Discussion:
Margaret Hare and Lewis Cokayne
(too old to reply)
wjhonson
2020-08-11 01:27:47 UTC
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Much of the Hare family can be gleamed from Burke's but I've noticed a curious document

http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110264770


Until now I have thought that Nicholas Hare was dead by 1591 s.p.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Genealogical_and_Heraldic_History_of_t/HKpfAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=ralph+hare+marie+holmeden&pg=PA244&printsec=frontcover

Clearly this must be him here in this marriage contract yet living 1597
with his next brother Ralph

It is odd how Richard who was the third brother and *should possibly* be the father of Margaret is not here.

https://books.google.com/books?id=HbwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA96

calls her the "sister" of Sir Ralph Hare so clearly she should be the daughter of Richard.

It makes me wonder if she were not actually the daughter of the elder Ralph (until now her uncle) and the idea that this Ralph d.s.p. is wrong.
wjhonson
2020-08-11 16:02:53 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Much of the Hare family can be gleamed from Burke's but I've noticed a curious document
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110264770
Until now I have thought that Nicholas Hare was dead by 1591 s.p.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Genealogical_and_Heraldic_History_of_t/HKpfAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=ralph+hare+marie+holmeden&pg=PA244&printsec=frontcover
Clearly this must be him here in this marriage contract yet living 1597
with his next brother Ralph
It is odd how Richard who was the third brother and *should possibly* be the father of Margaret is not here.
https://books.google.com/books?id=HbwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA96
calls her the "sister" of Sir Ralph Hare so clearly she should be the daughter of Richard.
It makes me wonder if she were not actually the daughter of the elder Ralph (until now her uncle) and the idea that this Ralph d.s.p. is wrong.
So now I have found the dates for Nicholas Hare who was called "dead by 1591 s.p." above

Will dated 16 Jan 1596/7, proved 24 May 1597

And the grant to his next brother Ralph of livery in his estates 4 Dec 1598

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/6ccfd5a3-3671-4e4d-b0ce-2f7b01e5bc23

Which by the way, the headline for this document section claims that this next Ralph d 1601
wjhonson
2020-08-11 16:16:21 UTC
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And then there is a HOP bio for Nicholas

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/hare-nicholas-1530-97

calling him third but first surviving son
and b abt 1530

Two of his brothers also have HOP

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/hare-hugh-1544-1620

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/hare-john-1546-1613

Which gives us rather firm dates for this Richard Hare of London who is supposed to be the father of
Ralph /Hare/ of Stow Bardolph; K. Bath
and of
Margaret /Hare/ m Lewis /Cokayne/ of Cokayne Hatley, co Bed

So Richard Hare if he was truly the next brother to Ralph, has to have a birthrange of 1532/1543
to be able to fit in the slot between Ralph and Hugh
wjhonson
2020-08-11 16:41:28 UTC
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Here I identify this cluster

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4e50070c-563e-441c-ae50-fe92bec1a556

as the first cousins of the man to whom they are alienating

Evidently Michael, Robert and William, sons of Nicholas Hare of Bruisyard Suff Speaker of the House
all died issueless ?
wjhonson
2020-08-11 16:58:49 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Here I identify this cluster
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4e50070c-563e-441c-ae50-fe92bec1a556
as the first cousins of the man to whom they are alienating
Evidently Michael, Robert and William, sons of Nicholas Hare of Bruisyard Suff Speaker of the House
all died issueless ?
Proof that at his death this elder Nicholas Hare of Bruisyard held the hundred and half of Clackclose

https://books.google.com/books?id=ln1LAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1256&lpg=PA1256&dq=Hare+in+strumpshaw+in+clackclose&source=bl&ots=51PYIckBZy&sig=ACfU3U2Xi5YqBpKqWQWOZbkd_McBo2Pxxg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFkoiby5PrAhUKM6wKHSpIBbsQ6AEwBHoECCEQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true

and this was being alienated to this nephew, heir of John Hare of London evidently already deada by this time

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4e50070c-563e-441c-ae50-fe92bec1a556
wjhonson
2020-08-11 17:11:14 UTC
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The father of these "seven sons and three daughters" Hare

http://books.google.com/books?id=K3MaAAAAYAAJ&dq=hugh%20baron%20coleraine&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q=hugh%20baron%20coleraine&f=true

Was that John Hare of London esq who has an 1565 IPM; C142/141/30
wjhonson
2020-08-11 17:18:24 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
The father of these "seven sons and three daughters" Hare
http://books.google.com/books?id=K3MaAAAAYAAJ&dq=hugh%20baron%20coleraine&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q=hugh%20baron%20coleraine&f=true
Was that John Hare of London esq who has an 1565 IPM; C142/141/30
That Michael Hare "eldest son" and Robert Hare "second son" of Nicholas Hare of Bruisyard, were close in age

https://books.google.com/books?id=ln1LAQAAIAAJ&lpg=PA1256&ots=51PYIckBZy&dq=Hare%20in%20strumpshaw%20in%20clackclose&pg=PA1257#v=onepage&q&f=false

Both matric fellow--commoner on the same day, from the same Gonville Hall

Were they twins?
wjhonson
2020-08-11 17:25:50 UTC
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And here I correct DNB

https://books.google.com/books?id=ln1LAQAAIAAJ&lpg=PA1256&ots=51PYIckBZy&dq=Hare%20in%20strumpshaw%20in%20clackclose&pg=PA1257#v=onepage&q&f=false

As we have already seen, *when* Robert Hare died in 1611, his "uncle John" was already DEAD (1565 IPM)

So here DNB says the estates passed to his uncle John, when in fact, it was his first cousin.

Nicholas was dead 1597, his next brother Ralph was dead 1601
So the estates should have then passed through the next brother "Richard" as HOP says, to Ralph Hare of Stow K.Bath who lived until 1623.

Curious
wjhonson
2020-08-11 17:28:14 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
And here I correct DNB
https://books.google.com/books?id=ln1LAQAAIAAJ&lpg=PA1256&ots=51PYIckBZy&dq=Hare%20in%20strumpshaw%20in%20clackclose&pg=PA1257#v=onepage&q&f=false
As we have already seen, *when* Robert Hare died in 1611, his "uncle John" was already DEAD (1565 IPM)
So here DNB says the estates passed to his uncle John, when in fact, it was his first cousin.
Nicholas was dead 1597, his next brother Ralph was dead 1601
So the estates should have then passed through the next brother "Richard" as HOP says, to Ralph Hare of Stow K.Bath who lived until 1623.
Curious
The DNB of his father is more careful here only saying that the estates passed to the "descendants of his brother John" without specifying which person.
wjhonson
2020-08-11 19:29:07 UTC
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In filling out this family tree more I have discovered that

When Sir Robert Drury of Hargrave sued George Parker of Whepsted
in 1606
This was actually his *uncle*. George having in 1587 married Ethelreda "Audrey" Drury, Robert's aunt.

In his counter complaint George mentions that previously, Sir William (Robert's father, George's brother-in-law) had given him over the complete management of the Drury estates.

Can someone find any evidence of that, other than George's word?
wjhonson
2020-08-11 21:07:40 UTC
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When William Drury made his will 1 Jul 1587, Audrey was not yet married.
George Parker in mentioned in the will as "trusty servant" and also made one of the executors.
wjhonson
2020-08-11 23:07:32 UTC
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So coming back to the Hares, we now see the reason why Richard Hare, the father of Margaret is NOT mentioned in her own marriage documents. He was DEAD. dead dead dead.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Hundred_of_Launditch_and_Deanery_of/iytSAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA658
wjhonson
2020-08-12 01:22:47 UTC
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When Richard Hare of London died 5 Oct 1575 he left *three* children : Ralph, RICHARD and Margaret.

In the 1601 will of Ralph Hare of the Inner Temple (his brother), this Ralph mentions "his unfortunate nephew Richard"

A correspondent in the 19th century states that this Richard cannot be traced.

I have found him, or rather his daughter

https://www.google.com/books/edition/London_Marriage_Licences_1521_1869/Xf8cAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Richard+Hare+1575&pg=PA201&printsec=frontcover

"Browne Mr Robert of St Martin in the Fields Middlesex milliner bachelor 21 father dead and Thomazine Hare of same spinster 19 daughter of Richard Hare esq in the county of Southwark sic who liveth in Kings Bench at the present distracted in wits consent of her uncle Sir Ralph Hare at St Mary Strand alias Savoy Middlesex 4 May 1622 B Browne Robert of St Helen London tailor "

It is clear that this can only be that same Ralph Hare K.Bath and his brother Richard, and this Richards daughter
wjhonson
2020-08-12 01:34:27 UTC
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And here is her baptism

Tamasin Hare, daughter of Richard
29 Jun 1603
St Peter le Poer, London (Batch C02229-2 wj)
wjhonson
2020-08-12 01:38:40 UTC
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Oh My God Becky

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5721884

So the mother of this Tamasin (Thomasin) was *also* named Thomasin
wjhonson
2020-08-12 01:53:49 UTC
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I think it's highly likely that here we see the ending of this mad Richard Hare, apparently having married two more times

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-environs/vol4/pp40-48

"Rebecca, the wife of Richard Hare, buried May 3, 1627; Lore, wife of Richard, buried Aug. 13, 1631; Richard Hare, (living lately in Ld Colerane's house,) buried Feb. 23, 1647–8."
wjhonson
2020-08-12 02:05:09 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
I think it's highly likely that here we see the ending of this mad Richard Hare, apparently having married two more times
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-environs/vol4/pp40-48
"Rebecca, the wife of Richard Hare, buried May 3, 1627; Lore, wife of Richard, buried Aug. 13, 1631; Richard Hare, (living lately in Ld Colerane's house,) buried Feb. 23, 1647–8."
Luckily the weird name of Lore leads us directly to their marriage

3 Jul 1628
St Mary Magdalene, London (Batch M054261 wj)
wjhonson
2020-08-12 02:53:36 UTC
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Elizabeth Barnes, daughter of Richard Barnes of London mercer was married three times.

Her life seems to be confused but the received wisdom is that she married :
1) Richard Hare of London (that one who d 5 Oct 1575)
2) George Rotheram of Someries who d 1599
3) George Peryent of Ayot St Peter, Knt

The idea that the M.I. at Ayte 2 Dec 1655 "ninety years old" is her has to be rejected.

If Sir Ralph Hare of Stow Bardolph who was b abt 1566 (per HOP) is her SON, than at 1655 she would have to be at least 105 and as much as 115 years old.

Clearly impossible.

So either the M I has been read wrong in her year of death. Perhaps being 1635
Or Sir George Peryent had a *third* wife also named Elizabeth
wjhonson
2020-08-12 02:56:13 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Elizabeth Barnes, daughter of Richard Barnes of London mercer was married three times.
1) Richard Hare of London (that one who d 5 Oct 1575)
2) George Rotheram of Someries who d 1599
3) George Peryent of Ayot St Peter, Knt
The idea that the M.I. at Ayte 2 Dec 1655 "ninety years old" is her has to be rejected.
If Sir Ralph Hare of Stow Bardolph who was b abt 1566 (per HOP) is her SON, than at 1655 she would have to be at least 105 and as much as 115 years old.
Clearly impossible.
So either the M I has been read wrong in her year of death. Perhaps being 1635
Or Sir George Peryent had a *third* wife also named Elizabeth
By the way, should someone say that she married some other George Peryent, here is his heir Philip (by his first wife) dealing with his own sisters *and* Sir Ralph Hare probably standing in for the widow and her dower or settlement

https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/C78_1623

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