Discussion:
OT: heraldic motto on tombstone
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taf
2021-07-25 05:16:58 UTC
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This is much too late to be on-topic (unless like some of the more outlandish Irish genealogists one considers every Irishman to be descended in the direct male line from one Irish king or another), but I would appreciate some more eyes on an image of a 19th century tombstone, specifically to identify the first word in the motto.

The arms match those Burke assigns both the Conollys of Castletown and the Conollys of Medford, while the crest seems closer to the latter. However, the motto is not something I have been able to find associated with any Conollys elsewhere.

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1mj/mt-jerome-49/target57.html

It appears to end with '. . . venale nec auro', but I cannot come up with a satisfactory reading of the first word.

taf
Peter Stewart
2021-07-25 06:35:34 UTC
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Post by taf
This is much too late to be on-topic (unless like some of the more outlandish Irish genealogists one considers every Irishman to be descended in the direct male line from one Irish king or another), but I would appreciate some more eyes on an image of a 19th century tombstone, specifically to identify the first word in the motto.
The arms match those Burke assigns both the Conollys of Castletown and the Conollys of Medford, while the crest seems closer to the latter. However, the motto is not something I have been able to find associated with any Conollys elsewhere.
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1mj/mt-jerome-49/target57.html
It appears to end with '. . . venale nec auro', but I cannot come up with a satisfactory reading of the first word.
I can't read the first letters from the photo, but the word is probably
"gemmis" parahrasing an ode of Horace ("non gemmis necque purpura venale
nec auro", not to be purchased by gems nor by purple or gold).

Peter Stewart
taf
2021-07-25 12:27:55 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
Post by taf
This is much too late to be on-topic (unless like some of the more outlandish Irish genealogists one considers every Irishman to be descended in the direct male line from one Irish king or another), but I would appreciate some more eyes on an image of a 19th century tombstone, specifically to identify the first word in the motto.
The arms match those Burke assigns both the Conollys of Castletown and the Conollys of Medford, while the crest seems closer to the latter. However, the motto is not something I have been able to find associated with any Conollys elsewhere.
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1mj/mt-jerome-49/target57.html
It appears to end with '. . . venale nec auro', but I cannot come up with a satisfactory reading of the first word.
I can't read the first letters from the photo, but the word is probably
"gemmis" parahrasing an ode of Horace ("non gemmis necque purpura venale
nec auro", not to be purchased by gems nor by purple or gold).
Ah, that would seem to be it. I am finding this exact paraphrase, "Gemmis venale nec auro", in both The Eton Latin Grammar of 1828 (and again in 1846) and The Bromsgrove Latin Grammar of 1841, while "non gemmis venale nec auro" is attributed to Horace in a 19th century Latin Dictionary for Junior Students, so that specific paraphrase was 'doing the rounds' among those with school-boy fluency at the time. Thanks,

taf
Peter Stewart
2021-07-25 13:01:21 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by taf
This is much too late to be on-topic (unless like some of the more outlandish Irish genealogists one considers every Irishman to be descended in the direct male line from one Irish king or another), but I would appreciate some more eyes on an image of a 19th century tombstone, specifically to identify the first word in the motto.
The arms match those Burke assigns both the Conollys of Castletown and the Conollys of Medford, while the crest seems closer to the latter. However, the motto is not something I have been able to find associated with any Conollys elsewhere.
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1mj/mt-jerome-49/target57.html
It appears to end with '. . . venale nec auro', but I cannot come up with a satisfactory reading of the first word.
I can't read the first letters from the photo, but the word is probably
"gemmis" parahrasing an ode of Horace ("non gemmis necque purpura venale
nec auro", not to be purchased by gems nor by purple or gold).
Ah, that would seem to be it. I am finding this exact paraphrase, "Gemmis venale nec auro", in both The Eton Latin Grammar of 1828 (and again in 1846) and The Bromsgrove Latin Grammar of 1841, while "non gemmis venale nec auro" is attributed to Horace in a 19th century Latin Dictionary for Junior Students, so that specific paraphrase was 'doing the rounds' among those with school-boy fluency at the time. Thanks,
Never underestimate how pretentious and self-satisfied the British
educated and leisured classes were in the past - they used Latin tags as
a kind of code or telegraphese to signal their status and learning to
each other, like peacocks fanning their gaudy tails. Cutting out words
as if Latin could be communicated in shorthand or virtually by ESP was
their favourite method of excluding the unwashed and unlettered, who of
course did all the work and brought most of the initiative to the
industrial revolution.

Peter Stewart
taf
2021-07-25 13:18:12 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
Never underestimate how pretentious and self-satisfied the British
educated and leisured classes were in the past - they used Latin tags as
a kind of code or telegraphese to signal their status and learning to
each other, like peacocks fanning their gaudy tails.
Quite. Napier's message, "Peccavi", comes to mind, having the double purpose of reporting success in his Indian campaign and broadcasting this exclusionary class self-satisfaction.

taf
Peter Stewart
2021-07-25 21:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Never underestimate how pretentious and self-satisfied the British
educated and leisured classes were in the past - they used Latin tags as
a kind of code or telegraphese to signal their status and learning to
each other, like peacocks fanning their gaudy tails.
Quite. Napier's message, "Peccavi", comes to mind, having the double purpose of reporting success in his Indian campaign and broadcasting this exclusionary class self-satisfaction.
A perfect example - anyone who has seen a displaying peacock from behind
will know how ungainly it is from an angle other than the intended
viewpoint. Self-awareness was never the strong point of Charles II's
descendants, including in the miserable Sindher.

Peter Stewart

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