Discussion:
Berkeley of Dursley, co. Glocs. and the Lords Everingham
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Pennie Manderson
2021-03-27 08:32:08 UTC
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John,
It is pretty clear that CP, DD, Sanders, and Smyth have major
differences in a number of different areas. I will try to keep track
and send a revised post at least listing the various discrepancies.
Thanks to Tim for inserting the Smyth information! I have just done
that and note that Smyth and Sanders have major differences in the
descent from the William who died about 1300 (gen. 10 previous post
number 75).
Doug
The most important person in this supposed fraud is Sir William Waleraund married 2nd Isabel de Kilpeck who was the mother of Alan de Plugenet Sir William Waleraund took Kilpeck as dower when he married Isabel de Kilpek - before he died Robert de Walerand signed over kilpeck back to Isabels son from a previous marriage Alan de Plugenet. Isabel de Kilpeck is forgotten about as most people only see Isabel de Berkeley. This information is easily searched on the net - Hope this helps - Pennie
TGB
2021-04-07 07:05:03 UTC
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You've mixed up William Walerand snr who married Isabel de Berkeley (first married to Thomas de Rochford) before 1206 with their son William Walerand jnr who married Isabel de Kilpeck. The elder William died before 1245, the younger married Isabel de Kilpeck before 1256:

Curia Regis Rolls, IV, 7-8 Joh, p.300: Michaelmas Term 1206 Glouc' - Robertus de Rocheford ponit loco suo Willelmum de Bedeberg' versus Willelmum Walram et Ysabellam uxorem suam et heredem et versus Aliciam filiam et heredem Thome de Rochef' quam ipse Robertus vocavit ad warantum versus eosdem Willelmum et Ysabellam de placito dotis; et ponit eundem versus Rogerum de Berkelay de placito escambii advocationis ecclesie de Oselwrthe; et amovit Thebbaldum de Reinevill', quem prius posuerat etc.

Fine Roll Hen III Vol II p.252: 41 Hen III 1257 D' fine auri]- Will's Walerand qui p'mogenitam filiam & altam hedem Hug' de Kilpek' duxit in uxem dat R. tres marc auri p balia Haye Hereford & de bosco de Coyttemor ....

Abstracts of the Feet of Fines of Gloucestershire, I, p.123 No.619: 8 July 1258 Westminster. William Walerand and Isabel his wife quer; Philip Marmion and Joan his wife def. The manor of Kilpeck [Herefs], 1 ploughland in Tohinton [Tockington, Glous?] and the advowson of Norbury [Salop]. (Covenant). Grant of the manor, land and advowson as in demesnes, homages, rents, services, knights' fees, serjeantries, socages, wards, reliefs, escheats and all else to Isabel as her purparty of the inheritance of Hugh de Kilpeck father of Isabel and Joan, whose heirs they are. To hold to William and Isabel and Isabel's heirs. And remise and quitclaim, specifying Joan's heirs, to William and Isabel and Isabel's heirs of the manor of Rockley [Wilts]. For this, grant to Philip and Joan of the manors of Fernts, Bradford on Avon [Wilts], Castres [Castle Church (Staffs)?], Norbury and Pulverbatch [Salop], and the advowson of the church of Pulverbatch, except the advowson of Norbury, as the purpatry of Joan. To hold to Philip and Joan and Joan's heirs as in demesnes, homages, rents, services, knights' fees, serjeantries, socages, wards, reliefs, escheats and all else. When William and Isabel are is seisin of the manor of Rockley they will pay 42s 6d a year from the manor at Michaelmas to Philip and Joan and Joan's heirs. And if William or Isabel or Isabel's heirs at any time should remise their claim in the manor of Rockley, they are to pay to Philip and Joan and Joan's heirs the 42s 6d of annual rent from the manor of Kilpeck.
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