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OLYVER MARTIN, Norman Crusader... please help the newbie :>
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a***@gmail.com
2018-10-30 22:33:46 UTC
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Dear All,
Can anyone come up with (or point the way to) a MARTIN pedigree going
back to antiquity - regarding the MARTIN family of Norman origins in
Ireland, exclusively, please? I'd read that a MARTIN family in Galway has
a pedigree that traces themselves back to OLYVER MARTIN, the famous
Norman Crusader with William II (if I remember correctly). Surely, one of
the Tribes of Galway has a detailed (published or unpublished) genealogy
somewhere. Your kind indulgence and assistance would be dearly
appreciated. Please let me know. Slainte.
Bill Martin
Dear All,
Can anyone come up with (or point the way to) a MARTIN pedigree going
back to antiquity - regarding the MARTIN family of Norman origins in
Ireland, exclusively, please? I'd read that a MARTIN family in Galway has
a pedigree that traces themselves back to OLYVER MARTIN, the famous
Norman Crusader with William II (if I remember correctly). Surely, one of
the Tribes of Galway has a detailed (published or unpublished) genealogy
somewhere. Your kind indulgence and assistance would be dearly
appreciated. Please let me know. Slainte.
Bill Martin
HELLO BILL: Take a look at my unfinished page: www.societyofsirmartindetours.tribalpages.com
I live at 33 Cottage Street, Apt 4, New London 06320 Connecticut USA
***@gmail.com

Oh, if you descend from Sir Oliver Martin you be in the R1a1a haplogroup! Cheers!
taf
2018-10-31 00:53:07 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
HELLO BILL: Take a look at my unfinished page: www.societyofsirmartindetours.tribalpages.com
Oh, if you descend from Sir Oliver Martin you be in the R1a1a haplogroup! Cheers!
That page has a massive amount of antiquarian mythology on it. Just as a trivial example, the armies of 1066 were not commanded by Generals.

taf
Peter Stewart
2018-10-31 05:42:31 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by a***@gmail.com
HELLO BILL: Take a look at my unfinished page: www.societyofsirmartindetours.tribalpages.com
Oh, if you descend from Sir Oliver Martin you be in the R1a1a haplogroup! Cheers!
That page has a massive amount of antiquarian mythology on it. Just as a trivial example, the armies of 1066 were not commanded by Generals.
It goes awry from the start - the heading 'Royal House of Blois' is a nonsense, as this was a comital family that happened to produce a cadet who became a king. And of course the family was Frankish, not Norman.

The fictitious connection of Robert fitz Martin's father to a Norman 'general' named William, then this imaginary personage to the counts of Blois, and then their family to St Martin of Tours, are absurd wishful thinking based on a late-medieval monastic fantasy of a common & worthless variety.

Peter Stewart
a***@gmail.com
2018-11-01 13:19:20 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
Post by taf
Post by a***@gmail.com
HELLO BILL: Take a look at my unfinished page: www.societyofsirmartindetours.tribalpages.com
Oh, if you descend from Sir Oliver Martin you be in the R1a1a haplogroup! Cheers!
That page has a massive amount of antiquarian mythology on it. Just as a trivial example, the armies of 1066 were not commanded by Generals.
It goes awry from the start - the heading 'Royal House of Blois' is a nonsense, as this was a comital family that happened to produce a cadet who became a king. And of course the family was Frankish, not Norman.
The fictitious connection of Robert fitz Martin's father to a Norman 'general' named William, then this imaginary personage to the counts of Blois, and then their family to St Martin of Tours, are absurd wishful thinking based on a late-medieval monastic fantasy of a common & worthless variety.
Peter Stewart
Very fuzzy meaningless diatribe! Silly guess quack everywhere! Most disturbed, pseudo-etymologist and appallingly recreative wit! Fantastic mythological vice. If you can't beat them, beat them anyway! The like of you pollute intellectual severity. May Christ forgive your assaults against the truth! That Phanuel should prosper and Adnachiel guard against you! Raphael is the archangel of the fifth ray of truth, wholeness. Amitiel. Uriel. Fidelem aniroum ab omni malo Dominus custodit, id est ne cum Diabolus ...Hos ergo peD des, unde et diabolus lapsus est, unde primus homo corruit, ad animam ...amen et amen.
j***@gmail.com
2018-11-01 15:32:48 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
Very fuzzy meaningless diatribe! Silly guess quack everywhere! Most disturbed, pseudo-etymologist and appallingly recreative wit! Fantastic mythological vice. If you can't beat them, beat them anyway! The like of you pollute intellectual severity. May Christ forgive your assaults against the truth! That Phanuel should prosper and Adnachiel guard against you! Raphael is the archangel of the fifth ray of truth, wholeness. Amitiel. Uriel. Fidelem aniroum ab omni malo Dominus custodit, id est ne cum Diabolus ...Hos ergo peD des, unde et diabolus lapsus est, unde primus homo corruit, ad animam ...amen et amen.
D. Spencer Hines, is that you?
Andrew Lancaster
2018-11-02 16:04:41 UTC
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GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Regulars,
Could anyone tell me anything substantive abut a man known as Oliver of
Jussey... the man, his ancestors, and descendents?
In the recent book by Jonathan Riley-Smith, The First Crusaders,
1095-1131 (1998), he examined all the narrative sources and many
cartularies and other collection of documents and established a list of
names of Crusaders. He identified 791 individuals who took the cross
between 1095 and 1131 and there one finds a man referred to as Oliver of
Jussey (1st Crusade)... Jussey is north-east of Dijon in France.
This Oliver of Jussey is believed to be the great-grandfather of Sir
Oliver Martyn, who you may remember I've posted previous queries about...
whose descendents came to be known as the Martin tribe of Galway,
Ireland, mentioned in Hardiman's account of Galway and their merchant
families whom came to be known as the "Tribes of Galway", which is
http://www.wombat.ie/galwayguide/history/hardiman/c1.html
"The Martin family of Galway claim descent from Sir Oliver Martyn, great
grandson of a Norman [Oliver of Jussey] who accompanied William the
Conquorer on the Norman Invasion of England in 1066. Sir Oliver is
supposed to have fought under Richard the Lionhearted in the Third
Crusade (1189-1192), who knighted him and awarded him the family coat of
arms. Oliver is alleged to have shared Richard's adventures on his
journey home and is supposed to have died while imprisoned with him in
Austria. A document was found in modern-day Hungary sometime in the last
century corroborating this statement. The Martin family is first
mentioned as living in Galway in 1270, along with other emerging families
such as Joyce, Kirwin and Lynch, and at some point in their history, they
claimed Oliver as their ancestor".
Yes, I was mistaken about any affiliation with William II in my previous
posts... apologies to the ghost of Rufus. Please share what you can with
me. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Bill
Bill for the family of Robert fitzMartin, referred to in one of the replies, in preference to websites start with...

Lyte, Sir Henry Maxwell (1919) “Burci, Falaise and Martin” in the ''Proceedings'' of the Somerset Archaeol. and Nat. Hist. Soc., vol. lxv, pp.1-27 https://archive.org/details/proceedings65some/page/n99

For Robert, the name "fitz Martin" was not a family name but literally just "son of Martin". It does nevertheless appear that he might be one of the earliest traceable ancestors of a Martin family in England. I guess there will have been many Martin families founded after him though, and it seems no one has any serious idea of who his father's ancestors were.
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