Discussion:
Margery Bigod who married William de Hastings
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Andrew Lancaster via
2014-08-30 11:25:50 UTC
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Dear List

Concerning a specific side issue to do with the Hastings, I note this
past discussion:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/3oWGE4p1lHs

It does appear clear that Dugdale (p.574 under Hastings, and p.133 under
Bigod) is probably the only clear source for this marriage and most
information associated with it. He had this information from the
collection of Robert Glover Somerset Herald. One bit of information is
that she brought Little Bradley, Suffolk, to the marriage. Dugdale also
said that it was to be had after the death of Gundred, stepmother of
Roger Bigod. (One thing I do not find back in Dugdale is Clark's exact
sounding claim that Margerie died 31 March 1237. Does anyone know where
that comes from? See
https://archive.org/stream/archaeologicalj02unkngoog#page/n302/mode/2up )

Already in the 19th century by the way, Eyton (Shropshire Vol.V pages
138-9) mentioned that under Bigod Dugdale put this marriage in a
different generation than under Hastings. Eyton preferred the version
under Bigod, and that is now the one more accepted. Eyton supplied the
wife for the other generation, as Maud Banastre.

Concerning trying to find anything to back up the assertions of Dugdale,
Douglas Richardson wrote on this forum: "Margaret le Bigod, is alleged
by Dugdale to have had the manor of Little Bradley, Suffolk in marriage,
which might well be true. However, I don't find any of the later male
members of the Hastings family dealing with this manor, so the manor was
probably passed in marriage to one of the later Hastings women in this
time period." He also found evidence that the Bigod family had at least
held Great Bradley (E 40/3775. Grant by William Bygod, lord of Great
Bradley near St. Edmund's). Also, for Bradley generally, Katharine
Keats-Rohan's newsletter, Prosopon, No. 10 (1999), pg. 3: "Adeliza Bigod
was addressed in writs of Henry I and Stephen concerning tithes at
Bradley, Suffolk: Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum, II, nos 1485, 1495;
III, no. 82."

The difficulty of tracking the Hastings inheritances reduces in the mid
13th century when the family hit the big time, and also inquisitions
post mortem became far more detailed.

So I was wondering if this sighting helps. The IPM of the first John de
Hastings (son of Henry, son of Henry), does mention Little Bradley:
https://archive.org/stream/calendarofinquis62grea#page/n49/mode/2up

Please let me know if my interpretation is wrong.

Best Regards
Andrew
Andrew Lancaster
2018-10-29 00:07:06 UTC
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Post by Andrew Lancaster via
Dear List
Concerning a specific side issue to do with the Hastings, I note this
https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/3oWGE4p1lHs
It does appear clear that Dugdale (p.574 under Hastings, and p.133 under
Bigod) is probably the only clear source for this marriage and most
information associated with it. He had this information from the
collection of Robert Glover Somerset Herald. One bit of information is
that she brought Little Bradley, Suffolk, to the marriage. Dugdale also
said that it was to be had after the death of Gundred, stepmother of
Roger Bigod. (One thing I do not find back in Dugdale is Clark's exact
sounding claim that Margerie died 31 March 1237. Does anyone know where
that comes from? See
https://archive.org/stream/archaeologicalj02unkngoog#page/n302/mode/2up )
Already in the 19th century by the way, Eyton (Shropshire Vol.V pages
138-9) mentioned that under Bigod Dugdale put this marriage in a
different generation than under Hastings. Eyton preferred the version
under Bigod, and that is now the one more accepted. Eyton supplied the
wife for the other generation, as Maud Banastre.
Concerning trying to find anything to back up the assertions of Dugdale,
Douglas Richardson wrote on this forum: "Margaret le Bigod, is alleged
by Dugdale to have had the manor of Little Bradley, Suffolk in marriage,
which might well be true. However, I don't find any of the later male
members of the Hastings family dealing with this manor, so the manor was
probably passed in marriage to one of the later Hastings women in this
time period." He also found evidence that the Bigod family had at least
held Great Bradley (E 40/3775. Grant by William Bygod, lord of Great
Bradley near St. Edmund's). Also, for Bradley generally, Katharine
Keats-Rohan's newsletter, Prosopon, No. 10 (1999), pg. 3: "Adeliza Bigod
was addressed in writs of Henry I and Stephen concerning tithes at
Bradley, Suffolk: Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum, II, nos 1485, 1495;
III, no. 82."
The difficulty of tracking the Hastings inheritances reduces in the mid
13th century when the family hit the big time, and also inquisitions
post mortem became far more detailed.
So I was wondering if this sighting helps. The IPM of the first John de
https://archive.org/stream/calendarofinquis62grea#page/n49/mode/2up
Please let me know if my interpretation is wrong.
Best Regards
Andrew
Coming back to this old topic, an interesting lead. As usual it is possible this is known to some already but at least it seems clear that it was not known to everyone. In particular I recall Douglas Richardson was interested in this subject.

Little Bradley had come from the Toeni family to the Bigods and then actually ended up in the same Pecche family which Margery Bigod's Hastings daughter Maud married into. (Strangely, but apparently quite certainly, her own children lost their inheritances to the children of a later wife.)

That seems quite promising, and is in any case an extra bit of circumstantial evidence to help us believe that Dugdale had it right to say there was a Hastings-Bigod marriage. (Another bit is the 2005 proof by Rosie Bevan that Roger Bigod and his wife had a daughter named Margaret, and indeed one named Ida which is a name the Hastings family also used.)

An article about this Pecche family: http://suffolkinstitute.pdfsrv.co.uk/customers/Suffolk%20Institute/2014/01/10/Volume%20XX%20Part%201%20(1928)_Notes%20on%20families%20at%20Great%20Thurlow%20and%20Little%20Bradley%20H%20C%20Andrews_43%20to%2047.pdf#search=little%20bradley

Concerning the earlier history of Little Bradley, by following up references by Judith Green and Keats-Rohan, I note that these documents are the relevant ones:

Green (1999) "The Descent of Belvoir", ''Prosopon'', No. 10.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/issue10-2.pdf
She cited ''Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum''

II 1485 (but she must mean 1458)
https://archive.org/details/regestaregumangl02davi/page/198

II 1495 https://archive.org/details/regestaregumangl02davi/page/206

III 82 https://archive.org/details/regestaregumangl03davi/page/32
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