Discussion:
Hamerton pedigree sources
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Penny Velander
2021-06-02 21:55:14 UTC
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Hi everyone, I have just been introduced to your site by someone on the fb British Genealogy group. I have been working on my family tree on and off for a couple of years and would appreciate your advice on acceptable sources.
My family, Hamerton, originate from Yorkshire/Lancashire. I have found pedigree listings for them in Burke's History of the Commoners and Whitaker's History and Antiquities of the Deanery of Craven in the County of York.
Are these accurate and acceptable sources to use for my tree.
Many thanks
Vance Mead
2021-06-03 05:29:14 UTC
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I would give more credence to contemprary sources. Are they from Hallifield Peel? There's a pedigree
in the Visitation of Yorkshire, 1584/5, for Hamerton of Hallifield Peel, with additions to 1612. This goes
Richard / John / Lawrence / Stephen / John. Stephen was living in 1612 and John his son was two years
old. Visitations are usually reasonably accurate going back a few generations, but farther back they can
be quite fanciful.

https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-hssl_visitation-yorkshire_CS437Y4A2-19990/page/n549/mode/2up

To give an idea of dates, here is a Common Pleas case from 1571. John Arthington is suing Lawrence
Hamerton of Halyfeld Peele, gent, for defamation. Lawrence is alleged to have said "Thowe art a false thieff
& a horse stealer for thowe stale a horse at Belbusshe."

(I always find the quotes in these defamation cases entertaining.)

Second entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Eliz/CP40no1296/cCP40no1296dorses/IMG_1145.htm
Vance Mead
2021-06-03 05:47:42 UTC
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Here's another visitation here, from 1563/4. I'm not sure how it fits in with the one above.

https://archive.org/details/visitationofyork00flow/page/152/mode/2up
Penny Velander
2021-06-03 09:37:39 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
Here's another visitation here, from 1563/4. I'm not sure how it fits in with the one above.
https://archive.org/details/visitationofyork00flow/page/152/mode/2up
Vance, thank you so much for your reply, which is fascinating as I have not heard of 'visitations' before - my day is now set aside to educate myself.
Yes, my Hamertons owned Hellifield Peel (as it known now) and also, for a period, Wigglesworth Hall. Sir Stephen was involved in the Northern Uprising alongside Aske and was beheaded for his part. The Hamerton family appears to intermarry with other well to do families in the area so are listed in many pedigrees.
Whittaker and Burke's books were both printed early 1800's - do you think they would have used the visitations as their source or found an alternative? Many thanks
Vance Mead
2021-06-03 10:41:17 UTC
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Visitations were made by the Heralds to see who was entitled to a Coat of Arms. They could be accurate when it involved the memory of the people involved, but going back a few generations people's memory could be hazy or even fraudulent.

Burke would probably have started with Visitations, supplemented by wills and feudal records (Inquisitions Post Mortem and Feudal surveys).

You can search IPMs here:
http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk

Feudal records for Yorkshire:
https://archive.org/details/inquisitionsasse06grea/page/n7/mode/2up

Abstracts of Feet of Fines:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/search.php

Legal records:
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/Main_Page

And using google to search Common Pleas
site:http://aalt.law.uh.edu/indices/cp40indices/ "hamerton, richard"
(For example)
Vance Mead
2021-06-03 13:08:27 UTC
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These are some wills of Hamerton.

https://archive.org/details/selectionwillsyo05surtuoft/page/44/mode/2up
Will (in Latin) of John Hamerton, of Wiglesworth, 1513, made before going to war against Scotland.
Eldest son Stephen, wife Elizabeth
Richard Hamerton, knight, deceased (his grandfather, according to visitation)
Daughter Anne
Sons Richard, Lawrence and Thomas

The rest of these are in English.

https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/68/mode/2up
Henry Hamerton, of York, 1537

https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/72/mode/2up
Jane Hamerton, of Craven, widow of Henry, 1537

https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/78/mode/2up
Elizabeth Hamerton, widow of Stephen Hamerton, 1538

https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/86/mode/2up
Richard Hamerton, of Slaidburn, 1538

https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/254/mode/2up
Stephen Hamerton, of Wiglesworth, 1546
Penny Velander
2021-06-03 20:31:56 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
These are some wills of Hamerton.
https://archive.org/details/selectionwillsyo05surtuoft/page/44/mode/2up
Will (in Latin) of John Hamerton, of Wiglesworth, 1513, made before going to war against Scotland.
Eldest son Stephen, wife Elizabeth
Richard Hamerton, knight, deceased (his grandfather, according to visitation)
Daughter Anne
Sons Richard, Lawrence and Thomas
The rest of these are in English.
https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/68/mode/2up
Henry Hamerton, of York, 1537
https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/72/mode/2up
Jane Hamerton, of Craven, widow of Henry, 1537
https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/78/mode/2up
Elizabeth Hamerton, widow of Stephen Hamerton, 1538
https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/86/mode/2up
Richard Hamerton, of Slaidburn, 1538
https://archive.org/details/aselectionofwill06surtuoft/page/254/mode/2up
Stephen Hamerton, of Wiglesworth, 1546
Thank you for your time and effort Vance, it would have taken me weeks to drill down to this sort of information.

I have huge learning curves going on - greatly appreciated
taf
2021-06-03 18:14:08 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
Burke would probably have started with Visitations, supplemented by wills
and feudal records (Inquisitions Post Mortem and Feudal surveys).
Unfortunately, Burke also incorporated a lot of material that was not so well supported by primary documentation, such as the genealogies (of various qualities) conveyed to him by the families being covered. For material around the time of publication, Burke can be taken as a reasonably reliable source, but the farther back you get the worse it gets. Once you are a few centuries back, extreme care must be taken and nothing should be trusted without independent confirmation.

taf
Peter Stewart
2021-06-03 23:11:58 UTC
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Post by Vance Mead
Visitations were made by the Heralds to see who was entitled to a Coat of Arms. They could be accurate when it involved the memory of the people involved, but going back a few generations people's memory could be hazy or even fraudulent.
Burke would probably have started with Visitations, supplemented by wills and feudal records (Inquisitions Post Mortem and Feudal surveys).
In the case of Burke, "probably" is the most telling word. The fact that
we don't know his source/s for most of the information he states is a
problem even when that information may turn out to be correct.

There are in broad terms three ways that information is expressed in the
genealogical literature:

1. With precise and verifiable citation of specific source/s, or (as
frequently forced by publishers, but sometimes an exercise in
arse-covering) with imprecise citation of non-specific source/s that can
be verified only with unwarranted trouble on the reader's part

2. With less precise reference to earlier (primary or secondary)
authority that may or may not be verifiable

3. As a flat statement without any backing that can be checked.

Burke's method was usually #3, even if he may have been able to provide
more details in some instances, as he had profit in view and worried
about printing costs and space. Also his intended readership was fairly
uncritical, largely concerned with status and relationships more recent
than medieval connections, since hardly any Victorian snob chose a
marriage partner or approved a potential in-law on the basis of remote
blue-blood ancestry if this had not been sustained across centuries.

Many of Burke's contemporaries who were more conscientious antiquarians
indulged themselves in #2, vaguely asserting that such-and-such died on
a stated date or in a particular year as recorded in monastic obituaries
or annals, or that A married B according to a contract between their
fathers X and Y. These writers often knew that some of their readers
could and a few would find out the source/s for themselves, and so their
reputations might be at stake if their details were wrong (although this
didn't stop some of them from inventing or even forging medieval
documents). Again, the information may turn out to be true but should
remain suspect until it does.

The most useful type of secondary literature follows the convention in
the first part of #1. But even then, it is sometimes appalling how
poorly the writer has understood or analysed information in the primary
source/s adduced.

Best of all is the approach shown by Vance, seeking out primary sources
directly and working out for oneself what can be securely drawn from these.

This newsgroup can be helpful, and in acumen you are already far ahead
of the average genealogy dabbler by coming here and asking sensible
questions.

Peter Stewart
Penny Velander
2021-06-04 10:43:43 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Vance Mead
Visitations were made by the Heralds to see who was entitled to a Coat of Arms. They could be accurate when it involved the memory of the people involved, but going back a few generations people's memory could be hazy or even fraudulent.
Burke would probably have started with Visitations, supplemented by wills and feudal records (Inquisitions Post Mortem and Feudal surveys).
In the case of Burke, "probably" is the most telling word. The fact that
we don't know his source/s for most of the information he states is a
problem even when that information may turn out to be correct.
There are in broad terms three ways that information is expressed in the
1. With precise and verifiable citation of specific source/s, or (as
frequently forced by publishers, but sometimes an exercise in
arse-covering) with imprecise citation of non-specific source/s that can
be verified only with unwarranted trouble on the reader's part
2. With less precise reference to earlier (primary or secondary)
authority that may or may not be verifiable
3. As a flat statement without any backing that can be checked.
Burke's method was usually #3, even if he may have been able to provide
more details in some instances, as he had profit in view and worried
about printing costs and space. Also his intended readership was fairly
uncritical, largely concerned with status and relationships more recent
than medieval connections, since hardly any Victorian snob chose a
marriage partner or approved a potential in-law on the basis of remote
blue-blood ancestry if this had not been sustained across centuries.
Many of Burke's contemporaries who were more conscientious antiquarians
indulged themselves in #2, vaguely asserting that such-and-such died on
a stated date or in a particular year as recorded in monastic obituaries
or annals, or that A married B according to a contract between their
fathers X and Y. These writers often knew that some of their readers
could and a few would find out the source/s for themselves, and so their
reputations might be at stake if their details were wrong (although this
didn't stop some of them from inventing or even forging medieval
documents). Again, the information may turn out to be true but should
remain suspect until it does.
The most useful type of secondary literature follows the convention in
the first part of #1. But even then, it is sometimes appalling how
poorly the writer has understood or analysed information in the primary
source/s adduced.
Best of all is the approach shown by Vance, seeking out primary sources
directly and working out for oneself what can be securely drawn from these.
This newsgroup can be helpful, and in acumen you are already far ahead
of the average genealogy dabbler by coming here and asking sensible
questions.
Peter Stewart
Peter, thank you for your kind words and the very informative breakdown on the different ways that information is expressed.

I started researching my family tree a couple of years ago and in all honesty expected to find my descendants were mostly Lancashire mill workers. This is mostly true for my paternal line but my maternal relatives are proving to be fascinating. The research has opened up a whole new world to me - history - of which I am ashamed to admit I knew very little about (I blame my Liverpool secondary modern education!!). Each generation I look at fills me with questions and the desire to know not only more about their lives but the wider society and events of that time. I am hooked.

I would be interested to know what the thinking is on Burke's contemporaries such as Whitaker and Foster?

This is an excellent group and people have been so kind in helping to fill the gaps in my knowledge without being judgemental - thank you
Peter Stewart
2021-06-05 01:16:34 UTC
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Post by Penny Velander
I would be interested to know what the thinking is on Burke's contemporaries such as Whitaker and Foster?
I've never read either of them, Penny - my interests in medieval
genealogy are mainly elsewhere than in Britain. But in general works
later than theirs are likely to be more reliable, as standards in the
field were vastly raised by Cokayne and Round in the late-19th century.

Peter Stewart
Vance Mead
2021-06-05 04:31:05 UTC
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Here is a list of the 15th century Hamerton wills in Yorkshire:

https://archive.org/details/indexwillsinyor01collgoog/page/n98/mode/2up
May 25, 1467. Hamerton, Hugh, Stokwith, May 2, 1467.
Feb. 27, 1405. Hammerton, Alan, York, merchant, Feb. 16, 1405.
Jan. 2, 1432.5. , Hamerton, Isabell, late wife of Alan H., of York, merchant, May
15, 1432.
Sep. 28, 1466. , Hamerton , James, Weststokwith (bur. Misterton), Sep. 10, 1466.
Jun. 27, 1449. I , Hamerton, Laurence, esq., Adm.
Nov. 18, 1398. , Hamerton, Margarat, Prob. Act.
Jan. 9, 1480.5. , Hammerton, Richard (bur. Preston in Craven), kt., Oct, 4, 1480.
Feb. 28, 1464. 5. Hammerton, Richard, Rect. St. Mary Vet., York, Jan. 3, 1464

Most of them can be found in other records.

Alan Hamerton and his wife Isabel are found in Feet of Fines abstracts (link in earlier post)
and in Common Pleas cases. Isabel's will is here:
https://archive.org/details/testamentaeborac30surtuoft/page/22/mode/2up
She and Alan had a son John. She had sisters Agnes and Ellen and a brother William.
I don't know how they connect with the family in Craven.

Lawrence and Sir Richard are in the 1563 Visitation and in several Common Pleas cases.

James Hamerton of West Stockwith could be another son of Lawrence, as shown in
Common Pleas in 1455:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no776/aCP40no776fronts/IMG_0046.htm
York. William Clyveland, of York, draper, versus Robert Leventhorp, of Kyepas, Yorks, esq; and James Hamerton, esq, son of Lawrence Hamerton, once of Craven, esq, formerly of Pontefract, Yorks, esq, for a debt of 60 shillings.

I interpret this to mean that Lawrence Hamerton, defunct, had been from Craven while James was in Pontefract.

Richard Hamerton the priest was the plaintiff in Common Pleas for trespass in 1463 in York:
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/807
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E4/CP40no807/bCP40no807dorses/IMG_1291.htm

I haven't found Hugh, but since he's in Stockwith there must be a connection to James.
John Schuerman
2021-06-06 21:10:34 UTC
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Post by Penny Velander
Hi everyone, I have just been introduced to your site by someone on the fb British Genealogy group. I have been working on my family tree on and off for a couple of years and would appreciate your advice on acceptable sources.
My family, Hamerton, originate from Yorkshire/Lancashire. I have found pedigree listings for them in Burke's History of the Commoners and Whitaker's History and Antiquities of the Deanery of Craven in the County of York.
Are these accurate and acceptable sources to use for my tree.
Many thanks
My last Hamerton ancestor was Alice, wife of Richard Sherburne, daughter of Lawrence Hamerton (d. bef. 27 June 1449) and his wife Isabel Tempest. For Lawrence’s ancestors I have depended in the first place on Whitaker’s Craven which you have obviously seen. Whitaker provides some documentation from calendars and other sources, but is not complete in that regard. My website, jschuerman.com, details some of what I know of the Hamertons, see the Schuerman-Wood-Worden tree. Some of it is well documented with many primary sources, some is documented only with secondary sources, and some has little documentation. I have a long list of Hamerton references, not incorporated in my website, mostly from calendars which I may post to SGM.

Other ancestors of the Hamertons were the Knolls and Arches. I have written an account of these families which can be found on Chris Phillips’ website at http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/arches/. If you are descended from Lawrence Hamerton, you are also presumably descended from his wife, Isabel Tempest. I have also done a considerable amount of research on the Tempests, some of which can be found on the same website.

You might want to look at the Autobiography of Philip Gilbert Hamerton (1834-94), a British artist and author, online at Google books. Chapter 29 (pp. 210-14) contains some genealogy. It is not documented but it is interesting to read.

Hellifield Peel was recently (in the last 20 years) restored and made into an elegant B&B. The story of its restoration was made the subject of a documentary on British TV which can be accessed on the Internet. My wife and I very much enjoyed our stay there a few years ago. It has now closed as a B&B and was up for sale for a time but has now been taken off the market. It is not far from Long Preston, a small town whose church holds the tomb of Lawrence Hamerton and his wife Isabel. The top of the tomb has the inscription pictured in Whitaker, now very much worn and hard to read.

I now live in New Hampshire and my wife and I hope to resume our formerly yearly expeditions to this area of Yorkshire and Lancashire.

John Schuerman
Penny Velander
2021-06-07 10:33:21 UTC
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Post by Penny Velander
Hi everyone, I have just been introduced to your site by someone on the fb British Genealogy group. I have been working on my family tree on and off for a couple of years and would appreciate your advice on acceptable sources.
My family, Hamerton, originate from Yorkshire/Lancashire. I have found pedigree listings for them in Burke's History of the Commoners and Whitaker's History and Antiquities of the Deanery of Craven in the County of York.
Are these accurate and acceptable sources to use for my tree.
Many thanks
My last Hamerton ancestor was Alice, wife of Richard Sherburne, daughter of Lawrence Hamerton (d. bef. 27 June 1449) and his wife Isabel Tempest. For Lawrence’s ancestors I have depended in the first place on Whitaker’s Craven which you have obviously seen. Whitaker provides some documentation from calendars and other sources, but is not complete in that regard. My website, jschuerman.com, details some of what I know of the Hamertons, see the Schuerman-Wood-Worden tree. Some of it is well documented with many primary sources, some is documented only with secondary sources, and some has little documentation. I have a long list of Hamerton references, not incorporated in my website, mostly from calendars which I may post to SGM.
Other ancestors of the Hamertons were the Knolls and Arches. I have written an account of these families which can be found on Chris Phillips’ website at http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/arches/. If you are descended from Lawrence Hamerton, you are also presumably descended from his wife, Isabel Tempest. I have also done a considerable amount of research on the Tempests, some of which can be found on the same website.
You might want to look at the Autobiography of Philip Gilbert Hamerton (1834-94), a British artist and author, online at Google books. Chapter 29 (pp. 210-14) contains some genealogy. It is not documented but it is interesting to read.
Hellifield Peel was recently (in the last 20 years) restored and made into an elegant B&B. The story of its restoration was made the subject of a documentary on British TV which can be accessed on the Internet. My wife and I very much enjoyed our stay there a few years ago. It has now closed as a B&B and was up for sale for a time but has now been taken off the market. It is not far from Long Preston, a small town whose church holds the tomb of Lawrence Hamerton and his wife Isabel. The top of the tomb has the inscription pictured in Whitaker, now very much worn and hard to read.
I now live in New Hampshire and my wife and I hope to resume our formerly yearly expeditions to this area of Yorkshire and Lancashire.
John Schuerman
John, many thanks indeed for joining in this thread and providing the links/information you have.

I am aware of the connection to the Knolls and Arches but have not really reached the stage of following that strand in any depth so the sources you have sent will be exceptionally helpful. I have had a quick wizz through your site and found it really interesting, I will enjoy exploring it in more depth over the next few days.

Yes, I am aware of PGH - he is my first cousin 4 x removed. I have an original copy of his book and refer to it regularly to build up a deeper insight into the family through his knowledge of them. He was quite a character. I love his cutting comment that "the Hamerton's do not seem to have distinguished themselves in anything except marrying heiresses, and in that they were remarkably successful".

I am very envious that you managed to stay at Hellifield Peel before it closed. I was planning to go 2019 but when I went to book it was closed. It will be interesting to see what happens to it next. I, too, am planning a visit to the area in October to do some research and put 'faces to the names' so to speak. I also live in Hampshire (perhaps Old Hampshire!!) near Winchester. Strangely, I discovered that my Grandfather x 2 Gilbert Holden Orme Hamerton moved to Hampshire for several years and lived about 5 miles away from where I live. I love all the interesting coincidences and stories that come from this research.
Many thanks again
Penny
Penny Velander
2021-06-13 09:05:11 UTC
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Post by Penny Velander
Post by Penny Velander
Hi everyone, I have just been introduced to your site by someone on the fb British Genealogy group. I have been working on my family tree on and off for a couple of years and would appreciate your advice on acceptable sources.
My family, Hamerton, originate from Yorkshire/Lancashire. I have found pedigree listings for them in Burke's History of the Commoners and Whitaker's History and Antiquities of the Deanery of Craven in the County of York.
Are these accurate and acceptable sources to use for my tree.
Many thanks
My last Hamerton ancestor was Alice, wife of Richard Sherburne, daughter of Lawrence Hamerton (d. bef. 27 June 1449) and his wife Isabel Tempest. For Lawrence’s ancestors I have depended in the first place on Whitaker’s Craven which you have obviously seen. Whitaker provides some documentation from calendars and other sources, but is not complete in that regard. My website, jschuerman.com, details some of what I know of the Hamertons, see the Schuerman-Wood-Worden tree. Some of it is well documented with many primary sources, some is documented only with secondary sources, and some has little documentation. I have a long list of Hamerton references, not incorporated in my website, mostly from calendars which I may post to SGM.
Other ancestors of the Hamertons were the Knolls and Arches. I have written an account of these families which can be found on Chris Phillips’ website at http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/arches/. If you are descended from Lawrence Hamerton, you are also presumably descended from his wife, Isabel Tempest. I have also done a considerable amount of research on the Tempests, some of which can be found on the same website.
You might want to look at the Autobiography of Philip Gilbert Hamerton (1834-94), a British artist and author, online at Google books. Chapter 29 (pp. 210-14) contains some genealogy. It is not documented but it is interesting to read.
Hellifield Peel was recently (in the last 20 years) restored and made into an elegant B&B. The story of its restoration was made the subject of a documentary on British TV which can be accessed on the Internet. My wife and I very much enjoyed our stay there a few years ago. It has now closed as a B&B and was up for sale for a time but has now been taken off the market. It is not far from Long Preston, a small town whose church holds the tomb of Lawrence Hamerton and his wife Isabel. The top of the tomb has the inscription pictured in Whitaker, now very much worn and hard to read.
I now live in New Hampshire and my wife and I hope to resume our formerly yearly expeditions to this area of Yorkshire and Lancashire.
John Schuerman
John, many thanks indeed for joining in this thread and providing the links/information you have.
I am aware of the connection to the Knolls and Arches but have not really reached the stage of following that strand in any depth so the sources you have sent will be exceptionally helpful. I have had a quick wizz through your site and found it really interesting, I will enjoy exploring it in more depth over the next few days.
Yes, I am aware of PGH - he is my first cousin 4 x removed. I have an original copy of his book and refer to it regularly to build up a deeper insight into the family through his knowledge of them. He was quite a character. I love his cutting comment that "the Hamerton's do not seem to have distinguished themselves in anything except marrying heiresses, and in that they were remarkably successful".
I am very envious that you managed to stay at Hellifield Peel before it closed. I was planning to go 2019 but when I went to book it was closed. It will be interesting to see what happens to it next. I, too, am planning a visit to the area in October to do some research and put 'faces to the names' so to speak. I also live in Hampshire (perhaps Old Hampshire!!) near Winchester. Strangely, I discovered that my Grandfather x 2 Gilbert Holden Orme Hamerton moved to Hampshire for several years and lived about 5 miles away from where I live. I love all the interesting coincidences and stories that come from this research.
Many thanks again
Penny
'I have a long list of Hamerton references, not incorporated in my website, mostly from calendars which I may post to SGM'.

John, it would be lovely to be able to access your Hamerton references. if you do decide to post could you add it to this thread as well please so I don't miss it.
Many thanks

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