Discussion:
Sir John de Eyville (d. 1325) and his wife Margaret: a conjecture
(too old to reply)
John P. Ravilious
2007-05-12 03:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Friday, 11 May, 2007



Hello All,

An interesting entry in the Patent Rolls was noted lately,
which indicates an association between William de Ros of
Ingmanthorpe (d. bef 28 May 1310) and John de Eyville, or Deiville
(d. ca. 1325) concerning unidentified lands in northern Wales,
and obligations with regard to Isabella de Beaumont, widow of
William de Vescy. This entry is dated 16 Oct., 1331:


' Oct. 16. Grant to Isabella de Bello Monte, lady of Vescy,
Westminster now tenant of certain lands in North Wales, late
of William de Ros of Igmanthorp and John Deyvill
of Athelynflet in respect of which she has been
grievously harassed by distraints made to recover
debts owing to the late king and the king by
by the said William and John, that such debts
shall not be levied during her lifetime, but that
all process shall be stayed until after death.
By K. ' [1]


This entry becomes more interesting when certain additional
pieces of information are noted.

1. William de Ros had a daughter Mary, who was prioress of
Rosedale prior to December 1306. She was identified
as the daughter of Sir William de Ros of Ingmanthorpe in
the Register of William Greenfield, Archbishop of York,
as she had recieved licence to visit her father twice a
year, dated 30 Dec. 1306 [2]. She was forced to resign
her position as prioress in September 1310; she
subsequently died before 1 Jan 1311 [3].

2. Among the nuns of Rosedale, we find Isabella Dayvill
in 1321, and Eleanor Dayvill in 1322. There clearly
was an association of the Dayvill family with this
priory, possibly connected to the position of Mary de
Ros as prioress [see [3] below].

3. William de Ros was known to have married Eustache, widow
of Nicholas de Cantelou (or Cantilupe). However, he
evidently was subsequently married to a 2nd wife, Joan,
mention of whom is found in the IPM of Reginald Fitz
Peter (extent made at Wichton, Friday, 26 July, 1286):

' Besides, William de Ros of Ingmanthorpe and Joan
his wife hold in chief in Lavynton in the county of
Lincoln one knight's fee which appertains to the
land of Wychton and Lounesborg' in the county of
York,...' [4]

4. In addition to Mary de Ros and her other sisters, there
was one Margaret de Ros, concerning whom I find the
following entry in 1310, but following which I have
no further record:

' Grant in tail by Margaret de Ros of Dyghton to Sir
William de Ros, her brother, lord of Ingmanthorp, and
Isabel his wife, of the manor of Scakelthorp, which she
had had of the grant of William and Isabel by a fine
levied in the king's court', 7 Dec 4 Edw. II (1310) '[5]


I currently conjecture that Margaret, the 2nd wife of Sir John
de Eyville (or Deiville) was the same individual as Margaret de
Ros, daughter of William de Ros of Ingmanthorpe, most likely by
his 2nd wife Joan. In addition to the providing an explanation
for the many associations noted above, this would also explain the
name Joan being given to the one known daughter of Sir John de
Eyville and his wife Margaret (this is not an element of proof
in this matter). The variance in ages and marriage dates among
the children of the elder Sir William de Ros of Ingmanthorpe may
well be explained by his issue being by more than one wife, over
an extended period of time. For example, Isabel de Ros married
Marmaduke de Thweng ca. 1273, while Jueta de Ros most likely
married Geoffrey le Scrope ca 1305/1310. Jueta de Ros was more
likely the daughter of Joan, and half-sister to Isabel (de Ros)
de Thweng.



William de Ros = 1) Eustache = 2) Joan
d before 28 I : m. bef 26 Jul
May 1310 I : 1286
________________I_______________ :...........
I I I I I :
Sir William Mary <siblings> Margaret
= Isabel de prioress = 1) (2nd wife)
Steeton of Rosedale John de Eyville
d. 1310 I = 2) Adam de
I Everingham 'Sr'
__________I I_______
I I I I
Joan Deiville <Everingham
= Sir Adam de siblings>
Everingham 'Jr'
( d. 8 Feb 1387/8)


Substantially more evidence than the foregoing is needed to
prove the conjecture. Should anyone have any additional relevant
documentation (e.g. concerning the lands in North Wales mentioned
above) or suggestions for further research, that would be most
welcome.

Cheers,

John *


NOTES

[1] CPR 5 Edw. III, Part II, p. 182, mem. 11.

[2] Reg. Greenfield, III:12, no. 1158.

[3] A History of the County of York, Volume 3 (1974): 'Houses of
Cistercians nuns: Rosedale Priory', pp. 174-76.

URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=36251

The pertinent section of this account follows:


' On 17 October 1306, (fn. 4) in consequence of a visitation,
Archbishop Greenfield issued injunctions to the prioress and
convent. Most were of the usual character, as to the due
observance of the rules of the order. Charity was to be
cultivated, corrections made in chapter without favour, the
nuns not to quarrel, the infirmary to be kept from the going
to and fro of seculars, and confessors were not to be
indiscriminately chosen by the nuns, but two brothers of the
order of Friars Minor were to be chosen, and their names
submitted to the archbishop.
On 22 August 1310 (fn. 5) Archbishop Greenfield ordered an
inquiry as to certain unspecified articles urged against the
prioress. The nuns and conversi were to be sworn and examined
privately, all secular persons being removed from their presence.
The accounts of the prioress, from the time of her administration,
as well as those of the bailiffs and other officials and servants
bound to render accounts were to be examined, and the prioress was
ordered to render to the commissioners full and complete accounts
from the time of her promotion, as well as a statement of the
then position of the house, and a further letter was sent by the
archbishop to the sub-prioress and nuns, telling them to render
an account of the house to the commissioners, as it was when the
prioress took office and as it was at the time he wrote. Evidently
the charge was one of maladministration. Whether the charges
proved against her were those of wilful wrongdoing or merely of
incompetent management, Mary de Ros resigned the office of
prioress sentiens se impotens, and on 30 September (fn. 6) the
archbishop directed the sub-prioress and convent to elect 'aliam
idoneam et honestam de vestri monasterii gremio monialem in
priorissam,' but before any election was made Mary de Ros died,
and on 1 January 1311 the king, as patron during the minority of
Thomas Wake, granted the nuns leave to elect a new
prioress. (fn. 7)
Another visitation of the house was held on Saturday,
28 September 1315, (fn. 8) as a result of which Archbishop
Greenfield issued another set of injunctions. A certified
statement, showing the credit and debit accounts of the house,
was to be sent to the archbishop before the feast of St.
Nicholas. The prioress was to see that the defects in the roof
of the cloister and other buildings were repaired, alms were
to be only given to the poor as the means of the house allowed.
An elderly nun of good fame and honest conversation was to have
charge of the cloister keys, the sick were to be duly tended,
and any nun disobedient and rebellious in receiving correction
was for each offence to receive a discipline from the president
in chapter and say the seven penitential psalms with the litany,
and if still rebellious, the archbishop would impose a more
severe penance.
The archbishop forbade all to accept presents from anybody, or
give any, except with the consent of the prioress. Under pain of
the greater excommunication no nun was to cause a girl or boy to
sleep, under any consideration, in the dormitory, and if any nun
broke this command the prioress, under pain of deposition from
office, was to signify her name to the archbishop without
delay. All nuns of the house were forbidden to wear mantles or
other garments of a colour or shade different from those
accustomed to be worn by. religious, and no unprocessed sister
was to wear the black veil.
The prioress and sub-prioress were ordered not to allow
puppies to enter the quire or church, which would impede the
service and hinder the devotion of the nuns. Those nuns who were
allowed out to visit their parents or friends were to return
within fifteen days, and no corrodies were to be granted, or
boarders, &c., received without the archbishop's special
licence.
On 17 May 1321 (fn. 9) Archbishop Melton wrote to the
Prioress and convent of Handale, that he was sending to them
Isabella Dayvill, nun of the house of Rosedale, vestri ordinis,
who, contary to the honesty of religion, had apostatized. She
was to undergo her appointed penance in their house, was to be
last in the convent, was to talk to no one, secular or religious,
and not to go out of the precincts of the monastery. Every Friday
she was to fast on bread and water, and every Wednesday to
abstain from fish, and on each of those days was to receive a
discipline in chapter from the hands of the president.
On 21 November 1322, (fn. 10) owing to the ravages of the
Scots, the monastery of Rosedale suffered so severely that the
nuns Were dispersed, and the archbishop wrote to Nunburnholme
to receive Alice de Rippinghale, to Sinningthwaite to receive
Avelina de Brus, to Thicket to receive Margaret de Langtoft,
and to Wykeham on behalf of Joan Crouel, nuns of Rosedale; and
it is noted that another nun, Eleanor Dayvill, entered the
house of Hampole, with letters from the queen. If Isabella
Dayvill was still at Handale this would account for six nuns,
and as there is no mention of the prioress it is probable that
she, and probably another nun to keep her company, were able to
remain at Rosedale. This would bring up the number to eight,
and it appears that another nun, Joan de Dalton, had been
previously sent away, for the archbishop (3 June 1323) (fn. 11)
ordered that she should be re-admitted. This would account for
nine nuns belonging to Rosedale, and that is believed to have
been the number usually forming the convent. From the date of
Joan de Dalton's re-admission it is evident that the dispersion
of the nuns did not extend beyond six months.'


[4] William Brown, ed., Yorkshire Inquisitions II:50
(No. XXXVIII).


[5] William Brown, ed., Yorks. Deeds II:160, No. 430.



* John P. Ravilious
m***@btinternet.com
2007-05-12 15:28:40 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Mai, 04:34, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
> Friday, 11 May, 2007
>
> Hello All,
>
> An interesting entry in the Patent Rolls was noted lately,
> which indicates an association between William de Ros of
> Ingmanthorpe (d. bef 28 May 1310) and John de Eyville, or Deiville
> (d. ca. 1325) concerning unidentified lands in northern Wales,
> and obligations with regard to Isabella de Beaumont, widow of
> William de Vescy. This entry is dated 16 Oct., 1331:

John

Great post! Just a small note: FWIW, according to Dugdale's Baronage,
volume I, p 94, Isabel de Beaumont married *John* de Vesci (as his
second wife).

Best wishes, Michael
m***@btinternet.com
2007-05-12 15:53:45 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Mai, 04:34, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
> Friday, 11 May, 2007
>
> Hello All,
>
> An interesting entry in the Patent Rolls was noted lately,
> which indicates an association between William de Ros of
> Ingmanthorpe (d. bef 28 May 1310) and John de Eyville, or Deiville
> (d. ca. 1325) concerning unidentified lands in northern Wales,
> and obligations with regard to Isabella de Beaumont, widow of
> William de Vescy. This entry is dated 16 Oct., 1331:
>
> ' Oct. 16. Grant to Isabella de Bello Monte, lady of Vescy,
> Westminster now tenant of certain lands in North Wales, late
> of William de Ros of Igmanthorp and John Deyvill
> of Athelynflet in respect of which she has been
> grievously harassed by distraints made to recover
> debts owing to the late king and the king by
> by the said William and John, that such debts
> shall not be levied during her lifetime, but that
> all process shall be stayed until after death.
> By K. ' [1]

John Deyvill's associations with the Vescis went back a reasonable
way, e.g.:

Cal. Pat. R, 30 August 1307: Commission on complaint of Isabella, late
the wife of John de Vesey, that John de Deyville entered the manors of
Kilburn and Thornton Othehulle, Co York, held by her of his demise for
a term of years not yet fully completed, assaulted her men and
tenants, broke her parks, and carried away her game.

Additionally, in the Cartulary of Rufford Abbey, we find that John de
Vesci granted 8 bovates of land and the manor of Rodenham, "except for
the homage of John de Dayvil in Anstan" (Dugdale's Monasticon, Vol V,
p 519). John de Vesci died in 1289.

MA-R
John P. Ravilious
2007-05-12 22:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Dear Michael,

Thanks for that. And of course you are correct re: John (vs.
William) de Vescy.

Below is what I have on this particular Sir John d'Eyville, which
may be helpful in pursuing his wife's identity. Note: the John
Deiville of Anston you mention was actually a 1st cousin of this John,
and not the same individual.

Cheers,

John


1 Sir John Deiville
----------------------------------------
Birth: aft 21 Jul 1274[1]
Death: ca 1325[2]
Father: Sir John D'Eiville (-<1291)
Mother: Maud de Mowbray (?) (->1312)

knight, of Egmanton, Notts. and Adlingfleet, Kilburn and Thornton,
co. York[2]

he was born after 21 July 1274:
Commission dated at Worcester, 21 July 1295:
' Commission to J. de Batesford and W. Haward, pleas in the Bench
ceasing at present, to take a plea of darrein presentment brought
by the prior of Newstead in Shirewode against Roger de Moubray,
keeper of the land and heir of John de Eyvill, touching the
advowson of the church of Egmanton by Tukesford, co. Nottingham. '
[CPR 23 Edw I (1292-1301), mem. 12d, p. 162[1]]

' John de Eyvill, Ralph Basset and Robert, then justices appointed
to deliver Cambridge gaol,' case of Richard Laurence, clerk in an
allegation of homicide [order of King Edward I to the treasurer
and barons of the exchequer dated at Westminster, 20 June 1297
- CPR 25 Edw I (1292-1301), mem. 13, p. 137[1]]

sold manors of Kilburn and Castle Hood to the Earl of Lancaster,
1319 for 200 marks, and the manor of Thornton to John d'Ellerker,
1322 [CP IV:133[2]]

he held Cundall and Thornton super Swale, co. Yorks. in 1284-5,
possibly indicating that his father had died by that date:
' John de Deyville appears in 1284/85 holding a major
part of both, according to Feudal Aids, vol VI, p. 104,
which gives the names of three landholders. At a fifth level of
tenancy John held 6 carucates (John Deyville-James de Norff
-Geoffrey de Neville-Ranulf de Sleys-Roger de Mowbray-the king),
the prior of Newburgh held one carucate, and Nicholas de la
Rivere held another carucate. ["THORNETON CUNDALE. - In eadem
villa sunt viij. car. terre, unde xij. car. faciunt f.m. ; de
quibus Johannes de Eyville tenet vj. car. de Jacobo de Norff,
et idem Jacobus de Galfrido de Neville, et idem Galfridus de
Ranulfo de Sleys, et idem Ranulfus de Rogerus de Moubray, et
idem Rogerus de rege; et reddit per annum ad finem predictum
iij.s : et prior de Novo Burgo tenet j. car., nomine dotis
ecclesiae sue, sed non dicitur de quo; Nicholas de la Ryver
tenet j. car. deRogero Moubray, et idem Rogerus de rege; et
reddit per annum ad finem predictum xij.d."].' [3]

' Johan de Eivill ', knight, serving with the army of King
Edward I in Scotland, fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
: his arms are recorded as
' Or a fess gules all semy de lis counterchanged '
(Falkirk Roll H104[4])

record of a suit by the Prior of Kirkham:
' 8. A.D. 1299. - The Prior of Kyrkham v. John son of John
de Eyville to keep to an agreement made between the Prior and
John de Eyville, the defendant's father (whose heir he is)
concerning the Manor of Thornton on the Hulle, less two mills
and 50 acres of wood. ' De Banco, East. 27 Edw. I. m. 25.;
Mich. 27 Edw. I. m. 129 d, 319 d. ; (1300) Hil. 28 Edw.
I. m. 179 d. ' [YAS XVII:104, No. 8[5]]

he m. 1stly Agnes,
2ndly (as 1st husband) Margaret

records concerning Sir John Deiville of Egmanton, co. Notts.,
Alexander de Ledes and his wife Elizabeth (daughter of Sir
John Deiville):

Gift dated at Thornton super Swale, 1 Feb 1316/7 :
' John de Eynill, lord of Thornton super Swale to Thomas son of
Ralph de Cundale and his wife Emma for their lives,
property: messuage with a croft, 2 bovates, 1½ ac. 1r. land
in Cundale which the said Thomas sometime held of him in
bondage Rendering 19s. 1d. yearly for all services except
suit of court of the mill at Thornton.
Witn. William the forester ("Forestar"), John Winmer ad Houel,
Richard the cook ("Coco"), of Thornton, Robert the fisher
("Piscator") of the same. Given at Thornton. ' - A2A, East
Riding of Yorkshire Archives and Records Service:
Chichester-Constable Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/4[6]


Letter of Attorney dated at Thornton super Swale, 28 Sep 1321:
' John son of Sir John de Eynill of Egmanton to William le Warener
of Cundale, property: to deliver seisin to Alexander of Ledes and
wife Elizabeth of a place of land and wood called Lytelapelgath
and of 2 ac. adjacent land to the N. in Cundale, with power to
enclose
Given at Thorneton super Swale. ' - A2A, East Riding of
Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable
Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/5[6]


Gift dated at Cundall, co. Yorks., 14 Oct 1321:
' John son of Sir John de Eynill lord of Egmanton to Alexander
de Ledes and wife Elizabeth, property: all his town of Cundale
near Thornton super Swale and all appurtenances in demesne as
far as the boundary between Cundale and Thornton called Heggebeck
Witn. Sir John Marmion, Sir John de Walkyngham, Sir Robert
Coyners, Sir Robert de Plompton, Sir Richard de Bernyngham,
Sir Robert de Waddeslay, Sir William Darell, William de Eskelby,
William de Cundale, Warner, John de Wynnemer, John de Mauneby,
Robert le Fissher.
Given at Cundale, [ Seal, armorial on a fess between
4 fleurs-de-lys, 2 fleurs-de-lys ] - A2A, East Riding of
Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable
Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/6[6]


Demise dated 12 Mar. 1321/2
' Alexander de Ledes and wife Elizabeth to Sir John de Eynill,
lord of Egmanton, for his wife, property: all their town of
Cundale near Thorneton super Swale Rendering 1d yearly.
Given at Cundale
Witn. Sir John Marmyun, Sir John de Walkyngham, Sir Robert
Coyners, Sir Robert de Plumton, Sir Richard de Bernyngham, Sir
Robert de Waddeslay, William de Eskelby, William de Cundale
Warener, John de Wymmer, John de Manneby, Robert le Fissher. '
[Seal, armorial, on a fess between four fleurs-de-lys, two
fleurs-de-lys.] - A2A, East Riding of Yorkshire Archives
and Records Service: Chichester-Constable Family
[DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/7[6]

he sold his manor of Thornton on the Hill in 1322, as noted in
CP IV (later confirmed by his son Robert):
"Westminster. Quindene of Easter, 15 Edw II, 1322
John de Ellerker, senior, quer., John de Eyvill of Egmanton,
def., of the manor of Thornton on the Hill and two mills in
Baxby: and after the death of John de Eyvill--- [the rest
left blank]
Octave of Michaelmas, 5 Edw III, 1331
John de Ellerker, quer., Robert, son and heir of John de Eyville,
def. of the same property: To hold to Ellerker and his heirs,
subject to the life estate which Isabel widow of John de Vescy
has by demise from John de Eyvill. Ellerker gave £100. Isabel
was present and consenting, and did fealty."
[W. Pailey Baildon, 'Feet of Fines for the County of York from
1327-1347'. Wakefield: The Yorks. Archaeological Society, 1910.
p.37]

____________________________________

posthumous reference to his debts, in a record dated 16 Oct 1331:
' Oct. 16. Grant to Isabella de Bello Monte, lady of
Vescy,
Westminster now tenant of certain lands in North Wales, late
of William de Ros of Igmanthorp and John Deyvill
of Athelynflet in respect of which she has been
grievously harassed by distraints made to recover
debts owing to the late king and the king by
by the said William and John, that such debts
shall not be levied during her lifetime, but that
all process shall be stayed until after death.
By K. ' [CPR 5 Edw. III, Part II, p. 182, mem. 11[8]]


cf. CP IV:132-133[2]



Spouse: Margaret[2]
Death: bef 8 May 1341[2]
Marr: bef 12 Mar 1321, date of demise, Cundall, co. Yorks.[9],[6]

Children: Joan (<1324-ca1378)

Other Spouses Agnes



1. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record
Office, Edward I. A.D. 1292-1301, London: for the Public Record
Office.
2. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
3. Rosie Bevan, "CP Addition: Margaret, wife of (1) Sir John
Deiville and (2) Adam de Everingham," 26 September 2004,
email ***@paradise.net.nz, cites Feudal Aids, vol VI,
p. 104; W. Pailey Baildon, 'Feet of Fines for the County of
York from 1327-1347'.
4. Brian Timms, "The Falkirk Roll," an occasional roll of arms
of those having fought at the Battle of Falkirk, July 1298,
http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/falkirkH.html
This is an occasional roll, listing those present at the
battle of Falkirk, which was fought on 22 July 1298,, when
the forces of Edward I defeated a Scottish army under William
Wallace., It is accepted that the roll was composed shortly
afterwards., The original blazon is in the Anglo-Norman
dialect, from a copy of the roll made by Robert Glover,
c1585., The source of this blazon is Gerard J Brault, Rolls
of Arms of Edward I, Society of Antiquaries, London, 1996.
5. William Paley Baildon, F.S.A., "Notes on the Religious and
Secular Houses of Yorkshire, Vol. I," The Yorkshire
Archaeological Society Record Series, Vol. XVII, Printed for
the Society, 1894.
6. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
7. "The National Archives," URL
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
various extracts.
8. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public
Record Office, Edward III. A.D. 1330-1334, London: for
the Public Record Office.


On May 12, 11:53 am, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
> On 12 Mai, 04:34, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Friday, 11 May, 2007
>
> > Hello All,
>
> > An interesting entry in the Patent Rolls was noted lately,
> > which indicates an association between William de Ros of
> > Ingmanthorpe (d. bef 28 May 1310) and John de Eyville, or Deiville
> > (d. ca. 1325) concerning unidentified lands in northern Wales,
> > and obligations with regard to Isabella de Beaumont, widow of
> > William de Vescy. This entry is dated 16 Oct., 1331:
>
> > ' Oct. 16. Grant to Isabella de Bello Monte, lady of Vescy,
> > Westminster now tenant of certain lands in North Wales, late
> > of William de Ros of Igmanthorp and John Deyvill
> > of Athelynflet in respect of which she has been
> > grievously harassed by distraints made to recover
> > debts owing to the late king and the king by
> > by the said William and John, that such debts
> > shall not be levied during her lifetime, but that
> > all process shall be stayed until after death.
> > By K. ' [1]
>
> John Deyvill's associations with the Vescis went back a reasonable
> way, e.g.:
>
> Cal. Pat. R, 30 August 1307: Commission on complaint of Isabella, late
> the wife of John de Vesey, that John de Deyville entered the manors of
> Kilburn and Thornton Othehulle, Co York, held by her of his demise for
> a term of years not yet fully completed, assaulted her men and
> tenants, broke her parks, and carried away her game.
>
> Additionally, in the Cartulary of Rufford Abbey, we find that John de
> Vesci granted 8 bovates of land and the manor of Rodenham, "except for
> the homage of John de Dayvil in Anstan" (Dugdale's Monasticon, Vol V,
> p 519). John de Vesci died in 1289.
>
> MA-R- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
m***@btinternet.com
2007-05-12 23:09:16 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Mai, 23:49, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
> Dear Michael,
>
> Thanks for that. And of course you are correct re: John (vs.
> William) de Vescy.
>
> Below is what I have on this particular Sir John d'Eyville, which
> may be helpful in pursuing his wife's identity. Note: the John
> Deiville of Anston you mention was actually a 1st cousin of this John,
> and not the same individual.

Thanks, John - very interesting. I'll keep my thinking cap on. I had
a look at Dugdale's, but he doesn't list the Deyvilles as they
apparently didn't sustain their original summons to the Lords (and
were thus beyond the scope of his Baronage).

Best wishes, Michael
John P. Ravilious
2007-05-12 23:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Dear Michael, et al.,

A gaffe I noted in my earlier post; I had intended the following
to read that Sir John d'Eiville's mother Maud was conjectured to have
been a Mowbray (noted in prior posts to SGM).


1 Sir John Deiville
----------------------------------------
Birth: aft 21 Jul 1274[1]
Death: ca 1325[2]
Father: Sir John D'Eiville (-<1291)
Mother: Maud [CONJECTURED SURNAME: de Mowbray ] (->1312)


She was the widow of the younger James de Audley (d. bef 16 Jan
1273/4), but her surname has not been ascertained to date.

Cheers,

John






On May 12, 6:49 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
> Dear Michael,
>
> Thanks for that. And of course you are correct re: John (vs.
> William) de Vescy.
>
> Below is what I have on this particular Sir John d'Eyville, which
> may be helpful in pursuing his wife's identity. Note: the John
> Deiville of Anston you mention was actually a 1st cousin of this John,
> and not the same individual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> 1 Sir John Deiville
> ----------------------------------------
> Birth: aft 21 Jul 1274[1]
> Death: ca 1325[2]
> Father: Sir John D'Eiville (-<1291)
> Mother: Maud de Mowbray (?) (->1312)
>
> knight, of Egmanton, Notts. and Adlingfleet, Kilburn and Thornton,
> co. York[2]
>
> he was born after 21 July 1274:
> Commission dated at Worcester, 21 July 1295:
> ' Commission to J. de Batesford and W. Haward, pleas in the Bench
> ceasing at present, to take a plea of darrein presentment brought
> by the prior of Newstead in Shirewode against Roger de Moubray,
> keeper of the land and heir of John de Eyvill, touching the
> advowson of the church of Egmanton by Tukesford, co. Nottingham. '
> [CPR 23 Edw I (1292-1301), mem. 12d, p. 162[1]]
>
> ' John de Eyvill, Ralph Basset and Robert, then justices appointed
> to deliver Cambridge gaol,' case of Richard Laurence, clerk in an
> allegation of homicide [order of King Edward I to the treasurer
> and barons of the exchequer dated at Westminster, 20 June 1297
> - CPR 25 Edw I (1292-1301), mem. 13, p. 137[1]]
>
> sold manors of Kilburn and Castle Hood to the Earl of Lancaster,
> 1319 for 200 marks, and the manor of Thornton to John d'Ellerker,
> 1322 [CP IV:133[2]]
>
> he held Cundall and Thornton super Swale, co. Yorks. in 1284-5,
> possibly indicating that his father had died by that date:
> ' John de Deyville appears in 1284/85 holding a major
> part of both, according to Feudal Aids, vol VI, p. 104,
> which gives the names of three landholders. At a fifth level of
> tenancy John held 6 carucates (John Deyville-James de Norff
> -Geoffrey de Neville-Ranulf de Sleys-Roger de Mowbray-the king),
> the prior of Newburgh held one carucate, and Nicholas de la
> Rivere held another carucate. ["THORNETON CUNDALE. - In eadem
> villa sunt viij. car. terre, unde xij. car. faciunt f.m. ; de
> quibus Johannes de Eyville tenet vj. car. de Jacobo de Norff,
> et idem Jacobus de Galfrido de Neville, et idem Galfridus de
> Ranulfo de Sleys, et idem Ranulfus de Rogerus de Moubray, et
> idem Rogerus de rege; et reddit per annum ad finem predictum
> iij.s : et prior de Novo Burgo tenet j. car., nomine dotis
> ecclesiae sue, sed non dicitur de quo; Nicholas de la Ryver
> tenet j. car. deRogero Moubray, et idem Rogerus de rege; et
> reddit per annum ad finem predictum xij.d."].' [3]
>
> ' Johan de Eivill ', knight, serving with the army of King
> Edward I in Scotland, fought at the Battle of Falkirk, 22 July 1298
> : his arms are recorded as
> ' Or a fess gules all semy de lis counterchanged '
> (Falkirk Roll H104[4])
>
> record of a suit by the Prior of Kirkham:
> ' 8. A.D. 1299. - The Prior of Kyrkham v. John son of John
> de Eyville to keep to an agreement made between the Prior and
> John de Eyville, the defendant's father (whose heir he is)
> concerning the Manor of Thornton on the Hulle, less two mills
> and 50 acres of wood. ' De Banco, East. 27 Edw. I. m. 25.;
> Mich. 27 Edw. I. m. 129 d, 319 d. ; (1300) Hil. 28 Edw.
> I. m. 179 d. ' [YAS XVII:104, No. 8[5]]
>
> he m. 1stly Agnes,
> 2ndly (as 1st husband) Margaret
>
> records concerning Sir John Deiville of Egmanton, co. Notts.,
> Alexander de Ledes and his wife Elizabeth (daughter of Sir
> John Deiville):
>
> Gift dated at Thornton super Swale, 1 Feb 1316/7 :
> ' John de Eynill, lord of Thornton super Swale to Thomas son of
> Ralph de Cundale and his wife Emma for their lives,
> property: messuage with a croft, 2 bovates, 1½ ac. 1r. land
> in Cundale which the said Thomas sometime held of him in
> bondage Rendering 19s. 1d. yearly for all services except
> suit of court of the mill at Thornton.
> Witn. William the forester ("Forestar"), John Winmer ad Houel,
> Richard the cook ("Coco"), of Thornton, Robert the fisher
> ("Piscator") of the same. Given at Thornton. ' - A2A, East
> Riding of Yorkshire Archives and Records Service:
> Chichester-Constable Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/4[6]
>
> Letter of Attorney dated at Thornton super Swale, 28 Sep 1321:
> ' John son of Sir John de Eynill of Egmanton to William le Warener
> of Cundale, property: to deliver seisin to Alexander of Ledes and
> wife Elizabeth of a place of land and wood called Lytelapelgath
> and of 2 ac. adjacent land to the N. in Cundale, with power to
> enclose
> Given at Thorneton super Swale. ' - A2A, East Riding of
> Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable
> Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/5[6]
>
> Gift dated at Cundall, co. Yorks., 14 Oct 1321:
> ' John son of Sir John de Eynill lord of Egmanton to Alexander
> de Ledes and wife Elizabeth, property: all his town of Cundale
> near Thornton super Swale and all appurtenances in demesne as
> far as the boundary between Cundale and Thornton called Heggebeck
> Witn. Sir John Marmion, Sir John de Walkyngham, Sir Robert
> Coyners, Sir Robert de Plompton, Sir Richard de Bernyngham,
> Sir Robert de Waddeslay, Sir William Darell, William de Eskelby,
> William de Cundale, Warner, John de Wynnemer, John de Mauneby,
> Robert le Fissher.
> Given at Cundale, [ Seal, armorial on a fess between
> 4 fleurs-de-lys, 2 fleurs-de-lys ] - A2A, East Riding of
> Yorkshire Archives and Records Service: Chichester-Constable
> Family [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/6[6]
>
> Demise dated 12 Mar. 1321/2
> ' Alexander de Ledes and wife Elizabeth to Sir John de Eynill,
> lord of Egmanton, for his wife, property: all their town of
> Cundale near Thorneton super Swale Rendering 1d yearly.
> Given at Cundale
> Witn. Sir John Marmyun, Sir John de Walkyngham, Sir Robert
> Coyners, Sir Robert de Plumton, Sir Richard de Bernyngham, Sir
> Robert de Waddeslay, William de Eskelby, William de Cundale
> Warener, John de Wymmer, John de Manneby, Robert le Fissher. '
> [Seal, armorial, on a fess between four fleurs-de-lys, two
> fleurs-de-lys.] - A2A, East Riding of Yorkshire Archives
> and Records Service: Chichester-Constable Family
> [DDCC/111 - DDCC/135], DDCC/130/7[6]
>
> he sold his manor of Thornton on the Hill in 1322, as noted in
> CP IV (later confirmed by his son Robert):
> "Westminster. Quindene of Easter, 15 Edw II, 1322
> John de Ellerker, senior, quer., John de Eyvill of Egmanton,
> def., of the manor of Thornton on the Hill and two mills in
> Baxby: and after the death of John de Eyvill--- [the rest
> left blank]
> Octave of Michaelmas, 5 Edw III, 1331
> John de Ellerker, quer., Robert, son and heir of John de Eyville,
> def. of the same property: To hold to Ellerker and his heirs,
> subject to the life estate which Isabel widow of John de Vescy
> has by demise from John de Eyvill. Ellerker gave £100. Isabel
> was present and consenting, and did fealty."
> [W. Pailey Baildon, 'Feet of Fines for the County of York from
> 1327-1347'. Wakefield: The Yorks. Archaeological Society, 1910.
> p.37]
>
> ____________________________________
>
> posthumous reference to his debts, in a record dated 16 Oct 1331:
> ' Oct. 16. Grant to Isabella de Bello Monte, lady of
> Vescy,
> Westminster now tenant of certain lands in North Wales, late
> of William de Ros of Igmanthorp and John Deyvill
> of Athelynflet in respect of which she has been
> grievously harassed by distraints made to recover
> debts owing to the late king and the king by
> by the said William and John, that such debts
> shall not be levied during her lifetime, but that
> all process shall be stayed until after death.
> By K. ' [CPR 5 Edw. III, Part II, p. 182, mem. 11[8]]
>
> cf. CP IV:132-133[2]
>
> Spouse: Margaret[2]
> Death: bef 8 May 1341[2]
> Marr: bef 12 Mar 1321, date of demise, Cundall, co. Yorks.[9],[6]
>
> Children: Joan (<1324-ca1378)
>
> Other Spouses Agnes
>
> 1. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record
> Office, Edward I. A.D. 1292-1301, London: for the Public Record
> Office.
> 2. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
> 1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
> Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
> 3. Rosie Bevan, "CP Addition: Margaret, wife of (1) Sir John
> Deiville and (2) Adam de Everingham," 26 September 2004,
> email ***@paradise.net.nz, cites Feudal Aids, vol VI,
> p. 104; W. Pailey Baildon, 'Feet of Fines for the County of
> York from 1327-1347'.
> 4. Brian Timms, "The Falkirk Roll," an occasional roll of arms
> of those having fought at the Battle of Falkirk, July 1298,
> http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/falkirkH.html
> This is an occasional roll, listing those present at the
> battle of Falkirk, which was fought on 22 July 1298,, when
> the forces of Edward I defeated a Scottish army under William
> Wallace., It is accepted that the roll was composed shortly
> afterwards., The original blazon is in the Anglo-Norman
> dialect, from a copy of the roll made by Robert Glover,
> c1585., The source of this blazon is Gerard J Brault, Rolls
> of Arms of Edward I, Society of Antiquaries, London, 1996.
> 5. William Paley Baildon, F.S.A., "Notes on the Religious and
> Secular Houses of Yorkshire, Vol. I," The Yorkshire
> Archaeological Society Record Series, Vol. XVII, Printed for
> the Society, 1894.
> 6. "Access to Archives,"http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
> 7. "The National Archives," URL
> http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
> various extracts.
> 8. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public
> Record Office, Edward III. A.D. 1330-1334, London: for
> the Public Record Office.
>
> On May 12, 11:53 am, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 12 Mai, 04:34, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Friday, 11 May, 2007
>
> > > Hello All,
>
> > > An interesting entry in the Patent- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
WJhonson
2007-05-15 01:31:30 UTC
Permalink
A few things I noticed. In your discussion you post a document which states that Robert is "son and heir" of John Deiville, but then you don't add Robert in your summary of the children of John where you only show Joan.

Since John Deiville married Margaret after 14 Oct 1321 but before 12 Mar 1322 (or 1321/2 if you prefer) and since this Robert is acting as an adult by 1331, can we surmise that this Robert must be a son by John's first wife Agnes?

Thanks
Will Johnson
m***@btinternet.com
2007-05-12 23:22:49 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Mai, 04:34, "John P. Ravilious" <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> 4. In addition to Mary de Ros and her other sisters, there
> was one Margaret de Ros, concerning whom I find the
> following entry in 1310, but following which I have
> no further record:
>
> ' Grant in tail by Margaret de Ros of Dyghton to Sir
> William de Ros, her brother, lord of Ingmanthorp, and
> Isabel his wife, of the manor of Scakelthorp, which she
> had had of the grant of William and Isabel by a fine
> levied in the king's court', 7 Dec 4 Edw. II (1310) '[5]
>

A2A shows this, dated 17 February 1312:

>From William de Burton Amyas, chaplain, to Sir William Ros of
Ingmanthorp and Isabel his wife and their heirs male of all lands etc.
which Margaret de Ros holds of him for life by the assignment of Sir
William in North Deighton, remainder to the right heirs of William.
(WYL230/44)

and this, dated 29 June 1318:

>From Robert son and heir of Robert Botelere of North Deighton to
Geoffrey his brother of his garden called Benegath next the bakehouse,
a rood of land in the south field between Joyce (? Jocii) de
Billingburgh's land and Margaret de Ros's land, and a rood of land in
the place called Suthdale between Joyce's land and John de Dighton's.
(WYL230/47(10))

and this, dated 4 July 1333:

>From William de Ros of Ingmanthorpe to John de Bekyngham of Reedness
of 1 messuage, 1 toft, 3 bovates, and 2 acres in North Deighton, viz.
all the lands which Thomas de Griselay and afterwards Margaret,
William's sister, held. (WYL230/55)

This last may suggest that Margaret de Ros's holding in Deighton for
life only, or that she died without issue.

The documents are from the Ingilby papers at the West Yorkshire
Archives.

Cheers, Michael
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