as Lady Hawise de Pateshulle in 1316.
In Easter term 1293 Agnes, widow of John de Pateshull, claimed as her right 22s. 8d. rent in Middleton Milton and Collingtree (in Milton Malzor), Northamptonshire, which rent Philip de Quenton has granted to Philip de Gayton by fine.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/101, image 54f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no101/aCP40no101fronts/IMG_0054.htm).
The fine referenced in the above lawsuit has been abstracted and is available on Chris Phillips' great website, Some Notes on English Medieval Genealogy. A copy of abstract of this fine is copied below.
CP 25/1/175/57, number 309.
Link: Image of document at AALT
County: Northamptonshire.
Place: Westminster.
Date: Two weeks from St Michael, 21 Edward I [13 October 1293].
Parties: Philip de Gayton', querent, and Philip de Quenton', deforciant.
Property: The service of 1 [knight's] fee in Middelton' and Colentre.
Action: Plea of covenant.
Agreement: Philip de Quenton' has acknowledged the fee, together with the homage and all the service of Simon de Pateshull' and his heirs, in respect of all the tenement which he held before of Philip de [Quenton'] in the aforesaid vills, to be the right of Philip de Gayton', as that which Philip de Gayton' has of his gift, to hold to Philip de Gayton' and his heirs, of the chief lords for ever. And besides Philip de Quenton' granted for himself and his heirs that 22 shillings and 8 pence of rent - which Agnes, who was the wife of John de Pateshull', holds for life of the inheritance of Philip de Quenton' in the aforesaid vills on the day the agreement was made, and which after the decease of Agnes ought to revert to Philip de Quenton' and his heirs - after the decease of Agnes shall remain to Philip de Gayton' and his heirs, to hold together with the fee of the chief lords for ever.
Warranty: Warranty, in respect of the fee.
For this: Philip de Gayton' has given him 10 pounds sterling.
Note: This agreement was made in the presence of Simon and Agnes, and they did fealty to Philip de Gayton' in the court.
Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.)
Persons: Philip de Gayton, Philip de Quinton, Simon de Pattishall, John de Pattishall, Agnes de Pattishall
Places: Milton Malsor, Collingtree
Reference: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_175_57.shtml#309
In summary, it appears that Sir John de Pateshulle was survived by a wife, Agnes, who occurs in both a lawsuit and a fine dated 1293. Agnes was still living in 1295, as stated by Complete Peerage. She is obviously a separate and distinct woman from Lady Hawise de Pateshulle living in 1316.
Barbara Aubrey, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Humphrey Davie, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Percival Lowell, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, Elizabeth Saint John, Mary Johanna Somerset.
Do you descend from this couple? If so, I'd very much appreciate seeing your line of descent posted here on the newsgroup.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian and Genealogist
joseph cook
2020-07-27 03:19:37 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
I wish to thank Joe and Michael for their comments. Much appreciated.
In my original post, I stated that Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle, occurs in a "lawsuit" in 1293. The purpose of this legal action seems to have been to force Agnes to do fealty in court for her rents in preparation for the fine which was recorded later the same year. Chris Phillips informs me that this doesn't seem entirely consistent with the received wisdom about the procedures for fines.
Be that as it may, I incorrectly gave the reference for the 1293 legal action as http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no101/aCP40no101fronts/IMG_0054.htm
The correct reference is actually http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no100/aCP40no100fronts/IMG_0054.htm
I was working in both 100 and 101 the same day. I inadvertedly pulled up the wrong citation.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no102/aCP40no102fronts/IMG_0054.htm
In Easter term 1293 Agnes, widow of John de Pateshulle, sued Philip de Montgomery in the Court of Common Pleas regarding one messuage and lands in Great Gowele [North Crawley], Buckinghamshire, which she claimed as her right. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/100, image 69f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no100/aCP40no100fronts/IMG_0054.htm).
Thanks. The reference is correct here, but not the link. The correct link is:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/CP40no100/aCP40%20no100fronts/IMG_0069.htm

It is the 6th entry down the page.

Cheers,
Joe Cook
P Nielsen Hayden
2020-08-02 13:27:52 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Finally, I note that Complete Peerage states that John de Pateshulle
(died 1290) was a Knight of the Shire for Northamptonshire in 1290.
Actually, CP says Bedfordshire, as you correctly noted in your post of 24 July.
Adrian Channing
2020-07-27 16:13:55 UTC
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There is quite a lot of information on Sr John Pateshull in "Knights of Edward I" edited by Rev C Moor and reproduced in Harleian Society vol LXXXIII (for the year 1931), page 8, but suggests the detail may refer to two men, father and son. This must be the case if C.P. is correct in stating one died in 1290.

Adrian
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