Discussion:
Pronunciation of 'de Bohun'
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g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
2005-07-08 23:18:47 UTC
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I have heard a number of ways of pronouncing 'Bohun' including 'boon'
and 'bowen'. Today, I happened to meet a French lady from Normandy who
was running a market stall. I wrote the words 'de Bohun' on my
newspaper and asked her how they pronounced this in Normandy. She said
'de bo-hun' with the 'bo' pronounced 'bow' and the 'hun' prounounced as
in 'Hun'.
Todd A. Farmerie
2005-07-08 23:38:19 UTC
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Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
I have heard a number of ways of pronouncing 'Bohun' including 'boon'
and 'bowen'. Today, I happened to meet a French lady from Normandy who
was running a market stall. I wrote the words 'de Bohun' on my
newspaper and asked her how they pronounced this in Normandy. She said
'de bo-hun' with the 'bo' pronounced 'bow' and the 'hun' prounounced as
in 'Hun'.
Unfortunately, the question is not so simple as this. It is likely that
a modern Frenchwoman and a modern Englishman would give you different
answers, both of which would differ from the answer you would get from a
12th century Anglo-Norman baron.

taf
g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
2005-07-09 10:35:43 UTC
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The lady I spoke to was 800 years old, as were some of her dried
figs....
Tony Hoskins
2005-07-08 23:52:44 UTC
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If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been prounounced "moon", so
therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
I have heard a number of ways of pronouncing 'Bohun' including
'boon'
Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
and 'bowen'. Today, I happened to meet a French lady from Normandy
who
Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
was running a market stall. I wrote the words 'de Bohun' on my
newspaper and asked her how they pronounced this in Normandy. She
said
Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
'de bo-hun' with the 'bo' pronounced 'bow' and the 'hun' prounounced
as
Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
in 'Hun'.
Unfortunately, the question is not so simple as this. It is likely
that
a modern Frenchwoman and a modern Englishman would give you different
answers, both of which would differ from the answer you would get from
a
12th century Anglo-Norman baron.

taf
D. Spencer Hines
2005-07-09 00:55:52 UTC
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Bingo!

SOME folks definitely pronounce BOHUN as BOONE [BOON].

DSH

""Tony Hoskins"" <***@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote in message news:***@CENTRAL_SVR2...

| If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced "moon",
| so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
norenxaq
2005-07-09 00:49:07 UTC
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Post by D. Spencer Hines
| If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced "moon",
| so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
which leads me to wonder if this pronunciation is a major part of the
claim by some of Daniel Boone's descendants of a de Bohun ancestry
D. Spencer Hines
2005-07-09 03:23:38 UTC
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Yep... <G>

DSH

"norenxaq" <***@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:***@san.rr.com...

| > ""Tony Hoskins"" <***@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote in message
| > news:***@CENTRAL_SVR2...
| >
| > | If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced
"moon",
| > | so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
|
| which leads me to wonder if this pronunciation is a major part of the
| claim by some of Daniel Boone's descendants of a de Bohun ancestry
m***@gmail.com
2013-09-28 23:04:54 UTC
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Post by norenxaq
Post by D. Spencer Hines
| If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced "moon",
| so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
which leads me to wonder if this pronunciation is a major part of the
claim by some of Daniel Boone's descendants of a de Bohun ancestry
All American Boones are descendants of Ralph de Bohun. Second son of Humphrey "The Surety" de Bohun. Ralph (pronounced "Rafe" was born in England in the 1200's a.d.
David Teague
2005-07-09 03:25:30 UTC
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FWIW, I was enrolled in the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of
York twenty years ago, and the only pronunciation for "de Bohun" I ever
heard there was "de boon" -- and that from the Brits. We Americans, by and
large, had no idea how to pronounce it.


David Teague
of 'de Bohun' Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:49:05 -0700
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by D. Spencer Hines
| If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced "moon",
| so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
which leads me to wonder if this pronunciation is a major part of the
claim by some of Daniel Boone's descendants of a de Bohun ancestry
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com
2005-07-09 10:01:09 UTC
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Dear David ~

The Bohun surname is often spelled Boun in medieval records.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net
Post by David Teague
FWIW, I was enrolled in the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of
York twenty years ago, and the only pronunciation for "de Bohun" I ever
heard there was "de boon" -- and that from the Brits. We Americans, by and
large, had no idea how to pronounce it.
David Teague
of 'de Bohun' Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:49:05 -0700
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by D. Spencer Hines
| If, as some have claimed, "Mohun" could have been pronounced "moon",
| so therefore "Bohun", "boon"?
which leads me to wonder if this pronunciation is a major part of the
claim by some of Daniel Boone's descendants of a de Bohun ancestry
l***@gmail.com
2019-12-31 23:18:27 UTC
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Thank you for your info posted here many years ago. I’m a direct ancestor of Henry de Bohun, but had no idea how to pronounce the name. Another American ancestor of mine, in the same family many centuries down, wrote the autobiography of Daniel Boone with him. He was a Kentucky congressman and lawyer. Who knew they were probably ancestral cousins ?
P J Evans
2020-01-01 01:18:53 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
Thank you for your info posted here many years ago. I’m a direct ancestor of Henry de Bohun, but had no idea how to pronounce the name. Another American ancestor of mine, in the same family many centuries down, wrote the autobiography of Daniel Boone with him. He was a Kentucky congressman and lawyer. Who knew they were probably ancestral cousins ?
Some American Boone/Boon families started out as Swedish Bonde families.
j***@gmail.com
2020-01-01 18:21:41 UTC
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Post by P J Evans
Post by l***@gmail.com
Thank you for your info posted here many years ago. I’m a direct ancestor of Henry de Bohun, but had no idea how to pronounce the name. Another American ancestor of mine, in the same family many centuries down, wrote the autobiography of Daniel Boone with him. He was a Kentucky congressman and lawyer. Who knew they were probably ancestral cousins ?
Some American Boone/Boon families started out as Swedish Bonde families.
I have no idea how Bohun was pronounced in England in the early 1400s, but we can be pretty sure modern French pronunciations give little insight.

For example, who would have guessed that "Beauchamp" in England was/is pronounced "Beecham" ?

Hey, here's a list of counter-intuitive UK name pronunciations, and Bohun is on the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_in_English_with_counterintuitive_pronunciations

Of course, these modern 20th century pronunciations are probably still different than the 1400s pronunciations...

The best evidence you can find is to look at the list of all the spelling variations of the name at the time.

--Joe Cook
P***@aol.com
2013-09-29 09:20:31 UTC
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Is this the received pronunciation?

Surely it would depend on the clerks/scribes of the time as to how it was
spelled and to the area as to how it was pronounced? ...and the received
'wisdom' of the age as well as the socio-economic background of the person
uttering the name ; Hence Menzies pronounced Mingis, Walpole pronounced
Wahpool, Featherstonhaugh, pronounced Fanshawe - this is how I was brought up to
pronounce these names, among many others.

Pg
Hovite
2013-09-29 15:24:06 UTC
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Post by P***@aol.com
Hence Menzies pronounced Mingis
According to D. P. Menzies (The Red and White Book of Menzies: The History of Clan Menzies and Its Chiefs, 1894), the family descends from Mannus, second son of King Fergus, 333 BC.

Alternatively, the family was originally de Meyners, and became Manners in England.

There is no zed in Menzies; the fourth letter is yogh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4595228.stm
steven perkins
2013-09-30 00:28:30 UTC
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The Boone Society has expended money in researching the ancestry of Daniel
Boone's family in Devonshire and they have found no connection to the
DeBohun family.

See,
http://boonesociety.org/boonegenealogy/Boone%201st%205%20Gens%20Update%20August,%202012.pdf

There is a new theory that they descend form a French immigrant to England,
see,
http://www.lulu.com/shop/jim-white/boone-family-immigrants-to-america/hardcover/product-5174613.html
click
on the Preview link for an introduction.

Stewart Baldwin's(1) article, serialized in The Genealogist, volume 15
(2001) pp.104–28, 172–95; 16 (2002): pp.71–92, 234–54, on Edward Morgan may
also be of interest, as well as his web page:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/e_morgan.htm

Please note that Mary Wilcoxon, daughter of Sarah Boone and John Wilcoxon,
married Renelder Walker, NC Marriage Bond dated 11/27/1778 Wilkes Co., NC.
Sarah Boone was the elder sister of Daniel Boone, daughter of Squire Boone
and Sarah Morgan .

Regards,

Steven

(1) http://fasg.org/fellows/current-fellows/stewart-baldwin/
Post by Hovite
Post by P***@aol.com
Hence Menzies pronounced Mingis
According to D. P. Menzies (The Red and White Book of Menzies: The History
of Clan Menzies and Its Chiefs, 1894), the family descends from Mannus,
second son of King Fergus, 333 BC.
Alternatively, the family was originally de Meyners, and became Manners in England.
There is no zed in Menzies; the fourth letter is yogh.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4595228.stm
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a***@gmail.com
2013-09-30 01:30:46 UTC
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Post by g***@gmilne.demon.co.uk
I have heard a number of ways of pronouncing 'Bohun' including 'boon'
and 'bowen'. Today, I happened to meet a French lady from Normandy who
was running a market stall. I wrote the words 'de Bohun' on my
newspaper and asked her how they pronounced this in Normandy. She said
'de bo-hun' with the 'bo' pronounced 'bow' and the 'hun' prounounced as
in 'Hun'.
did she actually pronounce the "h" as in "ha"? admittedly I only lived in france three years but when I see that name in my head I hear "de" -- bo --- un [the "un" being the guttural French sound -- i'm not sure how to write it out phonetically.. but I'm a bit surprised that they would pronounce the "h." I can ask some of my French friends in paris next time I call them. but certainly the English do not pronounce many norman names the way they would be in French just look at beaulieu abbey and hurstmonceux and beauchamp... they're not pronounced in England like a French person would...

ABB
P***@aol.com
2013-09-30 07:50:30 UTC
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My first language being French I can say quite categorically that were I to
see the name BOHUN for the first time, I would pronounce it Beau/Bo
followed by the very separate sound of Hun, with a silent H and pronounced 'un'
as in one (1) in French.

Then again Norman French pronunciation was quite different from middle
English let alone modern English, and it varied depending on one's own
dialect/language.

Pg
Matt Tompkins
2013-09-30 11:12:38 UTC
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Post by P***@aol.com
My first language being French I can say quite categorically that were I to
see the name BOHUN for the first time, I would pronounce it Beau/Bo
followed by the very separate sound of Hun, with a silent H and
pronounced 'un' as in one (1) in French.
Then again Norman French pronunciation was quite different from middle
English let alone modern English, and it varied depending on one's own
dialect/language.
The most common variant spelling of the surname Bohun in medieval English records is Boun - it may even be more common than Bohun itself. This doesn't entirely prove that it was pronounced as a single syllable, or if it was, exactly how the central vowel was pronounced, but some of the other spellings one occasionally comes across, such as Bown, do suggest that it was pronounced Bone.

I think it's likely that the name arrived in England as a two-syllable name - it derived from Bohon in France and there are enough early English spellings like Bowhun and Bohoun to confirm that - but changed to a single-syllable name pronounced Bone, in some places and branches of the family at least. It later changed again, to Boon, again in at least some places and families.

This is the thesis advanced by Reaney and Wilson's Dictionary Of English Surnames, which links the modern names Boon, Boone, Bone, Bown and Bowne, giving all the same origin in Bohon, and mentions Bohun's Hall in Essex, which was recorded as Boneshall in 1540 and Bowneshall in 1604, and is presently pronounced Boon's Hall (according to Place-names of Essex).

Matt Tompkins
d***@gmail.com
2020-01-03 08:12:58 UTC
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Post by Matt Tompkins
Post by P***@aol.com
My first language being French I can say quite categorically that were I to
see the name BOHUN for the first time, I would pronounce it Beau/Bo
followed by the very separate sound of Hun, with a silent H and
pronounced 'un' as in one (1) in French.
Then again Norman French pronunciation was quite different from middle
English let alone modern English, and it varied depending on one's own
dialect/language.
The most common variant spelling of the surname Bohun in medieval English records is Boun - it may even be more common than Bohun itself. This doesn't entirely prove that it was pronounced as a single syllable, or if it was, exactly how the central vowel was pronounced, but some of the other spellings one occasionally comes across, such as Bown, do suggest that it was pronounced Bone.
I think it's likely that the name arrived in England as a two-syllable name - it derived from Bohon in France and there are enough early English spellings like Bowhun and Bohoun to confirm that - but changed to a single-syllable name pronounced Bone, in some places and branches of the family at least. It later changed again, to Boon, again in at least some places and families.
This is the thesis advanced by Reaney and Wilson's Dictionary Of English Surnames, which links the modern names Boon, Boone, Bone, Bown and Bowne, giving all the same origin in Bohon, and mentions Bohun's Hall in Essex, which was recorded as Boneshall in 1540 and Bowneshall in 1604, and is presently pronounced Boon's Hall (according to Place-names of Essex).
Matt Tompkins
This gets me wondering if the name may have been originally pronounced "boo-un" and then got contracted over the years to "boon".

Mark
Peter Stewart
2020-01-03 11:33:57 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Matt Tompkins
Post by P***@aol.com
My first language being French I can say quite categorically that were I to
see the name BOHUN for the first time, I would pronounce it Beau/Bo
followed by the very separate sound of Hun, with a silent H and
pronounced 'un' as in one (1) in French.
Then again Norman French pronunciation was quite different from middle
English let alone modern English, and it varied depending on one's own
dialect/language.
The most common variant spelling of the surname Bohun in medieval English records is Boun - it may even be more common than Bohun itself. This doesn't entirely prove that it was pronounced as a single syllable, or if it was, exactly how the central vowel was pronounced, but some of the other spellings one occasionally comes across, such as Bown, do suggest that it was pronounced Bone.
I think it's likely that the name arrived in England as a two-syllable name - it derived from Bohon in France and there are enough early English spellings like Bowhun and Bohoun to confirm that - but changed to a single-syllable name pronounced Bone, in some places and branches of the family at least. It later changed again, to Boon, again in at least some places and families.
This is the thesis advanced by Reaney and Wilson's Dictionary Of English Surnames, which links the modern names Boon, Boone, Bone, Bown and Bowne, giving all the same origin in Bohon, and mentions Bohun's Hall in Essex, which was recorded as Boneshall in 1540 and Bowneshall in 1604, and is presently pronounced Boon's Hall (according to Place-names of Essex).
Matt Tompkins
This gets me wondering if the name may have been originally pronounced "boo-un" and then got contracted over the years to "boon".
As Matt said, it's likely that the name arrived in England with two
syllables, but it's perhaps at bit futile trying to work out how each of
these syllables sounded: for starters, it's misleading to suppose that
the modern pronunciation of "boo" in a standard accent (if such a thing
exists) must correspond to how this would have been enunciated by any
English speakers before the "great" vowel shift of the 15th century. The
best guide is probably to imagine the sounds in a West-country or even a
caricature "Long John Silver" accent, but bear in mind that these are at
best just rough approximations.

Peter Stewart
s***@gmail.com
2020-03-27 23:16:23 UTC
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In researching the family name of Bound, I found it came from de Bohun, and could be related to Boone, Bond, Bone and many other spellings. At a Scottish festival I found out what the tartan pattern looks like, was told it was a very ancient pattern. Further discovered it comes from the Tribe of Mar.

There is a Bound Brook in New Jersey. Wish I was close enough to visit cemeteries there.
r***@gmail.com
2020-03-29 18:17:35 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
In researching the family name of Bound, I found it came from de Bohun, and could be related to Boone, Bond, Bone and many other spellings. At a Scottish festival I found out what the tartan pattern looks like, was told it was a very ancient pattern. Further discovered it comes from the Tribe of Mar.
There is a Bound Brook in New Jersey. Wish I was close enough to visit cemeteries there.
A few comments:

1. Bound Brook is a little waterway and borough in Somerset County, New Jersey. It is named because it formed a land boundary resulting from a treaty between English settlers and Native Americans. There is no Bound family connected to it.

2. Beware of Highland Games as a source of family information. There are serious genealogists and historians out there, but there are more people interested in the social aspects of their heritage. I was very involved in the Grandfather Mountain Games for a number of years, and speak from experience.

3. A look in George Black's well-respected "Surnames of Scotland" (available to borrow on archive.org) shows his research did not find Bound as a surname in Scotland. The names you mention - Bound, Bohun, Boone - are all English in origin generally. But in every case, Americans can really only determine national origin by tracing the family in question. A lot of changes happened among immigrants, and Anglo-sounding names were often adopted by people of other European ancestry.

4. The present world of Scottish tartans is almost entirely a creation of the early 19th century. Prior to then, there were distinct tartans in different districts, but not all these specific surname-tied patterns. Wikipedia has a quite excellent article on the subject, and I refer you to it for more details. Having said that there are really no "ancient" clan tartans, I will say that, in the Scottish diaspora following Culloden and the Clearances, the tartans have served as a valuable symbol for Scots interested in their heritage.

Good luck in your research!
taf
2020-03-29 20:00:03 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
In researching the family name of Bound, I found it came from de Bohun, and could be related to Boone, Bond, Bone and many other spellings. At a Scottish festival I found out what the tartan pattern looks like, was told it was a very ancient pattern. Further discovered it comes from the Tribe of Mar.
There is a Bound Brook in New Jersey. Wish I was close enough to visit cemeteries there.
1. Bound Brook is a little waterway and borough in Somerset County, New Jersey. It is named because it formed a land boundary resulting from a treaty between English settlers and Native Americans. There is no Bound family connected to it.
2. Beware of Highland Games as a source of family information. There are serious genealogists and historians out there, but there are more people interested in the social aspects of their heritage. I was very involved in the Grandfather Mountain Games for a number of years, and speak from experience.
3. A look in George Black's well-respected "Surnames of Scotland" (available to borrow on archive.org) shows his research did not find Bound as a surname in Scotland. The names you mention - Bound, Bohun, Boone - are all English in origin generally. But in every case, Americans can really only determine national origin by tracing the family in question. A lot of changes happened among immigrants, and Anglo-sounding names were often adopted by people of other European ancestry.
4. The present world of Scottish tartans is almost entirely a creation of the early 19th century. Prior to then, there were distinct tartans in different districts, but not all these specific surname-tied patterns. Wikipedia has a quite excellent article on the subject, and I refer you to it for more details. Having said that there are really no "ancient" clan tartans, I will say that, in the Scottish diaspora following Culloden and the Clearances, the tartans have served as a valuable symbol for Scots interested in their heritage.
Good luck in your research!
Let me just weigh in to reinforce everything said here. Let me add also that one has to be really careful about these all-too-common claims that 'this surname is really the same as that surname'. These are based on two assumptions, neither of which is particularly valid. One is that everyone with the same surname belongs to the same extended family, and the second is that superficial similarities between surnames are necessarily a good indication of derivation. Only name-by-name genealogical documentation can enable one to conclude that one family derives from another.

taf
taf
2020-03-29 22:11:12 UTC
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Post by taf
Let me just weigh in to reinforce everything said here. Let me add also that one has to be really careful about these all-too-common claims that 'this surname is really the same as that surname'. These are based on two assumptions, neither of which is particularly valid. One is that everyone with the same surname belongs to the same extended family, and the second is that superficial similarities between surnames are necessarily a good indication of derivation. Only name-by-name genealogical documentation can enable one to conclude that one family derives from another.
I am going to amplify this with an example. Not exactly medieval, but we aren't doing much of that here anyhow, of late. Years back I did what amounted to a global one-name study of the Haswell surname. If you look the name up, you will read that this family derives from the village of Haswell in Durham. Except it is not a family at all, a score of distinct families, and though a small proportion of the people with this surname can be reasonably thought to derive their name from the Durham village, the majority do not. There are also places called Heswall in Cheshire and Halswell in Somerset that had Haswell families nearby that appear to have arisen there, plus an unidentified location in the southeast of England where there is a tight 17th-century cluster of the surname but I haven't found the relevant place name they would have come from. Much more common, though, are examples of drifting to or outright adopting the Haswell surname in the 18th and 19th centuries, and one in the 20th. I can show different families originally named Hassell (multiple instances), Halswell (multiple), Horswell (multiple), Hoswell, Harswell, Haisthwittle, Hezmalhalch, Hassenplug and, of course, Miller (twice, no less), all ending up being Haswells, and those are just the ones I can definitively trace through legitimate paper-trails.

Just imagine, then, how many different altered surnames, or people who lived near a boundary, or were bound by some agreement or servitude, etc., ended up as genealogically-distinct Bound families, with origins that do not apply to any of the others.

taf
Andrew Lancaster
2020-03-30 21:15:22 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by taf
Let me just weigh in to reinforce everything said here. Let me add also that one has to be really careful about these all-too-common claims that 'this surname is really the same as that surname'. These are based on two assumptions, neither of which is particularly valid. One is that everyone with the same surname belongs to the same extended family, and the second is that superficial similarities between surnames are necessarily a good indication of derivation. Only name-by-name genealogical documentation can enable one to conclude that one family derives from another.
I am going to amplify this with an example. Not exactly medieval, but we aren't doing much of that here anyhow, of late. Years back I did what amounted to a global one-name study of the Haswell surname. If you look the name up, you will read that this family derives from the village of Haswell in Durham. Except it is not a family at all, a score of distinct families, and though a small proportion of the people with this surname can be reasonably thought to derive their name from the Durham village, the majority do not. There are also places called Heswall in Cheshire and Halswell in Somerset that had Haswell families nearby that appear to have arisen there, plus an unidentified location in the southeast of England where there is a tight 17th-century cluster of the surname but I haven't found the relevant place name they would have come from. Much more common, though, are examples of drifting to or outright adopting the Haswell surname in the 18th and 19th centuries, and one in the 20th. I can show different families originally named Hassell (multiple instances), Halswell (multiple), Horswell (multiple), Hoswell, Harswell, Haisthwittle, Hezmalhalch, Hassenplug and, of course, Miller (twice, no less), all ending up being Haswells, and those are just the ones I can definitively trace through legitimate paper-trails.
Just imagine, then, how many different altered surnames, or people who lived near a boundary, or were bound by some agreement or servitude, etc., ended up as genealogically-distinct Bound families, with origins that do not apply to any of the others.
taf
Miller ... twice?
taf
2020-03-30 22:23:16 UTC
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Post by Andrew Lancaster
Miller ... twice?
Yes. In both instances someone with Haswell as a middle name thought it more distinctive than Miller, in one case with a Haswell-Miller double-barrel-surname intermediate.

taf

P***@aol.com
2013-09-30 14:03:33 UTC
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Yes Reaney does suggest :

Boon, Boone, Bone, Bown, Bowne : Hunfridus de Bohum, 1086; Winfrisdus de
Bowhun, 1120-3; William de Boun, 1119; Matildis de Bohun, Hy 2; john de Bown,
1275; Reginald Boon, 1279 - from Bohon (La Manche)


So this flurry of conversation has really created more of a mess! :))

PG
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