Discussion:
Milles, Catalogue of Honor, 1610
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taf
2021-08-14 17:09:42 UTC
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In 1610, Thomas Milles, nephew of noted herald Robert Glover, published an English translation of the latter's royal genealogy, entitled Catalogue of Honor, running more than 1000 pages. Is anyone aware of a copy of this work viewable online?

Google Books has an entry for it, but has it completely blocked, which obviously has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.

taf
J. Sardina
2021-08-14 18:16:26 UTC
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In 1610, Thomas Milles, nephew of noted herald Robert Glover, published an English translation of the latter's royal genealogy, entitled Catalogue of Honor, running more than 1000 pages. Is anyone aware of a copy of this work viewable online?
Google Books has an entry for it, but has it completely blocked, which obviously has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.
taf
Hello,

There is an interesting article about a certain page of it, and apparently there are a few copies.

http://www.adamghooks.net/2011/07/catalogue-of-dishonor.html

J. Sardina
Will Johnson
2021-08-14 18:24:53 UTC
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Post by J. Sardina
In 1610, Thomas Milles, nephew of noted herald Robert Glover, published an English translation of the latter's royal genealogy, entitled Catalogue of Honor, running more than 1000 pages. Is anyone aware of a copy of this work viewable online?
Google Books has an entry for it, but has it completely blocked, which obviously has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.
taf
Hello,
There is an interesting article about a certain page of it, and apparently there are a few copies.
http://www.adamghooks.net/2011/07/catalogue-of-dishonor.html
J. Sardina
It seems from this and a few other citations

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Inquiries_Into_the_Origin_and_Progress_o/A-JBAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22thomas%20milles%22%20catalogue&pg=PA244&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22thomas%20milles%22%20catalogue

that Fuller used this MS in his work Worthies
and that it was based on notes by his uncle Richard Glover
taf
2021-08-14 20:09:43 UTC
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Post by J. Sardina
There is an interesting article about a certain page of it, and apparently there are a few copies.
Yes, there are dozens of copies of it in libraries and private collections across the world, but the only scans I have found online, aside from single random pages given as examples of the content, are as part of a collection of early English books accessible only through subscriptions sold to libraries or other organizations with deep pockets. I was hoping someone knew of a copy somewhere that was readily accessible.

taf
Peter Stewart
2021-08-14 23:33:34 UTC
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Post by taf
In 1610, Thomas Milles, nephew of noted herald Robert Glover, published an English translation of the latter's royal genealogy, entitled Catalogue of Honor, running more than 1000 pages. Is anyone aware of a copy of this work viewable online?
Google Books has an entry for it, but has it completely blocked, which obviously has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.
Cold comfort, but the Latin treatise by Glover translated as preface to
the book is available here:

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=iwEA7aLfsUUC

When they get round to digitising it, the Bodleian library's copy will
have some extra interest - on the title page is noted by hand:
"Examined, and the Printers Errors and Translators mistakinges in sondry
Places corrected by William Camden ... and Tho. Milles ... the Publisher
hereof".

Wasn't the Bodleian a Google partner? If so, maybe they too are
constrained by the honour among thieves that absurdly leads Google to
block out-of-copyright books which have been reprinted in facsimile.

But in this case no such edition appears to have been issued, at any
rate recently, so maybe its absence from view is just laziness on the
part of several partner libraries holding copies. My local state library
has one, that I have never looked at, but it is inaccessible at present
due to Covid 19.

Peter Stewart
taf
2021-08-15 01:30:18 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
When they get round to digitising it, the Bodleian library's copy will
have some extra interest
[snip]
Post by Peter Stewart
Wasn't the Bodleian a Google partner? If so, maybe they too are
constrained by the honour among thieves that absurdly leads Google to
block out-of-copyright books which have been reprinted in facsimile.
The Bodleyan is one of those who, through a partner, is selling by-subscription access to a digital collection of Early English books, including this work. There is probably something in their contractual arrangement with Google that protects this product.

taf
J. Sardina
2021-08-15 01:40:33 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
When they get round to digitising it, the Bodleian library's copy will
have some extra interest
[snip]
Post by Peter Stewart
Wasn't the Bodleian a Google partner? If so, maybe they too are
constrained by the honour among thieves that absurdly leads Google to
block out-of-copyright books which have been reprinted in facsimile.
The Bodleyan is one of those who, through a partner, is selling by-subscription access to a digital collection of Early English books, including this work. There is probably something in their contractual arrangement with Google that protects this product.
taf
And what about the microfilm copies?

Would the Mormons have one by any chance?
Not that it would be easy to visit a center due to Covid.

I was a little bit surprised that some copies of what appears to be the only edition of 1610 are available for sale at antique book shops.

J. Sardina
taf
2021-08-15 03:23:04 UTC
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Post by J. Sardina
Would the Mormons have one by any chance?
They have something that says it is taken from it, but it is from the 19th century, is a third of the size, and doesn't have the information my 1705 citation says should be there.
Post by J. Sardina
Not that it would be easy to visit a center due to Covid.
Most of the out-of-copyright books from their collection are viewable at home. They may, though, have a subscription to one of the services (piggybanking on BYU's) that could be accessed at a Family History Center, but I am temporarily on foot, so I would want to figure out for sure if access is available (and there isn't a better option) before I embark on the 12-mile walk, each way, to the nearest one.

taf
robert.the...@gmail.com
2021-09-11 19:31:52 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by J. Sardina
Would the Mormons have one by any chance?
They have something that says it is taken from it, but it is from the 19th century, is a third of the size, and doesn't have the information my 1705 citation says should be there.
Post by J. Sardina
Not that it would be easy to visit a center due to Covid.
Most of the out-of-copyright books from their collection are viewable at home. They may, though, have a subscription to one of the services (piggybanking on BYU's) that could be accessed at a Family History Center, but I am temporarily on foot, so I would want to figure out for sure if access is available (and there isn't a better option) before I embark on the 12-mile walk, each way, to the nearest one.
taf
A copy is for sale here for 1,500 US if one has the means..

https://www.biblio.com/book/catalogue-honor-tresury-true-nobility-peculiar/d/320827691

Robert

Peter Stewart
2021-08-15 02:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
When they get round to digitising it, the Bodleian library's copy will
have some extra interest
[snip]
Post by Peter Stewart
Wasn't the Bodleian a Google partner? If so, maybe they too are
constrained by the honour among thieves that absurdly leads Google to
block out-of-copyright books which have been reprinted in facsimile.
The Bodleyan is one of those who, through a partner, is selling by-subscription access to a digital collection of Early English books, including this work. There is probably something in their contractual arrangement with Google that protects this product.
If there is a contractual obligation to fall in with Google's idiotic
denial of access to public-domain books that some publisher is seeking
to profit from, then happily several partner libraries are too
right-minded and/or too careless to comply. Viewable copies can
occasionally be found by text search that don't turn up from title or
author searches.

Peter Stewart
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