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C.P. Addition: Death date of Alice (or Aleise) de Saluzzo, wife of Sir Edmund de Lacy, sometime style Earl of Lincoln
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c***@gmail.com
2019-10-10 19:56:52 UTC
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Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage 7 (1929): 680–681 (sub Lincoln) includes an account of Sir Edmund de Lacy, died 1258, sometime styled Earl of Lincoln.

Regarding his marriage, the following information is provided:

"He married, early in May 1247, at Woodstock, Alice, daughter of Manfred III, Marquis of Saluzzo. He died 2 June 1258, and was buried at Stanlaw ... She was living 10 Sept. 1304, and died before 12 July 1311, and was buried at the Black Friars, Pontefract." END OF QUOTE.

In footnote "n" on page 681, the author gives the source for the statement that Alice was living 10 Sept. 1304:

Ancient Correspondance (P.R.O.), 28/80

I find that Alice was living as late as 12 October 1309, when she presented to the church of Methley, Yorkshire. See Yorkshire Arch. & Topographical Journal 7 (1882): 422, which may be viewed at the following weblink:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015050577579&view=1up&seq=460

Complete Peerage no where informs us that this woman often occurs in contemporary records under the Latin form Alesia. The corresponding vernacular form for this given name is Aleise (or Aleyse, Alayse), not Alice.

Here are just a few examples of this lady as Alesia in contemporary records:

l. James, Hist. of Bradford & its Parish 1 (1866): 50, available at the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=vLJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA50

2. Hulton, Coucher Book, or Chartulary, of Whalley Abbey 2 (Chetham Soc. 11) (1847): 377–381, available at the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=PDPRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA377

3. Colvin, Building Accts. of King Henry III (1971): 200, available at the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=BckjAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Alesia+de+Lascy%22&dq=%22Alesia+de+Lascy%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi1i7L9s5LlAhWOrZ4KHexDApY4ChDoATABegQIBhAC

4. Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 50 (1889): 190, available at the following weblink:

https://books.google.com/books?id=rv4UAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Deputy+Keeper+1889&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQg-DYtJLlAhVSnJ4KHeoNAOcQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=Moton&f=false

This woman was the namesake for her grand-daughter, Alice (or Aleise) de Lacy (died 1348), wife successively of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, Eble le Strange, Lord Strange, and Sir Hugh de Frene, Lord Frene. There are numerous records of the grand-daughter in contemporary records, virtually all of them refer to her in Latin as Alesia, and in vernacular records as Aleise, Aleyse, or Alayse.

I find evidence in later periods that the name Aleise/Aleyse/Alayse eventually morphed into Alice. As such, I have chosen to style Alice di Saluzzo above as Alice (or Aleise) di Saluzzo in my records.



Douglas Richardson, Author, Historian, and Genealogist
Peter Stewart
2019-10-11 02:59:04 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 7 (1929): 680–681 (sub Lincoln) includes an account of Sir Edmund de Lacy, died 1258, sometime styled Earl of Lincoln.
"He married, early in May 1247, at Woodstock, Alice, daughter of Manfred III, Marquis of Saluzzo. He died 2 June 1258, and was buried at Stanlaw ... She was living 10 Sept. 1304, and died before 12 July 1311, and was buried at the Black Friars, Pontefract." END OF QUOTE.
Ancient Correspondance (P.R.O.), 28/80
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015050577579&view=1up&seq=460
If you bothered to pursue further entries in the source cited there, you
would find that she was living later than this.

Peter Stewart

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