Discussion:
Chambre family of Thurgarton, Norfolk and Doughty family of Hanworth, Norfolk
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Peter G. M. Dale
2019-12-21 06:31:03 UTC
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Greetings,

I’m researching the Doughty family of Hanworth, Norfolk and the Chambre family of Thurgarton, Norfolk. According to ‘A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain & Ireland’, Vol. 2 – M to Z, p. 855,

“The family of Doughty derives from THOMAS DOUGHTY, of Hanworth, co. Norfolk, living temp. HENRY IV., son of SIMON DOUGHTY, of Hanworth, living temp. EDWARD III. This Thomas m. Margaret, daughter and sole heir of John Chambre, of Thurgerton”.

(https://books.google.ca/books?id=0NEKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA855&lpg=PA855&dq=The+family+of+Doughty+derives+from+THOMAS+DOUGHTY,+of+Hanworth,+co.+&source=bl&ots=a8QZoNdzql&sig=ACfU3U0dtIeYJvFIHxPSlX153LQkAv7mKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil8N7Ph8bmAhWaGs0KHVnQDHYQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20family%20of%20Doughty%20derives%20from%20THOMAS%20DOUGHTY%2C%20of%20Hanworth%2C%20co.&f=false).

I’ve identified the following information about John Chambre (b c 1385):

[1] “Chambre (JOHN CHAMBRE, of Thurgaton [sic], Sheriff of Norfolk, 1435). Az. a key in pale betw. two mullets of six points fesswise or.”

(source: ‘The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales’, (1884) - http://books.google.ca/books?id=WmpmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=%22chambre,+john%22+%22the+general+armory+of+england%22&source=bl&ots=LsdVbgOKGy&sig=S8S_K2_kaPVe9tmRxa_Cexw2pxQ&hl=en&ei=PY7ATtLeGIqU0QGhz9y6BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)

[2] “Chambre, John, of Thurgarton, Sheriff 1435. Dashwood ascribes: Az., a key in pale between 3 mullets of 6 points or.”

(source: ‘A List of Coat Armour USED IN NORFOLK Before the date of the first Herald's Visitation of 1563’ - http://www.archive.org/stream/listofcoatarmour01ryewiala/listofcoatarmour01ryewiala_djvu.txt)

[3] “Chambre, 1435, John, of Thurgaton. Azure, a key in pale, between two mullets of six points fesswise or. Visit. Norf. Harl. M.S S. ... —CHAMBRE, for Thurgaton read Thurgarton—”

(source: ‘Vicecomites Norfolciae, Or Sheriffs of Norfolk from the First Year of Henry the Second, to the Fourth of Queen Victoria’ - http://books.google.ca/books?id=7eoHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PT92&lpg=PT92&dq=%22chambre%22+%22thurgaton%22&source=bl&ots=J_RN7pAOek&sig=kx137cgLlIfKQojYBF2IokqlGMo&hl=en&ei=UX7dTq-uDYTv0gGv75DQBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22chambre%22%20%22thurgaton%22&f=false)

However, I cannot identify any further information about this John Chambre such as, for example, his family background and parentage and whether he, or a Thomas Chambre, was actually the Sheriff of Norfolk in 1435. In the same volume of ‘Vicecomites Norfolciae’, a “Thomas Chambre” is stated to have been the Sheriff of Norfolk in 1435. (see - https://books.google.ca/books?id=7eoHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PT18&lpg=PT18&dq=%22thomas+chambre%22+%22sheriffs+of+norfolk%22&source=bl&ots=J0WQfmBJik&sig=ACfU3U2xAsn9MzOwqdCpRbKDwLOL8OmuFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT6dm8jMbmAhXJPM0KHRlyB5wQ6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22thomas%20chambre%22%20%22sheriffs%20of%20norfolk%22&f=false)

I would very much appreciate any assistance in helping me identify further information about John Chambre (b c 1385) (purported father of Margaret Chambre wife of Thomas Doughty of Hanworth, Norfolk) and the Chambre family from which he descends. Thank you!

Cheers,

Pete
pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com
Peter G. M. Dale
2019-12-21 18:48:52 UTC
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Just a brief follow-up. I see there is the following reference in ‘Index to Four Series of Norfolk Inquisitions’, Volume II, (1892), edited by Walter Rye, p. 31:

“Chambre, de la or del – John de la Chambre; Tower, 26 Hen. VI., No. 6 (4, p. 234b).”

(source:
https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QaeYB7s8wkIgK2Er3vg1CSq3nbCLv7VvnpShJkKn7Dhika4bt8yOxrppUGhv1zUQNBZKg6GmuHWUQEdfkdXta7fgCm-o8t5BCFDcM92J3ljukh7r7nVOf9EwC_rSX6_02lJA1T3y3AJTZAedpOLpPgQNR23eph2vyHBnultChBDk-78kPMNBvoYETfPhd8VIYN3eAlQp5SneNt4o8ibSVBjdGuoqxX0efy0soJ4iR3EE95LnUg0LhmJr2CA7tTQHCQIJ9Flf)

Does anyone have access to the volume referenced in this entry, or know the source to which it refers? I’d like to review a copy of the above entry. Many thanks!

Cheers,

Pete
pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com
Peter G. M. Dale
2019-12-21 19:03:28 UTC
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Just a brief follow-up. I see there is the following reference in ‘Index to Four Series of Norfolk Inquisitions’, Volume II, (1892), edited by Walter Rye, p. 31:

“Chambre, de la or del – John de la Chambre; Tower, 26 Hen. VI., No. 6 (4, p. 234b).”

(source: https://archive.org/details/norfolkrecords12norf/page/30)

Does anyone have access to the volume referenced in this entry, or know the source to which it refers? I’d like to review a copy of the above entry. Many thanks!

Cheers,

Pete
pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com
g***@gmail.com
2019-12-21 20:22:34 UTC
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Post by Peter G. M. Dale
“Chambre, de la or del – John de la Chambre; Tower, 26 Hen. VI., No. 6 (4, p. 234b).”
(source: https://archive.org/details/norfolkrecords12norf/page/30)
Does anyone have access to the volume referenced in this entry, or know the source to which it refers? I’d like to review a copy of the above entry. Many thanks!
Cheers,
Pete
pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com
Reference is to Calendarium inquisitionum post mortem sive escaetarum, vol. 4. See the referenced page at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=iau.31858019288871&view=1up&seq=242 (right-hand column, near bottom). Not much information there, I'm afraid, as this is just an index.
John Higgins
2019-12-21 23:10:31 UTC
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Post by Peter G. M. Dale
Greetings,
I’m researching the Doughty family of Hanworth, Norfolk and the Chambre family of Thurgarton, Norfolk. According to ‘A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain & Ireland’, Vol. 2 – M to Z, p. 855,
“The family of Doughty derives from THOMAS DOUGHTY, of Hanworth, co. Norfolk, living temp. HENRY IV., son of SIMON DOUGHTY, of Hanworth, living temp. EDWARD III. This Thomas m. Margaret, daughter and sole heir of John Chambre, of Thurgerton”.
(https://books.google.ca/books?id=0NEKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA855&lpg=PA855&dq=The+family+of+Doughty+derives+from+THOMAS+DOUGHTY,+of+Hanworth,+co.+&source=bl&ots=a8QZoNdzql&sig=ACfU3U0dtIeYJvFIHxPSlX153LQkAv7mKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil8N7Ph8bmAhWaGs0KHVnQDHYQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20family%20of%20Doughty%20derives%20from%20THOMAS%20DOUGHTY%2C%20of%20Hanworth%2C%20co.&f=false).
[1] “Chambre (JOHN CHAMBRE, of Thurgaton [sic], Sheriff of Norfolk, 1435). Az. a key in pale betw. two mullets of six points fesswise or.”
(source: ‘The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales’, (1884) - http://books.google.ca/books?id=WmpmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=%22chambre,+john%22+%22the+general+armory+of+england%22&source=bl&ots=LsdVbgOKGy&sig=S8S_K2_kaPVe9tmRxa_Cexw2pxQ&hl=en&ei=PY7ATtLeGIqU0QGhz9y6BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
[2] “Chambre, John, of Thurgarton, Sheriff 1435. Dashwood ascribes: Az., a key in pale between 3 mullets of 6 points or.”
(source: ‘A List of Coat Armour USED IN NORFOLK Before the date of the first Herald's Visitation of 1563’ - http://www.archive.org/stream/listofcoatarmour01ryewiala/listofcoatarmour01ryewiala_djvu.txt)
[3] “Chambre, 1435, John, of Thurgaton. Azure, a key in pale, between two mullets of six points fesswise or. Visit. Norf. Harl. M.S S. ... —CHAMBRE, for Thurgaton read Thurgarton—”
(source: ‘Vicecomites Norfolciae, Or Sheriffs of Norfolk from the First Year of Henry the Second, to the Fourth of Queen Victoria’ - http://books.google.ca/books?id=7eoHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PT92&lpg=PT92&dq=%22chambre%22+%22thurgaton%22&source=bl&ots=J_RN7pAOek&sig=kx137cgLlIfKQojYBF2IokqlGMo&hl=en&ei=UX7dTq-uDYTv0gGv75DQBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22chambre%22%20%22thurgaton%22&f=false)
However, I cannot identify any further information about this John Chambre such as, for example, his family background and parentage and whether he, or a Thomas Chambre, was actually the Sheriff of Norfolk in 1435. In the same volume of ‘Vicecomites Norfolciae’, a “Thomas Chambre” is stated to have been the Sheriff of Norfolk in 1435. (see - https://books.google.ca/books?id=7eoHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PT18&lpg=PT18&dq=%22thomas+chambre%22+%22sheriffs+of+norfolk%22&source=bl&ots=J0WQfmBJik&sig=ACfU3U2xAsn9MzOwqdCpRbKDwLOL8OmuFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT6dm8jMbmAhXJPM0KHRlyB5wQ6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22thomas%20chambre%22%20%22sheriffs%20of%20norfolk%22&f=false)
I would very much appreciate any assistance in helping me identify further information about John Chambre (b c 1385) (purported father of Margaret Chambre wife of Thomas Doughty of Hanworth, Norfolk) and the Chambre family from which he descends. Thank you!
Cheers,
Pete
pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com
As a point of possible interest, John Chambre of Thurgarton is an ancestor in the 20th generation of Princes William and Harry. But I have no information on him beyond what you've provided here.
m***@gmail.com
2019-12-22 18:29:01 UTC
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The Princes also have two Doughty lines of descent. Richard K. Evans' "The Ancestry of Diana, Princess of Wales," cuts off after [4768] Robert Doughty,
m. [4769] Sarah Bransby and [4776] William Doughty m. [4777] Frances Kemp

Some of their descendants leading to the late Princess of Wales and her sons from Leo van de Pas' outstanding Genealogics database.

https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00431413&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8

https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00431398&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8

Leo listed Thomas Doughty and Maragaret Chambre's fathers in his database, nothing above and beyond that.

I hope everyone has a great holiday season and best wishes for 2020!
John Higgins
2019-12-22 20:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
The Princes also have two Doughty lines of descent. Richard K. Evans' "The Ancestry of Diana, Princess of Wales," cuts off after [4768] Robert Doughty,
m. [4769] Sarah Bransby and [4776] William Doughty m. [4777] Frances Kemp
Some of their descendants leading to the late Princess of Wales and her sons from Leo van de Pas' outstanding Genealogics database.
https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00431413&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8
https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00431398&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8
Leo listed Thomas Doughty and Maragaret Chambre's fathers in his database, nothing above and beyond that.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season and best wishes for 2020!
As might be expected, the two Doughty descents for the Princes which are "cut off" in the Evans book spring from a common ancestor a few generations before the "cutoff" point. Genealogics shows this common descent here:
https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00431407&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8

We should be a bit careful about attributing all the data in Genealogics to Leo now. In this case, the earlier Doughty data was based on information provided to Ian Fettes after Leo died.
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