Discussion:
Henry Whitfield Genealogy on BYU website
(too old to reply)
John Brandon
2008-09-05 22:46:09 UTC
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http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR=66215&REC=2
l***@att.net
2008-09-07 19:03:07 UTC
Permalink
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
a recent one is Sarah Palin:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm

She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.

Leslie
John Brandon
2008-09-07 20:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@att.net
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Gary Roberts will have a field day with this.

If John M. suddenly drops dead, we could have a Hawes descendant as
prez. (I'm* excited .... *not).
l***@att.net
2008-09-21 07:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Gary Roberts will have a field day with this.
If John M. suddenly drops dead, we could have a Hawes descendant as
prez. (I'm* excited .... *not).
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.

Leslie
John Brandon
2008-09-21 18:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.

Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?

Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
George's, Canterbury:

http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+henry+vanner#PPA184,M1

http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+henry+vanner
l***@att.net
2008-09-21 20:54:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.

Leslie
d***@googlemail.com
2017-04-02 17:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.

Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.

Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.

Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.

Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.

Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Description:
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives

Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?

Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
r***@yahoo.com
2017-04-03 20:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Interesting. The ancestry of Ursula, wife of alderman Henry Vanner, is given in this pedigree in the 1619 Kent Visitation:

https://books.google.com/books?id=o79MAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA184&dq=%22hen+vanner%22+touke&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGsNjTi4nTAhXKOCYKHfl6DasQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22hen%20vanner%22%20touke&f=false

Unfortunately, I don't see any Merry/ Baker connections (on that side, at least).
lmahler@att.net
2017-04-04 07:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@googlemail.com
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.
Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.
Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.
Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.
Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.
Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives
Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?
Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
I checked the marriage index for East Kent,
which is available on Findmypast.
There is no entry for Christopher Merry's marriage,
and no marriage record for Richard Baker and Margaret Merry.

The index for East Kent wills shows that the surname
Merry is very rare in the region. So they may have moved in
from somewhere else.

Most of the wills for eastern Kent are available on Familysearch.org.
However, you need to have a family search account, and you need
to be at one of the centers to look at those records.

Leslie
r***@yahoo.com
2017-04-04 14:37:59 UTC
Permalink
This webpage gives an abstract of Christopher Merry's will from 1610/11. It mentions "daughter Margaret Hawker" as well as "Joane, Joyce, Mary & Thomas Baker and John & Elizabeth Haawker, children of my daughter Margaret Hawker."

https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/christopher-merry-4334/genstory/323/will-of-christopher-merry
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-05 13:18:59 UTC
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Post by ***@att.net
Post by d***@googlemail.com
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.
Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.
Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.
Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.
Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.
Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives
Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?
Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
I checked the marriage index for East Kent,
which is available on Findmypast.
There is no entry for Christopher Merry's marriage,
and no marriage record for Richard Baker and Margaret Merry.
The index for East Kent wills shows that the surname
Merry is very rare in the region. So they may have moved in
from somewhere else.
Most of the wills for eastern Kent are available on Familysearch.org.
However, you need to have a family search account, and you need
to be at one of the centers to look at those records.
Leslie
Leslie,

If the father of Richard Baker, father of Joyce Baker, wife of Nicholas Butler, was Thomas Baker of Whittingham Hall, Suffolk, and Leyton, Essex, then -- unless I'm mistaken -- Joyce descends from Edward I, King of England, and Eleanor of Castile, as follows:
Edward I, King of England = Eleanor of Castile
Joan of Acre = Gilbert de Clare, 3rd Earl of Gloucester
Eleanor de Clare = Hugh le Despenser, Baron le Despenser
Isabel le Despenser = Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel
Edmund FitzAlan of Arundel = Sibyl de Montagu
Philippa FitzAlan = Sir Richard Cergeaux of Colquite
Elizabeth Cergeaux = Sir William de Marney
Anne Marney = Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron in East Horndon
Sir William Tyrrell = Eleanor Darcy
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of East Horndon = Beatrix Cokayne
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron = Constance Blount
John Tyrrell of Heron, Esquire = Anne Browne
Katherine Tyrrell = Richard Baker of Sissinghurst, Kent
Thomas Baker of Whittingham Hall, Suffolk, and Leyton, Essex = Griselda Barnes
Richard Baker = Margaret Merry
Joyce Baker = Nicholas Butler

Shawn
lmahler@att.net
2019-01-05 19:15:56 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by ***@att.net
Post by d***@googlemail.com
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.
Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.
Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.
Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.
Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.
Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives
Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?
Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
I checked the marriage index for East Kent,
which is available on Findmypast.
There is no entry for Christopher Merry's marriage,
and no marriage record for Richard Baker and Margaret Merry.
The index for East Kent wills shows that the surname
Merry is very rare in the region. So they may have moved in
from somewhere else.
Most of the wills for eastern Kent are available on Familysearch.org.
However, you need to have a family search account, and you need
to be at one of the centers to look at those records.
Leslie
Leslie,
Edward I, King of England = Eleanor of Castile
Joan of Acre = Gilbert de Clare, 3rd Earl of Gloucester
Eleanor de Clare = Hugh le Despenser, Baron le Despenser
Isabel le Despenser = Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel
Edmund FitzAlan of Arundel = Sibyl de Montagu
Philippa FitzAlan = Sir Richard Cergeaux of Colquite
Elizabeth Cergeaux = Sir William de Marney
Anne Marney = Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron in East Horndon
Sir William Tyrrell = Eleanor Darcy
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of East Horndon = Beatrix Cokayne
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron = Constance Blount
John Tyrrell of Heron, Esquire = Anne Browne
Katherine Tyrrell = Richard Baker of Sissinghurst, Kent
Thomas Baker of Whittingham Hall, Suffolk, and Leyton, Essex = Griselda Barnes
Richard Baker = Margaret Merry
Joyce Baker = Nicholas Butler
Shawn
Not surprisingly, this connection is wrong.

Richard Baker, the father of Joyce Butler, died in 1604,
as previously mentioned.

Richard, the son of Thomas Baker & Griselda Barnes,
was still living in 1626:

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/baker-thomas-1625

Leslie
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-05 19:40:15 UTC
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Post by ***@att.net
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by ***@att.net
Post by d***@googlemail.com
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.
Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.
Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.
Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.
Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.
Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives
Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?
Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
I checked the marriage index for East Kent,
which is available on Findmypast.
There is no entry for Christopher Merry's marriage,
and no marriage record for Richard Baker and Margaret Merry.
The index for East Kent wills shows that the surname
Merry is very rare in the region. So they may have moved in
from somewhere else.
Most of the wills for eastern Kent are available on Familysearch.org.
However, you need to have a family search account, and you need
to be at one of the centers to look at those records.
Leslie
Leslie,
Edward I, King of England = Eleanor of Castile
Joan of Acre = Gilbert de Clare, 3rd Earl of Gloucester
Eleanor de Clare = Hugh le Despenser, Baron le Despenser
Isabel le Despenser = Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel
Edmund FitzAlan of Arundel = Sibyl de Montagu
Philippa FitzAlan = Sir Richard Cergeaux of Colquite
Elizabeth Cergeaux = Sir William de Marney
Anne Marney = Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron in East Horndon
Sir William Tyrrell = Eleanor Darcy
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of East Horndon = Beatrix Cokayne
Sir Thomas Tyrrell of Heron = Constance Blount
John Tyrrell of Heron, Esquire = Anne Browne
Katherine Tyrrell = Richard Baker of Sissinghurst, Kent
Thomas Baker of Whittingham Hall, Suffolk, and Leyton, Essex = Griselda Barnes
Richard Baker = Margaret Merry
Joyce Baker = Nicholas Butler
Shawn
Not surprisingly, this connection is wrong.
Richard Baker, the father of Joyce Butler, died in 1604,
as previously mentioned.
Richard, the son of Thomas Baker & Griselda Barnes,
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/baker-thomas-1625
Leslie
Thanks, Leslie. I hope you and others are continuing to look at this interesting line.
Shawn
wjhonson
2019-01-06 17:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@googlemail.com
Post by l***@att.net
Post by John Brandon
Post by l***@att.net
Perhaps of interest.
The will of Henry Vanner, Alderman of the City of Canterbury,
mentions cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford,
daughter of Richard Baker deceased, and her son Henry.
Leslie
Thanks. This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Yes, Baker's wife was probably Vanner's sister, but I havent found the
marriage record that would prove it.
Henry's sister Joan Vanner of Canterbury also left a will, but it
doesnt say much.
Another person mentioned in Henry Vanner's will is a relative in
Buckinghamshire.
Leslie
It's is possible that Richard Baker had a first wife who was sister of Hy Vanner but I don't see evidence of that.
Richard Baker's known wife was Margaret Merry dau of Christopher Merry (d1610 Ashford) & his ___ wife (name not known who d1611 Ashford). After Richard's death in 1604 his wife, Margaret (nee Merry), remarried John Harker, a miller of Ashford.
Joyce's sister Mary Baker b1604 Ashford was married to Thomas Boulding (my direct line). This is not the Thomas Boulding when went to Virginia in the Swan.
Henry Vanner was married to Ursula Rooke in 1575 Mersham.
Ursula Rooke was of daughter of Lawrence and Ursula (nee Scott) Rooke. Sir Reginald Scott (see Kent Visitions 1619) was Ursula's father.
Title: Ecclesiastical cause papers
Reference: DCb/J/J/50/223
Plaintiff: John HARKER sen & Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
Date: 21 Jul 1631
Held by: Canterbury Cathedral Archives, not available at The National Archives
Nicholas Butler, as you know was married to Joyce Baker (2nd marriage). John Harker (as noted above) was married to Joyce's mother, Margaret so they must be closely related to Vanner. I wonder if Margeret Merry's mother was a Vanner?
Does anyone have Henry & Ursula Vanner's wills? I have found extracts only
I am skeptical of this claim that Ursula and Henry were married in 1575
What is the source
John Brandon
2008-09-23 15:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Thanks.  This should be of interest to all descendants of the Butlers
of Martha's Vineyards, from immigrant Nicholas Butler and his wife
Joyce.
Is it possible Richard Baker's wife was a sister of Alderman Vanner of
Canterbury?
Burial records for Henry Vanner and his wife, "Mistris Vrsula," at St.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=alderman+he...
Diocese of Canterbury
Catalogue Ref. DCb

Creator(s):
Diocese of Canterbury

[Access Conditions]
Unrestricted

Judicial (Church Courts)

Church Courts: Papers in Ecclesiastical Suits - ref. DCb/J/J

1631

FILE - Ecclesiastical cause papers - ref. DCb/J/J/
50/223 - date: 21 Jul 1631
hit[from Scope and Content] Plaintiff: John HARKER sen
& Nich BUTLER exors; Defendant: Ursula VANNER rel; Documents: Alleg &
sent; Case: Test Hy VANNER St Geo Cant
d***@gmail.com
2019-01-07 16:57:15 UTC
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Post by l***@att.net
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
Alfred Butler
2020-12-29 21:13:39 UTC
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Post by l***@att.net
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
Good afternoon

I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
my 11 generation great-grandfather.

I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
This is how I came upon this discussion.

What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
A somewhat nice source of material

https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research

Regards Al
JBrand
2020-12-30 01:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alfred Butler
Post by l***@att.net
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
Good afternoon
I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
my 11 generation great-grandfather.
I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
This is how I came upon this discussion.
What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
A somewhat nice source of material
https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
Regards Al
While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.

As a Baker-Bayes descendant, I have also to take issue with the following paragraphs:

"The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.

It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."

I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.
Alfred Butler
2020-12-30 13:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alfred Butler
Post by l***@att.net
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
Good afternoon
I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
my 11 generation great-grandfather.
I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
This is how I came upon this discussion.
What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
A somewhat nice source of material
https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
Regards Al
While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.
"The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.
It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."
I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.
I appreciate the feedback. Thank you
David Boulding
2021-05-03 10:15:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alfred Butler
Post by l***@att.net
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
Leslie
Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
Good afternoon
I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
my 11 generation great-grandfather.
I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
This is how I came upon this discussion.
What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
A somewhat nice source of material
https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
Regards Al
While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.
"The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.
It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."
I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.
Yes, I agree with this. I am a direct descendent of Thomas Boulding (1592 - 1663) who married Mary Baker (sister to Joyce who m1623 to Nicholas Butler). If I read the mention of "cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford, daughter of Richard Baker deceased" in Hy Vanner's will it suggests Joyce as the connection rather than the Butler side. I think it unlikely that Richard Baker has much of a (recent) connection with the Sissinghurst Bakers. Reading various Sissinghurst Baker wills there is no mention of a Richard Baker that could match the Richard Baker who married Margaret Merry (unfortunately - It would have been nice if this were true as I live 5 munutes away from Sissinghurst Castle).

It should also be noted that there is no reliable source of Richard Baker being a miller that I can find. Joyce's step-father John Harker (Hawker) was the miller of Ashford and as Richard Baker died when the Joyce was only 2 years old he would have been the only father she knew... Whilst various histories say Richard Baker was a miller there is no confirmation of this anywhere. Prior to living in Ashford Richard brought up his family in Stanford, Kent (11 miles from Ashford). Perhaps he married Margaret Merry there? No marriage has been found. I am still actively investigating Richard Baker. I'll let you know how I get on. As the the Merry family I have drawn a blank although there is a Christopher Merry at the Merchant Taylor school in London (deadly enemy of the Skinners' company - I was educated at the Skinners' school - this emnity stems from "at sixes and sevens") See https://www.merchant-taylors.co.uk/news/billesden-award
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