Discussion:
Elizabeth Palgrave wife of Robert Salmon
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Paulo Canedo
2017-03-19 19:22:21 UTC
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I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine greatgrandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas Disborough. The online genealogies disagree about the parents of Elizabeth some say that she was a daughter of Thomas Palgrave (grandfather of Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true would make her a descendant of Edward I however another ones make her the daughter of a completely different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer. Mary Brownson has some famous descendants so I think this is worth investigating. So what of this is correct, dear fellows of the newsgroup.
taf
2017-03-19 20:00:08 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are
correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine great-
grandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas
Disborough. The online genealogies disagree about the parents of
Elizabeth some say that she was a daughter of Thomas Palgrave
(grandfather of Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true would
make her a descendant of Edward I however another ones make her the
daughter of a completely different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer.
Some additional context would be helpful. Do you have a location or approximate dates for Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon? How about Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer?

That both prospective fathers are named Thomas suggests that someone found it stated that Elizabeth was daughter of a Thomas. Identifying that source is likely the key.

taf
Paulo Canedo
2017-03-19 21:23:39 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are
correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine great-
grandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas
Disborough. The online genealogies disagree about the parents of
Elizabeth some say that she was a daughter of Thomas Palgrave
(grandfather of Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true would
make her a descendant of Edward I however another ones make her the
daughter of a completely different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer.
Some additional context would be helpful. Do you have a location or approximate dates for Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon? How about Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer?
That both prospective fathers are named Thomas suggests that someone found it stated that Elizabeth was daughter of a Thomas. Identifying that source is likely the key.
taf
I was wrong the woman was called Agnes I was confused with her daughter. Robert Salmon was born about 1520 in Lamarsh in Essex and died in 15 january 1941. However I found yet another version of the parentage of this woman that makes her daughter of Thomas Palgrave and Elizabeth Gunton.
Paulo Canedo
2017-03-19 21:26:03 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are
correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine great-
grandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas
Disborough. The online genealogies disagree about the parents of
Elizabeth some say that she was a daughter of Thomas Palgrave
(grandfather of Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true would
make her a descendant of Edward I however another ones make her the
daughter of a completely different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer.
Some additional context would be helpful. Do you have a location or approximate dates for Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon? How about Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer?
That both prospective fathers are named Thomas suggests that someone found it stated that Elizabeth was daughter of a Thomas. Identifying that source is likely the key.
taf
I was wrong the woman was called Agnes I was confused with her supposed daughter.
taf
2017-03-19 21:18:44 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are
correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine
greatgrandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas
Disborough.
The pedigrees I am finding online are giving different names - Mary's grandmother Elizabeth Salmon, wife of John Underwood, being daughter of Robert Salmon and Agnes Palgrave.

With this, I find John Underwood marrying Elizabeth Salmond at Bulmer, Essex, 17 Nov. 1572. They have been identified as the parents of some baptisms at Lamarsh, Essex from 1581-1593. However, these records only name the father, and even though the two towns are in the same part of Essex, given the 8+-year gap between the Bulmer marriage and the first of these baptisms I think there is room to question that this is the same family.

For the earlier generation, I find the marriage of Agnete Palgrave and Robertus Salmon at South Weald, Essex, 15 Jan. 1542. This is on the other end of the county. The only baptism I find in the appropriate date range for a child of Robert Salmon is a Frances baptized at South Weald in 1568. On the other hand, there are children of Thomas Salmon and Elizabeth baptized at Bulmer in the early 1560s. While this is too late, if the late commencement of the records *1559) only catches the last of a large family, this is more likely to be the origin of Elizabeth Salmond, married at Bulmer, than the family in distant South Weald.

As to the 'which Palgrave' question, Thomas Palgrave with wife Alice Gunton lived at Thuxton, Norfolk (where Alice was from), and nowhere near South Weald. The 1613 visitation of Norfolk has a pedigree informed by a grandson names his children as Gregory, Edward, Walter, William, Mary (m. ____), Margaret (m. Robert Durrant), and Anne (m. Gregory Clarke of Therne, Norfolk). Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer married 3 July 1558 at Pulham St. Mary the Virgin, Norfolk. Obviously, there is no way possible that they could be parents of Agnes, wife of Robert Salmon, who married 16 years before and 50 miles away.

It looks to me like someone just played 'surname's-the-same' to cobble together a line where none exists. I would certainly conclude that Elizabeth Salmond was not son of Robert Salmon and Angel Palgrave, and further that Agnes Palgrave was not daughter of either Thomas Palgrave.

taf
taf
2017-03-19 21:40:07 UTC
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Post by taf
I would certainly conclude that Elizabeth Salmond was not son of Robert
Salmon and Angel Palgrave
Oops. Nor a daughter, for that matter.

taf
taf
2017-03-19 22:21:19 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by taf
I would certainly conclude that Elizabeth Salmond was not son of Robert
Salmon and Angel Palgrave
Oops. Nor a daughter, for that matter.
And that should have been Agnes Palgrave - I think spell-check got that one.

taf
John Hester
2018-05-17 19:05:23 UTC
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Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the online genealogies are correct Elizabeth Palgrave and Robert Salmon were the uterine greatgrandparents of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant Nicholas Disborough. The online genealogies disagree about the parents of Elizabeth some say that she was a daughter of Thomas Palgrave (grandfather of Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true would make her a descendant of Edward I however another ones make her the daughter of a completely different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer. Mary Brownson has some famous descendants so I think this is worth investigating. So what of this is correct, dear fellows of the newsgroup.
So what is the general consensus regarding the parents of Agnes at this point? Are Thomas Palgrave and Alice Guton still in the running?
taf
2018-05-17 23:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hester
Post by Paulo Canedo
I have seen this connection several times if the
online genealogies are correct Elizabeth Palgrave
and Robert Salmon were the uterine greatgrandparents
of immigrant Mary Brownson wife of immigrant
Nicholas Disborough. The online genealogies disagree
about the parents of Elizabeth some say that she was
a daughter of Thomas Palgrave (grandfather of
Richard Palgrave) and Alice Guton that if true
would make her a descendant of Edward I however
another ones make her the daughter of a completely
different Thomas Palgrave and Christian Sayer. Mary
Brownson has some famous descendants so I think
this is worth investigating. So what of this is
correct, dear fellows of the newsgroup.
So what is the general consensus regarding the parents
Post by Paulo Canedo
of Agnes at this point? Are Thomas Palgrave and
Alice Guton still in the running?
Only in so much as when someone's parentage is unknown, anyone of the same surname who is chronologically possible is technically 'still in the running' but in this case I see no reason whatsoever to suggest such a relationship, and the fact she does not show up in a listing of the children of Thomas Pagrave and Alice Gunton seems a strong reason to dismiss such a link. Equally important, I have serious doubts about the link between Mary Brownson and Agnes Palgrave.

taf

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