Discussion:
John Henry, Gateway ancestor
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a***@gmail.com
2017-02-28 16:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's already traveled this road and verified independently.

In near-contemporary bios of Gov. Patrick Henry there's mention that his grandmother was "the sister of Rev. William Robertson" which many have taken to mean the son of William Robertson of Gladney and father of William Robertson the historian.

I've found a letter from Margaret Donald to Gov. Patrick Henry, written in 1790, and she tells him his ancestry at the insistence of their cousin David Henry (presumably the one who went to London and worked with Edward Cave on the Gentleman's Magazine) and she only lays out from his grandparents and down and makes no mention that his grandmother is related to such a prominent historian as William Robertson.

I see that there are "papers related to family history" in the William Robertson papers at the National Library of Scotland, but whether these are related to his own family, or families he researched for his publications, I don't know. I'm considering hiring a local genealogist there to take a peek for me, but before I went to that expense I wanted to float this family here on this board to see if anyone had any insight.

Thank you,
Angela Trigg
Descendant of gateway immigrants Col. Walter Aston, Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter, Katherine Deighton (via Gov. Thomas Dudley), John Henry, Warham Horsmanden, Henry Isham, and William Randolph
Stewart Baldwin
2017-02-28 17:58:06 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
Hello,
This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's already traveled this road and verified independently.
Roberts uses only secondary sources, and does not check the primary
sources, so no royal line appearing in "Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants" should be regarded as "established" without further
verification. Previous incarnations of that work included alleged royal
descents for two of my ancestors, both of which turned out to be false.
It is worth checking the secondary sources he cites to see if any of
them provide proof (or give a clue to where to check next), but if that
does not lead to proof, then the supposed descent is probably a red herring.

Stewart Baldwin
Angela Trigg
2017-02-28 18:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stewart Baldwin
Post by a***@gmail.com
Hello,
This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's already traveled this road and verified independently.
Roberts uses only secondary sources, and does not check the primary
sources, so no royal line appearing in "Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants" should be regarded as "established" without further
verification. Previous incarnations of that work included alleged royal
descents for two of my ancestors, both of which turned out to be false.
It is worth checking the secondary sources he cites to see if any of
them provide proof (or give a clue to where to check next), but if that
does not lead to proof, then the supposed descent is probably a red herring.
Stewart Baldwin
Thank you, that was my fear... I'll keep digging and will check out those papers of the historian Robertson to see if he references HIS famous cousin here, Patrick Henry :)
Nathan Murphy
2017-03-01 06:26:35 UTC
Permalink
We'll look forward to hearing what you find.

Nathan
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Stewart Baldwin
Post by a***@gmail.com
Hello,
This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd
Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it
with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been
able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's
not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's
already traveled this road and verified independently.
Post by Stewart Baldwin
Roberts uses only secondary sources, and does not check the primary
sources, so no royal line appearing in "Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants" should be regarded as "established" without further
verification. Previous incarnations of that work included alleged royal
descents for two of my ancestors, both of which turned out to be false.
It is worth checking the secondary sources he cites to see if any of
them provide proof (or give a clue to where to check next), but if that
does not lead to proof, then the supposed descent is probably a red
herring.
Post by Stewart Baldwin
Stewart Baldwin
Thank you, that was my fear... I'll keep digging and will check out those
papers of the historian Robertson to see if he references HIS famous cousin
here, Patrick Henry :)
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Kelsey Jackson Williams
2017-03-01 11:07:30 UTC
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This claim also appears in Browning's _Americans of Royal Descent_:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eyik0rO0HlsC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=%22Patrick+Henry%22+%2B+%22William+Robertson%22&source=bl&ots=RBsMP7zFaI&sig=g1KjY-jIAanuDwW_qPHs2Xl5R0M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw_pTrkbXSAhXrLMAKHUH0D1EQ6AEIQjAJ#v=onepage&q=%22Patrick%20Henry%22%20%2B%20%22William%20Robertson%22&f=false

I'm a little skeptical of this, though, as Alexander Henry and Jean Robertson, the governor's supposed grandparents don't seem to appear anywhere in the Scottish OPRs (or the Aberdeen Episcopal registers).

FWIW, the will of Patrick Henry, Minister of St. Paul's Parish, Hanover County, and uncle of the governor (http://www.jstor.org/stable/4245679) makes no mention of any family in Scotland.

All the best,
Kelsey
Post by a***@gmail.com
Hello,
This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's already traveled this road and verified independently.
In near-contemporary bios of Gov. Patrick Henry there's mention that his grandmother was "the sister of Rev. William Robertson" which many have taken to mean the son of William Robertson of Gladney and father of William Robertson the historian.
I've found a letter from Margaret Donald to Gov. Patrick Henry, written in 1790, and she tells him his ancestry at the insistence of their cousin David Henry (presumably the one who went to London and worked with Edward Cave on the Gentleman's Magazine) and she only lays out from his grandparents and down and makes no mention that his grandmother is related to such a prominent historian as William Robertson.
I see that there are "papers related to family history" in the William Robertson papers at the National Library of Scotland, but whether these are related to his own family, or families he researched for his publications, I don't know. I'm considering hiring a local genealogist there to take a peek for me, but before I went to that expense I wanted to float this family here on this board to see if anyone had any insight.
Thank you,
Angela Trigg
Descendant of gateway immigrants Col. Walter Aston, Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter, Katherine Deighton (via Gov. Thomas Dudley), John Henry, Warham Horsmanden, Henry Isham, and William Randolph
Angela Trigg
2017-03-01 15:28:44 UTC
Permalink
<<I'm a little skeptical of this, though, as Alexander Henry and Jean Robertson, the governor's supposed grandparents don't seem to appear anywhere in the Scottish OPRs (or the Aberdeen Episcopal registers). >>

I'm skeptical too, but for other reasons. Though it turns out that Alexander Henry went by Patrick Henry in the records. What's looking more plausible is that he's a daughter of Gilbert Robertson (brother of William of Gladney) and Janet Graham and there is a record of a Jane Robertson (which she's also gone by) born to them. I'm going by memory right now, but can dig that up.

<<FWIW, the will of Patrick Henry, Minister of St. Paul's Parish, Hanover County, and uncle of the governor (http://www.jstor.org/stable/4245679) makes no mention of any family in Scotland. >>

I'll take a look at that will, but I'm not going as far as them not being Scottish, because there's a letter from Margaret Donald (in Scotland) written to her cousin Gov. Patrick Henry and she was asked by their mutual cousin David Henry (who left Scotland at ten and ventured to London and ended up working on the Gentleman's Magazine with Edward Cave) to tell the Gov about their family and relations. But she only tells the governor of his grandparents on down and makes no mention of him being a first cousin of a famous historian. It could be that she didn't rank such a thing as important, but it is odd.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~klaw/Henry/margtitle.html

This puzzle is intriguing, for sure, and for now I've disconnected her in my tree from the William Robertson of Gladney line.

Cheers,
Angela
Angela Trigg
2017-03-01 15:32:34 UTC
Permalink
On, and per Stewart's advice, I looked up Boyd600 references to see if those secondary references reference anything further that point to primary documentation, and they don't.
r***@yahoo.com
2017-03-01 16:03:22 UTC
Permalink
I don't see any reason to doubt the family was Scottish, as Margaret Donald's letter to "Patrick Henry, Esq., Scotchtown, Hanover County, Virginia" is dated from Aberdeen in 1790 and mentions that "your grand father's name was Alx Henry. he married a Jean Robertson whos Brother came to virginia and was living when my Br[other] Wm. Duguid was with your father. Jean Robertson had two sons, your father and the Parson of hanover [Virginia]. Three daughters who are dead long ago. there is children living witness, the two Mr. Milns and my selfe to t? [word not identified]. The rest is out of my knowledge as I am a stranger at home. My mothers name was Jean Henry. David Hen[ry's] father was your Grand father's uncle; my mother your Aunt. all this I believe you know but my cousin seems desirous you should know again."

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~klaw/Henry/part3.html
r***@yahoo.com
2017-03-01 16:14:52 UTC
Permalink
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=r1lKAAAAMAAJ&q=%22alex+henry%22+robertson&dq=%22alex+henry%22+robertson&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG87Wd2bXSAhVJNSYKHQNOA3A4HhDoAQhJMAk

It seems there is a large book on William Diuguid of Virginia, apparently the brother mentioned by Margaret Donald.
r***@yahoo.com
2017-03-01 16:51:14 UTC
Permalink
One source states that Patrick's father "John Henry was the first cousin to Miss Eleanor Syme, and therefore also closely related to John Syme, who emigrated to Virginia."

https://books.google.com/books?id=_P8XAAAAMAAJ&q=%22closely+related+to+john+syme%22&dq=%22closely+related+to+john+syme%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr55XB4bXSAhXCRCYKHXyzDzkQ6AEIHDAA

Alexander Henrie, litster, and Elizabeth Syme were married in Edinburgh in Dec. 1655, which might be a clue:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KIQwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA672&dq=%22alexander+henrie%22+scotland&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfs53i4LXSAhWE6SYKHXrhC0EQ6AEILjAD#v=onepage&q=%22alexander%20henrie%22%20scotland&f=false
r***@yahoo.com
2017-03-01 19:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Presumably the name in Scotland was sometimes spelled "Hendrie."
r***@yahoo.com
2017-03-01 20:32:09 UTC
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From Oxford Dictionary of National Bio:

"Henry, David (1709–1792), printer, was born on 26 December 1709 and baptized the following day at Foveran, 12 miles north of Aberdeen, the son of Alexander Henry; his mother's name is unrecorded. It is thought that the father of the American hero Patrick Henry (1736–1799) was his cousin (Timperley, 776)."
Angela Trigg
2017-03-01 20:52:35 UTC
Permalink
Exactly-- that Margaret Donald letter is a gold mine. There's no reason to doubt their Scottish origins.

Thanks for the links on the other books--will mine those for more clues. I'm thinking Margaret accidentally switched David Henry and John Henry's dad's names, and that the info on this side of the pond that says Gov. Henry's grandfather was Alexander all stems from that letter and that he was actually Patrick since all the records uncovered so far show his name as Patrick Henry/Hendrie and not Alexander.
s***@charter.net
2017-03-01 21:47:55 UTC
Permalink
may i ask what is a Gateway Ancestor,thank you

debbietn

-----------------------------------------From:
***@yahoo.com
To:
Cc:
Sent: 01-Mar-2017 20:35:10 +0000
Subject: Re: John Henry, Gateway ancestor

From Oxford Dictionary of National Bio:

"Henry, David (1709–1792), printer, was born on 26 December 1709
and baptized the following day at Foveran, 12 miles north of Aberdeen,
the son of Alexander Henry; his mother's name is unrecorded. It is
thought that the father of the American hero Patrick Henry
(1736–1799) was his cousin (Timperley, 776)."

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d***@gmail.com
2019-07-16 03:40:22 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
Hello,
This is apparently an established royal line outlined in Gary Boyd Roberts' "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" but I'm attempting to verify it with contemporary primary sources which in my first blush I haven't been able to do. His sources appear to be secondary? I'm not saying the proof's not out there at all, but just thought I'd post here to see if anyone's already traveled this road and verified independently.
In near-contemporary bios of Gov. Patrick Henry there's mention that his grandmother was "the sister of Rev. William Robertson" which many have taken to mean the son of William Robertson of Gladney and father of William Robertson the historian.
I've found a letter from Margaret Donald to Gov. Patrick Henry, written in 1790, and she tells him his ancestry at the insistence of their cousin David Henry (presumably the one who went to London and worked with Edward Cave on the Gentleman's Magazine) and she only lays out from his grandparents and down and makes no mention that his grandmother is related to such a prominent historian as William Robertson.
I see that there are "papers related to family history" in the William Robertson papers at the National Library of Scotland, but whether these are related to his own family, or families he researched for his publications, I don't know. I'm considering hiring a local genealogist there to take a peek for me, but before I went to that expense I wanted to float this family here on this board to see if anyone had any insight.
Thank you,
Angela Trigg
Descendant of gateway immigrants Col. Walter Aston, Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter, Katherine Deighton (via Gov. Thomas Dudley), John Henry, Warham Horsmanden, Henry Isham, and William Randolph
Hello, Im not sure if this helps at all or even if you're still seeking information in Patrich Henry but he and I share a grandfather. His great grandfather and my 8x great grandfather was John Robertson. You can find this and much more info on the bloodline here http://www.robisonandblythe.org/getperson.php?personID=I24351&tree=RobisonandBlythe
Hope that helps!
Mike Robertson

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