Discussion:
Ancestral memories: Burnham of Connecticut, with Henry VIII and Queen Elizabeth
(too old to reply)
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-08 05:49:20 UTC
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OVERVIEW

FIRST GENERATION

Henry VIII, King of England. His story and the stories of his ancestors are given in the Cecil/Davis thread at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/N1VmHNvJTQg

SECOND GENERATION

2-A. Elizabeth, Queen of England (1533-1603), daughter of King Henry VIII by Anne Boleyn.

2-B. Christian, daughter of King Henry VIII by Anne Bassett [b. 1520, step-daughter of Arthur Plantagenet (uncle of King Henry VIII) and descended through Grenville from Bonville, Courtenay and Comyn], married “Neville,” bastard son of Henry Neville, 5th Earl of Westmorland by Margaret, bastard daughter of Lewis Pollard. The stories of the Neville lineage will be added soon to the Cecil/Davis thread.

THIRD GENERATION

3-A. Anne, daughter of Queen Elizabeth by Walter Ralegh (elder), m. Richard Wright (elder); their son Richard married Anne (3-B below).

3-B. Anne, daughter of “Neville” and Christian (2-B), m. Richard Wright (younger), son of Richard Wright (elder) by Anne (3-A above), daughter of Queen Elizabeth.

FOURTH GENERATION

Anne (d. 1703), daughter of Richard Wright (son of 3-A) and his wife Anne (3-B), m. Thomas Burnham (elder), immigrant to Connecticut.

FIFTH GENERATION

Thomas Burnham (younger, 1646-1726), m. Naomi Hull, whose great-grandfather Robert White of Messing, Essex (d. 1617) has more American descendants than almost any other man of his generation. According to the ancestors, Robert White was a bastard son of Richard White (of South Warnborough, Hampshire), with a descent through Hungerford from King Edward I.

SIXTH GENERATION

Josiah Burnham (1696-1763), m. (1) Hannah Stedman, descended through Fitch from Rev. Samuel Stone, early teacher and pastor at Hartford, Connecticut (with a likely medieval lineage shown at wikitree, without any known royal ancestry).

SEVENTH GENERATION

Hannah Burnham (1723-1809), m. Daniel Hunt, descended from John Webster, Governor of Connecticut.

EIGHTH GENERATION

Daniel Hunt, Jr. (1751-1792), m. Hannah Miller, descended from William Bradford, Governor of Plymouth Colony.

NINTH GENERATION

James Hunt (1781-1869), m. Sarah Jewel, whose mother Sarah Moore descends from Thomas More, Chancellor of King Henry VIII.

TENTH GENERATION

Esther Marie Hunt (1824-1887), m. Prince Tobey, descended from Standish, Warenne (Warren), Lannoy (Delano), Jenney and Carey.

ELEVENTH GENERATION

William Walter Tobey, m. Nettie Ellen Coons, whose mother Julia (Wallace) Coons is at Generation 26 in the first Wallace descent in the Scrimgeour/Wallace thread at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/1pupplUCvcI%5B76-100%5D
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-08 05:55:24 UTC
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Explanation: Communicating with Ancestors

I began communicating with deceased ancestors and recording their stories three years ago, in November 2016, after I was told that this was possible. When recording the stories of distant German ancestors, I "heard" their thoughts in plain English. However, at times there was confusion about the proper choice of a word. When that happens, the ancestor and I agree on the particular word to use, and then I put parentheses around the word in question, and then the ancestor moves on with his/her story.

Humans have a natural ability to communicate with deceased ancestors. In some countries this ability is taken for granted, but in “modern” western society, this ability has been largely lost.

Here is my ancestor Anschetil d’Harcourt’s explanation of how he learned to communicate with ancestors: “When my grandfather died, I was young. I was sad because I wanted to be close to him. I asked how I could talk to him. My father said: Think of your grandfather. Words will appear. That is your grandfather.”

On Aug. 26, 2018, my ancestor Tobey Mathew (an early bishop in the Church of England) further explained:


"Bishop Tobey Mathew is speaking, if that is the correct word. Bishop Tobey Mathew will simply refer to himself as Bishop. Bishop understood, before he died, that he would be able to communicate with descendants. Bishop understood that descendants would have the choice. Bishop also understood that he had the choice to communicate with ancestors. Bishop knew, from an early age, that he could communicate with his mother. This was because his mother died when he was three years old. Bishop understood, because of this experience, that there was a clear reason for this. Children who lost the parents had the ability to continue in their time of need. Bishop never thought beyond this. Bishop simply understood that this was common. Bishop understood, because of his role in the Church, that Bishop had to accept the accepted teaching on this. This was simple: The ability existed, so God must have had a reason."


Deceased ancestors appear unanimous in stating that, upon death, a separation of the soul into two parts occurs. As my recently-deceased father explained on Dec. 3, 2018, three days after his death:


"Roger knew, as Roger died, that there would be a change. Roger remembered hearing that there was a separation. Roger experienced this separation. Roger knew to expect it. Roger also knew, because of his training, that it is best to simply accept. Roger did not fight. The separation took place. Roger experienced a flash of memories. Things in Roger’s life that Roger did not have any recollection of went through Roger’s mind. Roger does not think that these memories still exist. Roger is certain that aspects of his life are no longer available. Much of Roger’s intellectual interest is simply not available. This suggests that the purpose of what Roger is in now is not related. Roger hopes that, as Roger experiences what he is experiencing, John will continue to make notes."


When I was told that it is possible to communicate with deceased ancestors, I was cautioned to always have a respectful attitude when talking to them. I decided to try it and see what happened, and it worked.

On the “Day of the Dead” (the day after Halloween) in 2016, I thought of the names of all of my grandparents and their parents and grandparents, and they started talking to me. (I made detailed notes.) Remorse came up immediately for some of them. I learned that women often had ongoing connections with living daughters and granddaughters, but most of the men had been isolated since their deaths. I was told – several times – that after death there is a kind of separation of what we call the soul into two parts. Each ancestor has a part that remains accessible to descendants, and a part that goes elsewhere. Memories are incomplete.

Ancestors want to see the well-being of their descendants. Ancestors also want to be able to talk to their own parents and children. Ancestors hope that living descendants will work their way back from their parents or grandparents to more distant ancestors, one generation at a time. This allows children and parents among the ancestors to talk to each other, when a living descendant is open to ancestral communication.

Ancestors want to avoid hearing from descendants who just want to ask questions about the family tree. Ancestors may not communicate with descendants with only this in mind. For this reason, it is once again a good idea to work your back from one generation to the next. Ancestors believe that descendants who are respectful will be pleased to talk about their own lives. Ancestors want their descendants to live will, and ancestors are concerned when descendants are struggling. Ancestors have the ability to observe the lives of living descendants, but they often do not do so. Ancestors may be inclined to be more observant after a descendant contacts an ancestor, especially if that ancestor had not had any communication with descendants before.

Some ancestors, especially those who were devoutly religious, may avoid communicating with descendants who don’t share their moral values.

Husbands and wives who didn’t get along with each other may be able to begin to communicate about issues that they never talked about before death.

One final point – I have heard some disturbing stories from ancestors, and proper respect demands that the ancestor be asked for permission before sharing such stories.
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-08 06:03:12 UTC
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FIRST GENERATION (King Henry VIII and Queen Anne Boleyn and mistress Anne Basset)

Henry VIII, King of England

(Apr. 7, 2019) Henry, King of England, did not expect to be king. Henry had an elder brother. Arthur was capable. Arthur was being trained. Arthur was cut down. Henry was elevated.

Henry did not have temperament. Henry was understood to be a second son. A second son had the elevated status without the burden. This was Henry. This had to be set aside. Henry was not agreeable. The father had to insist. Henry must give up much of what Henry expected. Henry had to be prepared. The burden was of Henry. There was no other choice. Henry had to ensure that the family was not destroyed. Henry understood. The family was under attack.
Henry had to experience a change in the perception of everyone. People never had to think carefully around Henry. Now they did.

Henry was aware. There was a man who poisoned. Henry was also aware. Venice was of poison. Henry had to think of who was friendly to Venice. Henry also had to think, who was inclined to oppose the King. Both were present in Neville. Henry was suspicious. Henry held back.

Henry was able to think, after there was a time of unrest, that people outside the country were affecting what people inside the country were thinking. Henry was able to think of a few examples of people who returned from Italy and began talking and writing in a way that was unique. Henry had to think, after three examples, that Venice was the common area that these men had visited. Henry also had to think, the way of thinking was not a clear threat.
Henry had to examine the thinking to understand why this was being promoted.
Henry understood, because it came from Italy, it had to be something that the Church knew of. Henry also understood, because it was something that was not a clear threat, this might not have been examined. Henry asked a church official about the new way of thinking. The official said this was something that the Church was investigating. Henry asked about the implication of the thinking. The Church leader suggested that one implication was that people should think clearly for themselves about the world around them. Henry was not able to get anything else from the leader. Henry thought, because of this, there was something that was being discovered or still hidden.

Henry was unable to spend much time thinking. Henry was always active. There were too many disruptions. Henry had decided that the Puritans as well as the Catholics needed to be suppressed. Henry, in retrospect, has to wonder if Henry should have supported the Puritans. However, the Puritans had a tendency to zeal that was not agreeable to cooperation. Zeal was the father of disharmony. Henry needed men to think of compromising. Henry had to act as he did.

Henry did not think of the consequences when Henry agreed to marry the widow of his brother. Henry was available. Henry needed an alliance. Henry understood that Spain was a good counter to France. This was something that Henry never considered beyond that idea. Henry did not think that the wife of his brother was a bad woman. Henry did not think of her not being able to bear a son. Henry imagined having a son. Henry understood that he had a vision of never having a son who grew to manhood.

Henry did not think, because of what he decided, that there would arise a crisis. But this is what happened. Henry needed a son because Italy was going to tear England apart. Henry did not have any way to prevent such a disaster unless Henry had a legitimate son. Henry needed to do whatever was necessary. This had the result of splitting England from the Roman Church. This meant that England had to obey the King in a way that was new. Henry was uncomfortable with this unfortunate situation. Henry was disinclined to be closely involved with the Church. However, Henry had to take responsibility. Henry found an archbishop who had a view that Henry could support. This had to be good enough.

(Apr. 8, 2019) Henry does not have a feeling that Henry is well-respected. Henry was of the opinion that, as King, Henry did not need to worry about the effect of what he did. Henry did not think about his legacy. Henry was preoccupied with survival. Henry had appetites that Henry was inclined to not worry about. Henry understood that he needed to do what he wanted. Henry also needed to act for the kingdom. Henry was unable to make a good balance. Henry has had much time to reflect. Henry hopes that, because of what Henry is saying, Henry will be better understood, even if those who scowl at his memory are unwilling to change their judgment.

Henry understood, after the first of his ministers, that there would be a constant temptation. Henry needed a man who would do the will of the King. The man needed to be someone who wanted power. The man needed to be someone who was not of undue scruples. This was something that Henry understood without thinking of consequences. The man who did the will of the King without hesitation would do as he willed as long as the King did not object. This was the problem. Henry did not solve that problem.

Henry did not have a clear intention. Henry had to think of the situation. Henry had an enemy. The enemy reached into England. The enemy had the ability to enter into families. A family that was influenced by the enemy could decide to resist. Henry had to think. There had to be no open statement. There had to be no decision of resistance. There had to be a hidden understanding. This had to be communicated discreetly. This was slowly done.

Henry understood, as it grew obvious that Italy was responding to Henry, Henry needed to rid England of the Catholic Church. Italy was using the Church. Italy was the enemy. Henry understood that Venice and the Church were Italy. Henry accepted that the Church had a power over the minds of the people.

Henry understood, as long as this was allowed to continue, Henry was incapable of defending himself. Henry needed an heir. Henry knew, because his wife was no longer able to bear, Henry could use this as a pretext. That depended on the Pope refusing to grant an annulment. Henry expected this. If the annulment was not granted, then Henry would destroy the Roman Church in England. Henry thought, if it happened that the Pope granted the annulment, Henry could proceed to get an heir. Henry thought, if this happened, Rome would demonstrate that Henry had power over the Church in England. For this reason, Henry imagined that the Church would not. Henry of course was correct.

(Apr. 9, 2019) Henry knew, because of his experience, that Henry would not be attacked. The attack would be on his successor. Henry understood how to dominate. Any potential attacker would have to face the men that Henry marshalled to oppose. This was done repeatedly. Italy imposed its rule on people who would oppose. Puritans were not immune. Catholics were susceptible. People who wanted something were vulnerable to money from Italy. This money came with a demand to oppose the King.

Henry wanted, before he died, to ensure his succession. This was the battle that Henry could not afford to lose. Henry did not have a good result. The result was not a total loss.

(Apr. 10) Henry understands that there are people among the living who do not want the story that Henry is telling to be told. Henry is able to speak, after being isolated for many years. Henry also understands that the man who is recording is in a condition that gives him time while robbing him of the ability to work. Henry simply has to accept what the man is accepting. Henry also understands, because of what has happened, there is a need for the story of Henry to be shared. Henry expects this to be available, but Henry realizes that this may not be available to many.

Henry will accept that his view is not the modern view. Henry suspects that the modern view is not of the truth. Henry understands that two men, as Henry speaks, are attempting to twist what is being heard. Henry is capable of guaranteeing that his words are recorded as he thought. Henry also thinks, the man often hears in a different way, with the meaning clearly the same. Henry has not tried to change when the words were recorded in this way.

Henry has the understanding that his descendant has begun a new step in telling of the family. Henry understands that, for the time being, Henry has the opportunity to tell of his life. Later, there will not be time. Henry is of a mind to speak as the opportunity permits. Henry had to think of the lineages that Henry wants to ensure get properly recorded. Henry understands that one lineage includes a marriage by a descendant with a daughter of a descendant of Queen Elizabeth. This is something that Henry hopes will be very well received. Henry had a feeling that Elizabeth was very reluctant. Henry suspects that this has been somewhat reduced.

Henry also hopes that the lineage of Cecil will be recorded. Henry does not think that this has been observed. Henry thinks that the lineage to Governor West has been noticed, but not accepted. Henry suspects that the descents from Governor West have not been noticed. The other descents are important, but these are the most important. Henry understands that Edward will have a thought about his own descents.

(Apr. 11, 2019) Henry thinks that Henry has said enough. Henry understands that many details of the reign of Henry appear to be without reason. Henry hopes that what Henry has shared gives an explanation. Henry will say again. The house of Henry was being attacked. The enemy was Italy. Henry understood that the Church was Italy. Henry understood that Venice was the power that manipulated the Church. Henry had to resist or submit. Henry chose the path of his father. Henry understands that his successor, James Stuart, was also of the same mind. Henry understands that the son of James was cut down. This is as happened to Henry.

--

Anne Boleyn, Queen of England and mother of Queen Elizabeth

(June 10, 2019) Anne was the sister of a mistress. Anne became the Queen. Anne failed. Anne was cut.

(June 16, 2019) Anne wanted. The sister had. Anne wanted more.

(June 17, 2019) Anne hoped. The King noticed. Mary was pregnant. Mary was given to a husband. The husband was appreciative. Mary accepted. The King took Anne.

(June 18, 2019) Anne wanted to think of being in a vision. Anne had to deal with reality. The men near the King were ambitious and unscrupulous. The King dominated. The men obeyed. The King looked away. The men did as they willed. Anne was a target. A man with influence over the Queen was a man with power that could not be denied, even if it was not openly acknowledged. A Queen could overthrow an ambitious man. Anne had to begin.

(June 20, 2019) Queen Anne had to be subtle. Anne was not good at being subtle. Anne had to think of not making an enemy. Anne made an enemy. The enemy tried to make an appearance. Anne always avoided. The enemy found another. The man was ingratiating. The man was calculating. Anne was captivated. The King had little time. Anne had to be away. Anne wanted company. The man offered. Anne was tempted. The man arranged. Anne was caught. There was no sin.

(later) Queen Anne was accused. There was no defense. A sheet was on the bed. The sheet had the smell. Anne was tricked. A man who was trusted did as he was paid. Anne was not able to defend. The decision was final. Nobody listened. The King had no say. The King understood that men wanted the Queen to be eliminated. The King had to accept, or ruin the men. Queen was not a position of power. Anne found that in the case of interest, men would cheat instead of being proper gentlemen. Anne hoped to think, after a time, Anne could help to rid the court of men who were unworthy. Anne was cut down before Anne had time to do as Anne envisioned.

--

Anne Basset (mother of Christian)

(July 5, 2019) Anne was the mistress. Anne understood that the mistress did not last long. If the mistress got pregnant before being discarded, the mistress might have a long life. The mother of a daughter would be cared for. A mother of a son would be treated with respect. The King did not treat people with respect. Occasionally foreigners were respected. Usually they were as anyone else. The King overpowered. The King was unable to be aware of how he did.

(July 15, 2019) Anne had to think. There was another. Anne understood. A pregnant mistress was unable to keep the attention of the King. Anne would be provided for. If Anne bore a son, there would be favor. Anne bore a daughter. There was no more.

(July 31, 2019) Anne had a difficulty. There was never enough. The King provided. There was a way to make a mess. Anne was tempted to live in the style of a courtier. This could not be done, if Anne wanted to have enough for the daughter. Anne hoped that the daughter would be able to be as a courtier. This was never possible. Anne had to simply accept, there would never be a way.

(Aug. 12, 2019) Anne had to give up a dream. There would never be a husband. Anne understood, because of the daughter, there would not be a man who was willing. The daughter of King Henry would be too much for a man to dare to be near. Anne hoped, but there was nobody. A man from court was responsible for an effort. A husband would be able to have influence, if the man was able to continue at court while Anne and the baby were away. Anne had to agree that the daughter would not be at court. King Henry had to not be distracted. This was something that Anne realized was part of the decision. A husband would want to use the influence of a daughter of the King. This made it impossible to find a husband, except for a man who would not be acceptable. King Henry must not have a worry of being attacked by people who used a daughter as a target.
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-08 06:13:47 UTC
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SECOND GENERATION (first descent)

Elizabeth, Queen of England (1533-1603), daughter of King Henry VIII by Anne Boleyn.

(July 5, 2019) Queen Elizabeth. The Queen was as a king. The Queen had the feeling of being commanded. The King was in the Queen. People began to understand. Henry was alive in the mind of Elizabeth. Elizabeth was alive. The family continued, for the time being. Elizabeth was able, with the help of able advisers, to avoid disaster. The times were perilous. There were enemies in foreign countries. There were also enemies within England.

Ambitious men hoped. The Queen was unable to bear. There was a rumor that the Queen was sterile. Queen Elizabeth knew, nobody would marry a woman who had an unknown baby. A royal marriage was impossible. The Queen would always be the ‘virgin Queen.’ Queen Elizabeth was never going to have a family. The rest of the family was not of help. Stucley had to retire. An ambitious courtier was able to make a scandal. Stucley was not at fault. Stucley was blamed. There had to be a form of retribution. The courtier did not realize. The mansion burned. Destitution followed. The courtier was eventually able to understand that he reaped what he sowed.

Queen Elizabeth hoped. There were three men. Essex was unavailable, even thought it was considered. There were two foreign princes who might be appropriate. Queen did not think. There was simply no possible way, although a diplomatic inquiry and exchange of discussions was not out of place. There was never any way for Queen to tell, without being a scandalous woman, even though the deed was done to preserve. Queen will tell.

Queen was not Queen. Queen was Princess Elizabeth. The princess was under suspicion of plotting to replace the Catholic sister. Elizabeth hoped. Elizabeth never acted. Others were aware of the ambition of Elizabeth. Others assumed, if they acted successfully, Elizabeth would reward them with positions. This was not an idle hope. This was intelligent calculation.

This made the life of Elizabeth not worth preserving, if Mary was asked. Mary chose. Elizabeth was to be killed. Mary did not think carefully. The deed was not planned. Elizabeth had time. Pregnancy was the obvious way to prevent an execution. Elizabeth suspected that Mary would not choose poison. Elizabeth was correct, or perhaps a plan to poison was not carried out in time.

Elizabeth had an assigned companion. The woman was able. The woman was instructed. No one was allowed to be near Elizabeth. The woman was given additional instruction. Walter Ralegh was allowed. The additional instruction was from the man who paid the woman. Elizabeth knew, this was not safe. Elizabeth had no idea of what Mary had decided. The man explained. Mary would kill. Elizabeth was a danger.

Elizabeth had a new discovery. Being a mother awakened a feeling. The feeling was of longing. The baby must be near. Elizabeth could not have the baby near. The baby had to be hidden. The man Walter had to be able to act as a man with a bastard. Or, Walter had to find a way to pretend the baby was of another important person. Walter was not completely successful. One man was able to understand, the baby was of the Queen. This one man was able to talk. He was generally disbelieved.

Queen Elizabeth did not have much contact with the daughter. Queen had to wait. A serving girl would not be appropriate. A lady in waiting would. Queen arranged. Queen was able to have a visit. The daughter had no idea. The daughter was impressed. Queen had a way of following in the mind afterward. Queen did not think, if Queen focused, that the daughter would be aware. Queen was mistaken. The daughter began to think of who was the mother.

(July 6, 2019) Queen Elizabeth had to think of the consequences. To be near the daughter without acknowledging was a risk. Queen must not show preference. The daughter must be as the other ladies in waiting. Queen thought, after a while, this would be as natural. However, Queen was aware of the inclination to show favor in a way that would cause jealousy. Queen had to think, after a while, that Queen must practice never showing favor among the ladies. This was something that Queen took pride in. Eventually, Queen was confident that the daughter would be as one of the ladies without a problem. This happened. The daughter was never revealed as the daughter.

Queen had to imagine that the daughter was aware. This was part of the risk. Queen had no regret. What was done preserved the life of Queen Elizabeth and made possible a long reign that provided stability during a time of turmoil. Queen was not in favor of doing much that was done. Henry advised. The sight often supported the advice. Queen, on Queen’s own, would have acted in a way that brought ruin.

--

Walter Ralegh (father of Anne, daughter of Queen Elizabeth)

(June 17, 2019) Walter was a servant. The Queen was not. The Princess had to be watched. Walter assisted. There must be regular attendance. The people who attended must be observed. Walter was the observer. Walter was paid. There was a price. Everyone understood who the father of the baby was. Walter was not destroyed. Walter had to be as a courtier. This was easy, after Elizabeth became Queen.

(June 19, 2019) Walter had a famous son. Walter has been ignored by history. Perhaps that was for the best. Walter knew, after being the father of the daughter of the Queen, that Walter needed to not be seen. Walter was pleased to retire. The daughter was not of Walters family. The daughter was given to another family as an orphan with an important family lineage. Walter hoped to be able to have some communication with the daughter. This was arranged. The daughter was sent to the home of Walter. This was not as a servant. This was to gain polish. Walter was told that the daughter was told that Walter was a courtier who had retired. The way of the court would be explained. The daughter could then arrive without being ignorant. Walter was pleased to act. The family with the daughter insisted that Walter not reveal as the father.

(July 6, 2019) Walter Ralegh was invisible. The daughter was barely known. Walter was as a benefactor. The family who received was not challenged. The love of the daughter was not had. The family was grateful. So was Walter.

(July 15, 2019) Walter had a decision, when the daughter was of age to marry. Should the daughter marry the son of a courtier? The descent from King Henry would be a badge that attracted. It would attract the wrong type of attention. People would want to corrupt or destroy. Walter reluctantly sought a man without a lineage. This was not difficult. A man who was successful in trade would often want to think of his children having royal blood. A ship captain was found to marry the daughter of the Queen. This was not rejected by the daughter, who did not have a clear idea of her mother as her mother. Walter understood that the Queen briefly observed, which led to the supposition, which in turn brought the daughter to court as a lady in waiting. The Queen never explained the position of Anne. The Queen simply acknowledged and continued treating all as equals. Walter does not think, because of the situation, that Anne had to suffer. The bastard daughter of an important nobleman was an obvious explanation. Anne was willing to leave court and marry, because the alternative was to admit that Anne had no idea as to her father. Walter thought of revealing, but that was fraught with peril, especially as Elizabeth got older. Walter could not expect to live long enough to see grandchildren grow up. Anne was married, and Walter died.
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-23 19:42:17 UTC
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DESCENT FROM QUEEN ELIZABETH

Anne, daughter of Queen Elizabeth

(July 6, 2019) Anne wanted to think of how there was a mystery. The father was unknown. The family was of a good estate. Anne was an orphan. Anne had to not know. Anne hoped that some day there would be a story. Anne thought, when Anne was sixteen, maybe the story would be told. When Anne was sixteen, Anne was brought to court. This was not unusual for a daughter of a high nobleman. Anne had to think that the father of Anne was somebody important. Anne was presented. The Queen took an interest. Anne had to wonder. Why was the Queen so emotional? Anne did not want to think of what began to appear in the mind. The Queen was observing. Anne was unhappy. This should not happen. The Queen was of the kingdom. Anne was somebody’s orphan daughter. Anne was struck by a revelation. Anne was never the same.

(July 15, 2019) Anne never asked. The Queen never acknowledged. Anne was sent to court. The Queen took Anne. There was never any discussion. The Queen simply summoned. Anne was presented and instructed. The other ladies in waiting were correct. Everyone was of the same, in front of the Queen. Anne was simply of a group. Anne never thought, beyond the earlier stunning revelation. This thought should never be allowed in the mind. Anne was appropriate. There was never a problem.

(July 31, 2019) Anne had to think that Anne could have some time together with the Queen. Occasionally, a lady had a special problem. The Queen was able to make time. The Queen was always very busy.

Anne got a feeling. King Henry was in the Queen. Anne realized that King Henry was making all of the decisions. Anne decided to think. King Henry was able to talk. Anne realized that Queen was able to correspond with Anne through King Henry. This was a way to communicate without being noticed. Anne had to always be careful. Anne must not think of Queen in a way that was any different from the other ladies in waiting. Anne had a way of blocking thoughts. This was taught.

Anne had to think. There were men. Each man had the attention of one lady. This was done to help the ladies. Other men sought to approach ladies as a way to gain access to the Queen. Such a man would be blocked by the man who was paying attention to the lady. Anne knew, several of the men were not important. This was as it should be. Important men had many other things to do. One of the men was of a country estate. This man was chosen for Anne. Anne understands that the man found another man to be of the lady that the man was with. This meant that the man in the country estate was always observing Anne.

Anne was recommended. Anne realized that the man was not an ordinary man. The man had an ability. The Queen had the same ability. Anne also had the ability. The sight was in all three. Anne began.

(Aug. 12, 2019) Anne had to act as Anne saw. The man was able to communicate without a letter. Anne was also able. The Queen never did. Anne thought, the Queen was always very private. The Queen had to be above ordinary people. Anne thought, the Queen was in a very lonely position. Then Anne thought, the ladies in waiting were as a family. The Queen was as a mother. This made Anne think differently of what the Queen said. The Queen was always giving helpful advice. This was being motherly. Anne now thought that the Queen was not lonely.

(Nov. 8, 2019) Anne did not have any special relationship with Queen. Anne acted as did the others. The Queen and the ladies were as a group. Anne and one or two would attend in the morning. Others would attend in the evening, when Queen had many men to talk to. The ladies, at first, hoped to be with Queen in the evening. Anne, after realizing that the ladies hoped to find husbands, reconciled with being in the morning. Anne was not being deprived. Many men would be willing to marry a lady-in-waiting of the Queen.

Anne did not have any luck finding a husband. Anne was of an unknown family. Anne, afterward, accepted. At first, Anne longed. Men were unaware at first. Then, the story was told. Anne was a bastard. The family was not stated. This meant, some men thought that Anne might be a cousin or even a sister. Men who looked somewhat like Anne did not approach. Anne did not think that any were related. There was simply no feeling of kinship. Anne accepted, after understanding, that Raleigh was a brother. This came after Anne decided to marry a man who was not a courtier. Richard Wright did not have any connection to the court. Anne was safe.

--

Richard Wright, husband of Anne and father of the younger Richard Wright

(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used] Buying and selling. Shipping. This was everything. Richard was of a family. Richard was raised. The instruction was specific. Richard had to learn to command. This meant that Richard had to learn to obey. There was never any doubt. Richard had a strong way. Obedience came with difficulty. Richard had to conquer pride. Repeatedly. Richard was more or less successful.

(July 15, 2019) Richard had to think. A captain of a ship was always in the way of danger. Ships usually but not always came back. Shipwrecks were often survived. Many died, but not all.

Richard was fortunate. A shipwreck was never part of the life. Richard was not prosperous. Richard had enough and a bit more. Richard was not expecting to be able to find a wife from a good station. Richard was stunned at the proposal that came.

(July 31, 2019) Richard was unable to be anything above. The man who married the daughter of the Queen was not a man who was successful. Richard thought, because of this, there should be a way for the Queen to help. This was never done. Richard had to find a way to survive. This was the only way for the daughter of the Queen to be protected. Richard did well enough. A son was raised. There was enough to set up the son as Richard had been.

(Aug. 12, 2019) Richard had another thought, after thinking of preserving the lineage of the Queen. Richard had to find a way to get the family away from England. Preserving the lineage was of no value if the descendants were corrupted. England was becoming corrupt. Richard thought of listening to a voice that spoke. This voice was from the wife. Richard understood, the voice spoke in the mind of the wife, and the wife, focusing on Richard, made it possible for Richard to listen as well. The voice was of King Henry.

Richard had to think of the will of the King who would not die. This changed the thoughts of Richard, as Richard began to accept that the wife had an ability to preserve the family if Richard was able to accept the decision that the wife gave. Richard understood, the will of the King was behind the decision of the wife. Richard did not understand that the sight is what gave the wife a good decision to preserve Richard and the family.

This became clear later, after a storm was avoided because the wife insisted that Richard delay leaving, even though the client insisted that the product be delivered as quickly as possible. When the client observed the storm, Richard begged forgiveness and spoke of a premonition. The client was not inclined to argue.

(Nov. 8, 2019) Richard had a system. The ship must be prepared at all times. This meant, while in port, repairs had to be taken care of without delay. Some men were inclined to leave. They had been at sea and wanted to be with those left behind. Richard had to insist. A ship that was ready had opportunities. This meant that Richard had a way of being more prepared than some others. This, in time, meant that Richard was able to attract cargo without difficulty. When in port, the ship of Richard was ready.

(Nov. 12, 2019) Richard made enough. The ship was safe. The crew had essentials. Some captains did not have enough for a long voyage. If a storm blew a ship off course, a lack of essentials meant starvation in the long run. With essentials, a ship could recover, perhaps in an unknown land. Richard made one such voyage. The people of the land were not friendly. Richard did not have any profit from that voyage. Richard had enough set aside to be able to continue. A voyage of bad luck was always possible. Two would not ruin, but three would if they were one after the other. Richard had one bad luck voyage. Richard relied on the sight after that. Richard was aware that, because of the sight, Richard would not be very wealthy. The sight was able to help, but only at the cost of not having any opportunity to retire to life as a country gentleman.
genmedieval
2019-11-23 23:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
DESCENT FROM QUEEN ELIZABETH
Anne, daughter of Queen Elizabeth
(July 6, 2019) Anne wanted to think of how there was a mystery. The father was unknown. The family was of a good estate. Anne was an orphan. Anne had to not know. Anne hoped that some day there would be a story. Anne thought, when Anne was sixteen, maybe the story would be told. When Anne was sixteen, Anne was brought to court. This was not unusual for a daughter of a high nobleman. Anne had to think that the father of Anne was somebody important. Anne was presented. The Queen took an interest. Anne had to wonder. Why was the Queen so emotional? Anne did not want to think of what began to appear in the mind. The Queen was observing. Anne was unhappy. This should not happen. The Queen was of the kingdom. Anne was somebody’s orphan daughter. Anne was struck by a revelation. Anne was never the same.
(July 15, 2019) Anne never asked. The Queen never acknowledged. Anne was sent to court. The Queen took Anne. There was never any discussion. The Queen simply summoned. Anne was presented and instructed. The other ladies in waiting were correct. Everyone was of the same, in front of the Queen. Anne was simply of a group. Anne never thought, beyond the earlier stunning revelation. This thought should never be allowed in the mind. Anne was appropriate. There was never a problem.
(July 31, 2019) Anne had to think that Anne could have some time together with the Queen. Occasionally, a lady had a special problem. The Queen was able to make time. The Queen was always very busy.
Anne got a feeling. King Henry was in the Queen. Anne realized that King Henry was making all of the decisions. Anne decided to think. King Henry was able to talk. Anne realized that Queen was able to correspond with Anne through King Henry. This was a way to communicate without being noticed. Anne had to always be careful. Anne must not think of Queen in a way that was any different from the other ladies in waiting. Anne had a way of blocking thoughts. This was taught.
Anne had to think. There were men. Each man had the attention of one lady. This was done to help the ladies. Other men sought to approach ladies as a way to gain access to the Queen. Such a man would be blocked by the man who was paying attention to the lady. Anne knew, several of the men were not important. This was as it should be. Important men had many other things to do. One of the men was of a country estate. This man was chosen for Anne. Anne understands that the man found another man to be of the lady that the man was with. This meant that the man in the country estate was always observing Anne.
Anne was recommended. Anne realized that the man was not an ordinary man. The man had an ability. The Queen had the same ability. Anne also had the ability. The sight was in all three. Anne began.
(Aug. 12, 2019) Anne had to act as Anne saw. The man was able to communicate without a letter. Anne was also able. The Queen never did. Anne thought, the Queen was always very private. The Queen had to be above ordinary people. Anne thought, the Queen was in a very lonely position. Then Anne thought, the ladies in waiting were as a family. The Queen was as a mother. This made Anne think differently of what the Queen said. The Queen was always giving helpful advice. This was being motherly. Anne now thought that the Queen was not lonely.
(Nov. 8, 2019) Anne did not have any special relationship with Queen. Anne acted as did the others. The Queen and the ladies were as a group. Anne and one or two would attend in the morning. Others would attend in the evening, when Queen had many men to talk to. The ladies, at first, hoped to be with Queen in the evening. Anne, after realizing that the ladies hoped to find husbands, reconciled with being in the morning. Anne was not being deprived. Many men would be willing to marry a lady-in-waiting of the Queen.
Anne did not have any luck finding a husband. Anne was of an unknown family. Anne, afterward, accepted. At first, Anne longed. Men were unaware at first. Then, the story was told. Anne was a bastard. The family was not stated. This meant, some men thought that Anne might be a cousin or even a sister. Men who looked somewhat like Anne did not approach. Anne did not think that any were related. There was simply no feeling of kinship. Anne accepted, after understanding, that Raleigh was a brother. This came after Anne decided to marry a man who was not a courtier. Richard Wright did not have any connection to the court. Anne was safe.
--
Richard Wright, husband of Anne and father of the younger Richard Wright
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used] Buying and selling. Shipping. This was everything. Richard was of a family. Richard was raised. The instruction was specific. Richard had to learn to command. This meant that Richard had to learn to obey. There was never any doubt. Richard had a strong way. Obedience came with difficulty. Richard had to conquer pride. Repeatedly. Richard was more or less successful.
(July 15, 2019) Richard had to think. A captain of a ship was always in the way of danger. Ships usually but not always came back. Shipwrecks were often survived. Many died, but not all.
Richard was fortunate. A shipwreck was never part of the life. Richard was not prosperous. Richard had enough and a bit more. Richard was not expecting to be able to find a wife from a good station. Richard was stunned at the proposal that came.
(July 31, 2019) Richard was unable to be anything above. The man who married the daughter of the Queen was not a man who was successful. Richard thought, because of this, there should be a way for the Queen to help. This was never done. Richard had to find a way to survive. This was the only way for the daughter of the Queen to be protected. Richard did well enough. A son was raised. There was enough to set up the son as Richard had been.
(Aug. 12, 2019) Richard had another thought, after thinking of preserving the lineage of the Queen. Richard had to find a way to get the family away from England. Preserving the lineage was of no value if the descendants were corrupted. England was becoming corrupt. Richard thought of listening to a voice that spoke. This voice was from the wife. Richard understood, the voice spoke in the mind of the wife, and the wife, focusing on Richard, made it possible for Richard to listen as well. The voice was of King Henry.
Richard had to think of the will of the King who would not die. This changed the thoughts of Richard, as Richard began to accept that the wife had an ability to preserve the family if Richard was able to accept the decision that the wife gave. Richard understood, the will of the King was behind the decision of the wife. Richard did not understand that the sight is what gave the wife a good decision to preserve Richard and the family.
This became clear later, after a storm was avoided because the wife insisted that Richard delay leaving, even though the client insisted that the product be delivered as quickly as possible. When the client observed the storm, Richard begged forgiveness and spoke of a premonition. The client was not inclined to argue.
(Nov. 8, 2019) Richard had a system. The ship must be prepared at all times. This meant, while in port, repairs had to be taken care of without delay. Some men were inclined to leave. They had been at sea and wanted to be with those left behind. Richard had to insist. A ship that was ready had opportunities. This meant that Richard had a way of being more prepared than some others. This, in time, meant that Richard was able to attract cargo without difficulty. When in port, the ship of Richard was ready.
(Nov. 12, 2019) Richard made enough. The ship was safe. The crew had essentials. Some captains did not have enough for a long voyage. If a storm blew a ship off course, a lack of essentials meant starvation in the long run. With essentials, a ship could recover, perhaps in an unknown land. Richard made one such voyage. The people of the land were not friendly. Richard did not have any profit from that voyage. Richard had enough set aside to be able to continue. A voyage of bad luck was always possible. Two would not ruin, but three would if they were one after the other. Richard had one bad luck voyage. Richard relied on the sight after that. Richard was aware that, because of the sight, Richard would not be very wealthy. The sight was able to help, but only at the cost of not having any opportunity to retire to life as a country gentleman.
Peter Stewart
2019-11-26 02:02:59 UTC
Permalink
On 24-Nov-19 6:42 AM, ***@gmail.com wrote:

<blathersnip>
Post by j***@gmail.com
Richard Wright, husband of Anne and father of the younger Richard Wright
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used]
What word would - or, in your terms, did - Richard use? If you are
explicitly not reporting verbatim whatever the voices tell you, how are
we to trust that any words you post are other than your own imaginings?

Or do you perhaps suppose that SGM readers - most of whom have surely
made sense of Shakespeare and other Elizabethans - are somehow too dense
to comprehend the direct outpourings of their contemporary, the queen's
purported son-in-law?

It is surprising enough to be told of a royal Tudor in-law who was in
trade, without having to learn this from a paraphrase rather than from
the horse's mouth. Are you sure you heard it from the right end of this
horse?

Peter Stewart
taf
2019-11-26 03:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by j***@gmail.com
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used]
What word would - or, in your terms, did - Richard use? If you are
explicitly not reporting verbatim whatever the voices tell you, how are
we to trust that any words you post are other than your own imaginings?
Or do you perhaps suppose that SGM readers - most of whom have surely
made sense of Shakespeare and other Elizabethans - are somehow too dense
to comprehend the direct outpourings of their contemporary, the queen's
purported son-in-law?
Oh, wait, I know this one. We have been told that they do not communicate in their own language, but rather the pronouncements simply pop into his head in his own language. That, he tells us, is why his oeuvre is not in Norman French, Latin, and a progression of English from Middle to Shakespearean, but is instead in modern English of the 'See Dick and Jane go up the hill' variety.

taf
Peter Stewart
2019-11-26 04:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by j***@gmail.com
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used]
What word would - or, in your terms, did - Richard use? If you are
explicitly not reporting verbatim whatever the voices tell you, how are
we to trust that any words you post are other than your own imaginings?
Or do you perhaps suppose that SGM readers - most of whom have surely
made sense of Shakespeare and other Elizabethans - are somehow too dense
to comprehend the direct outpourings of their contemporary, the queen's
purported son-in-law?
Oh, wait, I know this one. We have been told that they do not communicate in their own language, but rather the pronouncements simply pop into his head in his own language. That, he tells us, is why his oeuvre is not in Norman French, Latin, and a progression of English from Middle to Shakespearean, but is instead in modern English of the 'See Dick and Jane go up the hill' variety.
Yes, but I'm interested to hear exactly how an Elizabeth "businessman"
described his occupation. If John Schmeeckle can recall the actual words
he heard, then surely he owes it to posterity to let us all in on this.

If all he heard was a dreamed-up sounding from the hind end of an
imaginary horse, as seems likely to me, then his feeble prevarication
about "not the word that Richard would have used" is just more evidence
(if any is needed) for the willing self-deceit he is wasting his time on.

Peter Stewart
taf
2019-11-26 04:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
Yes, but I'm interested to hear exactly how an Elizabeth "businessman"
described his occupation. If John Schmeeckle can recall the actual words
he heard, then surely he owes it to posterity to let us all in on this.
As I understand it (admittedly hard to keep track of since it has become more elaborate over time as more things needed explaining away), when our necromancer said 'not the word Richard would have used' that was his own gloss ('would have used', rather than 'not the word Richard actually used'). I would go with your 'feeble prevarication' hypothesis.
Post by Peter Stewart
If all he heard was a dreamed-up sounding from the hind end of an
imaginary horse, as seems likely to me, then his feeble prevarication
about "not the word that Richard would have used" is just more evidence
(if any is needed) for the willing self-deceit he is wasting his time on.
There is always the alternative possibility, that the words that impinged on his psyche were indeed 'Richard was a businessman, though this is not the word that Richard would have used" - that in addition to the dead man inexplicably referring to himself in the third person, he is also provided a running commentary on his own linguistic foibles. Maybe we will next hear this ancestor broke into a rendition of 'you say potayto, and Richard says potahto, you say tomayto, and Richard says tomahto, potayto, potahto, tomayto, tomahto,. . . .' (Just doesn't have the same rhythm when done in the third person, does it?)

taf
Peter Stewart
2019-11-26 09:03:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Yes, but I'm interested to hear exactly how an Elizabeth "businessman"
described his occupation. If John Schmeeckle can recall the actual words
he heard, then surely he owes it to posterity to let us all in on this.
As I understand it (admittedly hard to keep track of since it has become more elaborate over time as more things needed explaining away), when our necromancer said 'not the word Richard would have used' that was his own gloss ('would have used', rather than 'not the word Richard actually used'). I would go with your 'feeble prevarication' hypothesis.
Post by Peter Stewart
If all he heard was a dreamed-up sounding from the hind end of an
imaginary horse, as seems likely to me, then his feeble prevarication
about "not the word that Richard would have used" is just more evidence
(if any is needed) for the willing self-deceit he is wasting his time on.
There is always the alternative possibility, that the words that impinged on his psyche were indeed 'Richard was a businessman, though this is not the word that Richard would have used" - that in addition to the dead man inexplicably referring to himself in the third person, he is also provided a running commentary on his own linguistic foibles. Maybe we will next hear this ancestor broke into a rendition of 'you say potayto, and Richard says potahto, you say tomayto, and Richard says tomahto, potayto, potahto, tomayto, tomahto,. . . .' (Just doesn't have the same rhythm when done in the third person, does it?)
In a world where an ex-governor of Texas retiring as secretary of Energy
is capable of hailing Donald Trump as "the chosen one", and where other
idiots are prepared to expose themselves to history's ridicule by
publicly agreeing with him, I suppose we are lucky in SGM to have a
resident nuisance no more toxic and dishonest than John Schmeeckle.

Peter Stewart
taf
2019-11-26 23:43:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
I suppose we are lucky in SGM to have a
resident nuisance no more toxic and dishonest than John Schmeeckle.
It is not like charlatanism isn't something that has infested medieval and royal genealogy from day one. The Tudor reign wouldn't have been nearly as interesting without the occasional Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnel thrown in.

And speaking of charlatans, I was just reading about a Polish guy who claims to be the rightful heir to the Bonny Prince. Apparently 'Prince Michael of Albany' does not recognize his claim to priority, and is quoted as saying that there are about 1500 descendants of James VI and all of them have a better claim than the queen. Not unexpectedly, that is total nonsense because the queen herself is one of the 1500 (or whatever the real number is) descendants of James VI. (He clearly meant James VII, i.e. James II of England.) The other problem is that if you are going to count illegitimate descendants as having a better claim than legitimate collaterals, which you have to do for the supposed Polish line to be valid, then that means James VII himself was not the rightful Charles II's fitzRoys was.

taf
Peter Stewart
2019-11-27 00:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
I suppose we are lucky in SGM to have a
resident nuisance no more toxic and dishonest than John Schmeeckle.
It is not like charlatanism isn't something that has infested medieval and royal genealogy from day one. The Tudor reign wouldn't have been nearly as interesting without the occasional Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnel thrown in.
And speaking of charlatans, I was just reading about a Polish guy who claims to be the rightful heir to the Bonny Prince. Apparently 'Prince Michael of Albany' does not recognize his claim to priority, and is quoted as saying that there are about 1500 descendants of James VI and all of them have a better claim than the queen. Not unexpectedly, that is total nonsense because the queen herself is one of the 1500 (or whatever the real number is) descendants of James VI. (He clearly meant James VII, i.e. James II of England.) The other problem is that if you are going to count illegitimate descendants as having a better claim than legitimate collaterals, which you have to do for the supposed Polish line to be valid, then that means James VII himself was not the rightful Charles II's fitzRoys was.
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today, of whom countless idividuals must be senior by
primogenture to Elizabeth II (not that this matters given the Act of
Succession), and there is no legitimate line of descent at all from
James II/VII, so Michael "of Albany" is talking through a pinched hat -
as usual. Perhaps his proof of legitimacy is on a server in Ukraine.

Peter Stewart
Richard Smith
2019-11-27 22:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today,
This reminds me of a question I've often wondered. Which is the
earliest British monarch with living descendants whose legitimate
descendants are pretty much all known? Queen Victoria's descendants
were researched in some detail by Marlene Eilers and others about thirty
years ago. A generation has passed since then, but there seem to be
people trying to keep the list up to date, so Victoria's legitimate
descendants are probably mostly known. What about George III?

Richard
Peter Stewart
2019-11-27 23:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today,
This reminds me of a question I've often wondered.  Which is the
earliest British monarch with living descendants whose legitimate
descendants are pretty much all known?  Queen Victoria's descendants
were researched in some detail by Marlene Eilers and others about thirty
years ago. A generation has passed since then, but there seem to be
people trying to keep the list up to date, so Victoria's legitimate
descendants are probably mostly known.  What about George III?
Well, evidence may yet emerge that Elizabeth II has undocumented
descendants through at least one of her sons ...

Apart from the impossibility of absolute knowledge where oversexed,
self-indulgent and unintelligent princes are involved, to say nothing of
adulterous princesses, it would be highly surprising if anyone could now
establish a previously-unrecorded legitimate line of descent from James
VI & I.

Legitimate descendants of George III who are not also descended from
Victoria would be almost all European, mostly German, proudly
aristocratic and by their own reckoning notable - such people are not
likely to let posterity forget their existence, and it is fairly easy to
keep up with their progenitive activities on the internet if you can
summon the interest.

Peter Stewart
Richard Smith
2019-11-28 00:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Peter Stewart
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today,
This reminds me of a question I've often wondered.  Which is the
earliest British monarch with living descendants whose legitimate
descendants are pretty much all known?  Queen Victoria's descendants
were researched in some detail by Marlene Eilers and others about thirty
years ago. A generation has passed since then, but there seem to be
people trying to keep the list up to date, so Victoria's legitimate
descendants are probably mostly known.  What about George III?
Well, evidence may yet emerge that Elizabeth II has undocumented
descendants through at least one of her sons ...
Entirely possible, given current revelations, which is why I'm focusing
on legitimate descendants.
Post by Peter Stewart
Apart from the impossibility of absolute knowledge where oversexed,
self-indulgent and unintelligent princes are involved, to say nothing of
adulterous princesses, it would be highly surprising if anyone could now
establish a previously-unrecorded legitimate line of descent from James
VI & I.
Yes, that would seem very unlikely, though I'd be interested to know
whether anyone has produced a comprehensive database of legitimate
descendants of James VI & I to the present day, in the way that's been
done with Victoria. I think that the question I was trying to ask.
Post by Peter Stewart
Legitimate descendants of George III who are not also descended from
Victoria would be almost all European, mostly German, proudly
aristocratic and by their own reckoning notable
Interestingly, you've almost hit on the reason why I was pondering the
question. Almost all descendants of any of the Hanoverian monarchs are
probably aristocratic Europeans, but are there any that aren't? Is
there an Australian sheep farmer on the list? Or a Polish plumber? Or
any sort of tradesman. (For the purpose of this discussion, I don't
consider stock market fraud a trade.) If there are, they are perhaps
more likely to be omitted from the better known sources.

Richard
Peter Stewart
2019-11-28 03:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Smith
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Peter Stewart
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today,
This reminds me of a question I've often wondered.  Which is the
earliest British monarch with living descendants whose legitimate
descendants are pretty much all known?  Queen Victoria's descendants
were researched in some detail by Marlene Eilers and others about thirty
years ago. A generation has passed since then, but there seem to be
people trying to keep the list up to date, so Victoria's legitimate
descendants are probably mostly known.  What about George III?
Well, evidence may yet emerge that Elizabeth II has undocumented
descendants through at least one of her sons ...
Entirely possible, given current revelations, which is why I'm focusing
on legitimate descendants.
Post by Peter Stewart
Apart from the impossibility of absolute knowledge where oversexed,
self-indulgent and unintelligent princes are involved, to say nothing of
adulterous princesses, it would be highly surprising if anyone could now
establish a previously-unrecorded legitimate line of descent from James
VI & I.
Yes, that would seem very unlikely, though I'd be interested to know
whether anyone has produced a comprehensive database of legitimate
descendants of James VI & I to the present day, in the way that's been
done with Victoria.  I think that the question I was trying to ask.
Post by Peter Stewart
Legitimate descendants of George III who are not also descended from
Victoria would be almost all European, mostly German, proudly
aristocratic and by their own reckoning notable
Interestingly, you've almost hit on the reason why I was pondering the
question.  Almost all descendants of any of the Hanoverian monarchs are
probably aristocratic Europeans, but are there any that aren't?  Is
there an Australian sheep farmer on the list?  Or a Polish plumber?  Or
any sort of tradesman.  (For the purpose of this discussion, I don't
consider stock market fraud a trade.)  If there are, they are perhaps
more likely to be omitted from the better known sources.
Social mobility occurs among royal descendants, just as with all others
who are not an exclusive caste.

Years ago a prince from a European sovereign family settled in Melbourne
and caused a flurry of interest from social lion-hunters (even more from
huntresses) until it was discovered that he made his living as an Amway
salesman. In Australian terms that is somewhat more lowly than a sheep
farmer, and I suppose less affluent than most plumbers or other sorts of
tradespeople who are not also financial fraudsters. He certainly wasn't
omitted from reference works, as of course his existence predated his
occupation.

Now and again an Australian labourer will inherit a peerage, usually an
old one (the present earl of Lincoln for instance, who had worked as a
boilermaker). The earl of Loudoun, who is touted as the senior
Plantagenet descendant and rightful English monarch if Edward IV had
been truly illegitimate, is the son of an Australian farmer and tractor
dealer, I think.

50 years ago legitimate descendants of Queen Victoria could fairly
readily calculate their place in the order of succession, but this
number would not be easy to work out today and probably would change
within a week or two anyway. Descendants of George III could probably
not make the same calculation at all, while those of George II would
surely not even think of trying.

Peter Stewart
John Higgins
2019-11-28 00:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Smith
Post by Peter Stewart
The legitimate descent from James VI/I is vastly more than 1500 people
living today,
This reminds me of a question I've often wondered. Which is the
earliest British monarch with living descendants whose legitimate
descendants are pretty much all known? Queen Victoria's descendants
were researched in some detail by Marlene Eilers and others about thirty
years ago. A generation has passed since then, but there seem to be
people trying to keep the list up to date, so Victoria's legitimate
descendants are probably mostly known. What about George III?
Richard
About 15 years ago or so, Daniel Willis published "The Descendants of King George I of Great Britain". It's available on some used-book website - but it's not cheap.

For many years, Paul Theroff has maintained online files of the descendants of King James I and VI. More recently he has a separate file of descendants of Henry VII who are not descendants of James I and VI. See here for details:
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/index.html
Richard Smith
2019-11-28 00:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
About 15 years ago or so, Daniel Willis published "The Descendants of King George I of Great Britain".
It's available on some used-book website - but it's not cheap.
For many years, Paul Theroff has maintained online files of the descendants of King James I and VI.
More recently he has a separate file of descendants of Henry VII who are not descendants of James I
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/index.html
Thanks. These go a long way to answering my question. Do you happen to
know how complete Paul Theroff believes these lists to be?

Richard
John Higgins
2019-11-28 06:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Smith
Post by John Higgins
About 15 years ago or so, Daniel Willis published "The Descendants of King George I of Great Britain".
It's available on some used-book website - but it's not cheap.
For many years, Paul Theroff has maintained online files of the descendants of King James I and VI.
More recently he has a separate file of descendants of Henry VII who are not descendants of James I
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/index.html
Thanks. These go a long way to answering my question. Do you happen to
know how complete Paul Theroff believes these lists to be?
Richard
I have no way of knowing "how complete Paul Theroff believes these lists to be". I last had a need to use the James I and VI list a number of years ago, and I imagine he's been updating the list since then. Perhaps you should address your question to Paul himself - if you can find an email address for him.
John Higgins
2019-11-28 06:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Higgins
Post by Richard Smith
Post by John Higgins
About 15 years ago or so, Daniel Willis published "The Descendants of King George I of Great Britain".
It's available on some used-book website - but it's not cheap.
For many years, Paul Theroff has maintained online files of the descendants of King James I and VI.
More recently he has a separate file of descendants of Henry VII who are not descendants of James I
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/index.html
Thanks. These go a long way to answering my question. Do you happen to
know how complete Paul Theroff believes these lists to be?
Richard
I have no way of knowing "how complete Paul Theroff believes these lists to be". I last had a need to use the James I and VI list a number of years ago, and I imagine he's been updating the list since then. Perhaps you should address your question to Paul himself - if you can find an email address for him.
I just found an email address for Paul, but I won't post it here lest spammers harvest it. Go to http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/gotha.htm and you can locate it about 4 paragraphs up from the end of the page.
Kelsey Jackson Williams
2019-11-28 07:50:03 UTC
Permalink
There's also A.C. Addison's three folio volumes of James VI and I's descendants published in the 1960s or thereabouts (the title escapes me just now). If memory serves, he claimed his list was complete save for the descendants of one seventeenth-century morganatic marriage.

All the best,
Kelsey
Peter Stewart
2019-11-28 12:04:22 UTC
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Post by Kelsey Jackson Williams
There's also A.C. Addison's three folio volumes of James VI and I's descendants published in the 1960s or thereabouts (the title escapes me just now). If memory serves, he claimed his list was complete save for the descendants of one seventeenth-century morganatic marriage.
The title is 'The Royal House of Stuart: The Descendants of King James
VI of Scotland, James I of England', 3 vols (London, 1969-1976).

I've no idea how he could be certain of including everybody -
compilations such as this have to rely for living individuals partly on
questionnaires, and replies don't always come in or necessarily report
the truth. There was a litter of border collie pups listed in several
editions of Debrett as children of a peer of the realm who didn't take
the task seriously.

Peter Stewart
Kelsey Jackson Williams
2019-11-28 17:48:07 UTC
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Thanks for the citation, Peter (and I should additionally add the correction that the author is Arthur Charles *Addington*, not Addison).

I'm not sure that it's such a far-fetched claim to say that, with this or that exception, Addington had recorded all of the legitimate descendants of James VI and I, though I agree that if there's a lack of coverage it would most likely be in the modern era. Again, I don't have a copy of the book to hand but I suspect that as well as questionnaires, he would presumably have had the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels and other more-or-less contemporary reference works to hand.

All the best,
Kelsey
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Kelsey Jackson Williams
There's also A.C. Addison's three folio volumes of James VI and I's descendants published in the 1960s or thereabouts (the title escapes me just now). If memory serves, he claimed his list was complete save for the descendants of one seventeenth-century morganatic marriage.
The title is 'The Royal House of Stuart: The Descendants of King James
VI of Scotland, James I of England', 3 vols (London, 1969-1976).
I've no idea how he could be certain of including everybody -
compilations such as this have to rely for living individuals partly on
questionnaires, and replies don't always come in or necessarily report
the truth. There was a litter of border collie pups listed in several
editions of Debrett as children of a peer of the realm who didn't take
the task seriously.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
2019-11-28 21:27:31 UTC
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Post by Kelsey Jackson Williams
Thanks for the citation, Peter (and I should additionally add the correction that the author is Arthur Charles *Addington*, not Addison).
I'm not sure that it's such a far-fetched claim to say that, with this or that exception, Addington had recorded all of the legitimate descendants of James VI and I, though I agree that if there's a lack of coverage it would most likely be in the modern era. Again, I don't have a copy of the book to hand but I suspect that as well as questionnaires, he would presumably have had the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels and other more-or-less contemporary reference works to hand.
And how do you suppose the Genealogisches Handbuch obtained information
about obscure living people except by sending out questionnaires?

One trouble with absolutely complete tracking of contemporary
descendants is that German, Italian and other European noble familes
have different "house" rules for acceptable marriages, and there can be
various reasons for a distant relative wishing to conceal a perfectly
legal union from the head of the family. One branch of the Bourbons
famously drew guns on each other not long ago over a family squabble - I
wouldn't rely on self-report as the perfect way to ensure that everyone
is recorded correctly.

Peter Stewart
Kelsey Jackson Williams
2019-11-29 08:35:36 UTC
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Dear Peter,

That's fair enough and I see your point, though as a matter of clarification I think the GHdA articles, at least towards the end of its run, tended to be written wholesale by members of the family rather than by the editors. That raises a different set of questions about reliability, of course!

All the best,
Kelsey
j***@gmail.com
2019-11-28 02:24:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by j***@gmail.com
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used]
What word would - or, in your terms, did - Richard use? If you are
explicitly not reporting verbatim whatever the voices tell you, how are
we to trust that any words you post are other than your own imaginings?
Or do you perhaps suppose that SGM readers - most of whom have surely
made sense of Shakespeare and other Elizabethans - are somehow too dense
to comprehend the direct outpourings of their contemporary, the queen's
purported son-in-law?
Oh, wait, I know this one. We have been told that they do not communicate in their own language, but rather the pronouncements simply pop into his head in his own language. That, he tells us, is why his oeuvre is not in Norman French, Latin, and a progression of English from Middle to Shakespearean, but is instead in modern English of the 'See Dick and Jane go up the hill' variety.
Yes, but I'm interested to hear exactly how an Elizabeth "businessman"
described his occupation. If John Schmeeckle can recall the actual words
he heard, then surely he owes it to posterity to let us all in on this.
The phrase that entered my mind was "had a business." I recognized this as unlikely to be the way that Richard Wright actually spoke or thought, and questioned him about it, and he asked me to go ahead and use "business," so I did. Richard Wright says that what he thought translated in a way that is not similar.
Peter Stewart
2019-11-28 03:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by taf
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by j***@gmail.com
(July 5, 2019) Richard had a business. [Not the word that Richard would have used]
What word would - or, in your terms, did - Richard use? If you are
explicitly not reporting verbatim whatever the voices tell you, how are
we to trust that any words you post are other than your own imaginings?
Or do you perhaps suppose that SGM readers - most of whom have surely
made sense of Shakespeare and other Elizabethans - are somehow too dense
to comprehend the direct outpourings of their contemporary, the queen's
purported son-in-law?
Oh, wait, I know this one. We have been told that they do not communicate in their own language, but rather the pronouncements simply pop into his head in his own language. That, he tells us, is why his oeuvre is not in Norman French, Latin, and a progression of English from Middle to Shakespearean, but is instead in modern English of the 'See Dick and Jane go up the hill' variety.
Yes, but I'm interested to hear exactly how an Elizabeth "businessman"
described his occupation. If John Schmeeckle can recall the actual words
he heard, then surely he owes it to posterity to let us all in on this.
The phrase that entered my mind was "had a business." I recognized this as unlikely to be the way that Richard Wright actually spoke or thought, and questioned him about it, and he asked me to go ahead and use "business," so I did. Richard Wright says that what he thought translated in a way that is not similar.
This doesn't answer my question.

How did the phrase "had a business" enter your mind if this was not
communicated by the spirit of Richard Wright? If he understood your
wording, why did you both decide that readers would perhaps not
understand his?

If he said he was a merchant, for instance, this is hardly double-Dutch,
and whatever he would have said in his own words SGM readers are not
entirely strangers to antiquated usages anyway.

Peter Stewart
j***@gmail.com
2019-12-10 18:03:11 UTC
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SECOND DESCENT FROM KING HENRY VIII

Anne, mistress of King Henry VIII, mother of Christian, and daughter of John Basset (and step-daughter of Arthur Plantagenet, uncle of King Henry VIII)

(July 5, 2019) Anne was the mistress. Anne understood that the mistress did not last long. If the mistress got pregnant before being discarded, the mistress might have a long life. The mother of a daughter would be cared for. A mother of a son would be treated with respect. The King did not treat people with respect. Occasionally foreigners were respected. Usually they were as anyone else. The King overpowered. The King was unable to be aware of how he did.

(July 15, 2019) Anne had to think. There was another. Anne understood. A pregnant mistress was unable to keep the attention of the King. Anne would be provided for. If Anne bore a son, there would be favor. Anne bore a daughter. There was no more.

(July 31, 2019) Anne had a difficulty. There was never enough. The King provided. There was a way to make a mess. Anne was tempted to live in the style of a courtier. This could not be done, if Anne wanted to have enough for the daughter. Anne hoped that the daughter would be able to be as a courtier. This was never possible. Anne had to simply accept, there would never be a way.

(Aug. 12, 2019) Anne had to give up a dream. There would never be a husband. Anne understood, because of the daughter, there would not be a man who was willing. The daughter of King Henry would be too much for a man to dare to be near. Anne hoped, but there was nobody.

A man from court was responsible for an effort. A husband would be able to have influence, if the man was able to continue at court while Anne and the baby were away. Anne had to agree that the daughter would not be at court. King Henry had to not be distracted. This was something that Anne realized was part of the decision. A husband would want to use the influence of a daughter of the King. This made it impossible to find a husband, except for a man who would not be acceptable. King Henry must not have a worry of being attacked by people who used a daughter as a target.

--

Christian (daughter of Anne and King Henry VIII)

(Aug. 12, 2019) Christian was the daughter of a man who was invisible. Christian learned from Mother that Father was away. Christian then learned that Father had to stay away. Christian wanted to think that Father would be pleased to understand that Christian was a good girl. Anne was unable to tell Christian that Father would be pleased. Christian had to think that there was something different that Christian did not understand. Later, Christian began to understand what a bastard meant. Christian had to ask if Christian was a bastard.

Anne cried. Christian did not receive a response. Christian hoped that Anne would explain. Christian wanted to know who Father was. This was something that Christian had a dream about, after Christian started to pray every night. Father was in a dream. Father said, Father cannot ever be with Christian. Father wants Christian to be a good girl. Father will be able to talk to Christian after Father dies. This was something that Christian had to think about. Anne did not want to hear about the dream.

Christian hoped that Anne would talk about how to talk to a man after the man died. Christian did not get an answer. Anne simply was silent. Christian understood that Anne had to wait. There would be an explanation in a future time. Christian did not think of asking anyone else. Anne was the only person that Christian trusted with questions about how life worked.

Christian did not think, after talking to Anne, that Christian would have enough. Christian realized, because of something that Anne said about how Father provided, that Christian would not have enough to have a proper marriage. That was something that Christian began to think about. How much was enough? What type of marriage was proper?

Christian had to accept, if Anne was not going to talk, Christian would have to begin to ask other people. Christian thought of being with a friend. Christian did not know any other girl. Christian just stayed at home with Mother. On Sundays Anne took Christian to mass. This was the only time that Christian was allowed to go out of the house. Christian had to think of talking to another girl on Sunday.

(Nov. 16, 2019) Christian learned. Men and women make children. Christian had a father who made Christian with Anne. Christian had to ask. Was father the husband of Anne? Christian was slapped. Christian was never hit before. Christian did not accept that the question was a bad one. Christian did not accept that Anne refused to talk.

(Nov. 19, 2019) Christian did not think of anything except how to find answers. The life of Christian was one of being prepared to be a wife. Christian needed education. Christian had to understand proper behavior. Christian wanted to be with other girls. The mother of Christian did not allow. Christian must not be seen. This was something that the mother said once without thinking. Christian had to wonder. The mother refused to explain.

(Nov. 21, 2019) Christian was given to a man without a respectable father. Anne explained. Christian already suspected. A king could not be acknowledged. Christian must always be as an orphan. Christian understood that Anne was compelled, to keep the money that maintained.

Christian had no interest in asking more. Christian now had a husband. The man acted for the good of the Earl of Westmorland. Christian observed. The man looked exactly like the Earl. Christian understood that Christian should not ask or say what was clear. Christian and a child were properly cared for.

--

Neville, son of Henry Neville, 5th Earl of Westmorland by Margaret, bastard daughter of Lewis Pollard; husband of Christian, and father of Anne, wife of the younger Richard Wright

(Nov. 16, 2019) Neville had a life of comfort. Neville had a function. The will was of the father. Neville acted without thinking about right or wrong. Neville was able to be as a trusted servant. Neville did not give any reason for mistrust.

Neville was able to have a wife with royal blood. This was something that Neville did not think of. The wife was the daughter of a mistress of the King. Neville thought, because of the blood of King Henry, the father of Neville wanted to make sure that no other family brought the daughter to them. Neville, the family, was kin to the King. As Neville understood, no other family was, except Grey.

(Nov. 21, 2019) Neville, after being married, was given more responsibility. Neville had a daughter. The child must be protected and maintained. Neville had to think of a consequence if the father of Neville ever mistrusted. Neville had to obey, without question and without thought.

--

Anne, daughter of Neville and Christian, and wife of Richard Wright (younger)

(Dec. 3, 2019) Anne was the daughter of a man who had a famous name. Anne did not have any way of being with the father. Anne understood. Neville was not a man. Neville did as the father commanded. Neville must not have a feeling for a daughter. Neville was able to think of being good when the daughter was ready to marry. Neville was never part of the life of Anne.

(Dec. 4, 2019) Anne thought, because of what happened, Neville and Anne were not allowed to be as father and daughter. Anne, because of Neville, was eligible to marry. Anne, because of Neville, was not eligible to marry a man of high station. Anne, because of the need to marry, had to think of possibilities.

Anne needed. There had to be enough. A house needed. Things to wear. Things to put on the walls. Things for the kitchen. A room to receive guests needed to have a place to sit. Anne thought, all of this was not necessary. Anne, after listening to Christian, realized, all of this was necessary to be a person who was socially respected.

(Dec. 6, 2019) Anne needed. There was no way for Christian to provide. A husband must want. Or, a husband must be helped. Christian was receiving from a man from court. The man understood. Anne needed a husband. This meant, Anne needed a dowry. The man did not provide. The husband was able to benefit in trade. Anne brought benefit in trade as the dowry. The husband was not very successful. The husband always had enough.

--

Richard Wright, husband of Anne and son of Richard Wright by Anne, daughter of Queen Elizabeth (see earlier post)

(Nov. 12, 2019) Richard Wright was a captain of a ship. Richard was also the owner. If the owner was also the captain, the owner was able to pay a salary from the profit. The owner was always suspected. Richard had to be careful. Richard always made a point of informing one or two of the officers about the terms of the trade.

Richard was not unfortunate. Richard did not think beyond the information that men had about weather. This was always a favorite topic.

(Nov. 19, 2019) Richard had a single daughter. The daughter made the wife respectable. A man must have a wife. A man without a wife was not respected. A captain had to be respected. Richard, after marrying, got a child on the wife. This was another requirement to be respected.

Richard now was seen to maintain a family. Richard had a home to visit. The wife was not a bad woman. Richard understood, the wife had a lineage that was of the same as the lineage of Richard. Richard, after marrying, did not think of this. The lineage must not be mentioned. The man who approached with the offer to marry the woman was of a family that could not be denied. Richard had a feeling of not being in danger. Neville, while disrespected for being Catholic, was a powerful family. A bastard of Neville for a father-in-law was a way to think that Richard had a connection, without having to mention the lineage from the royal family.

Richard was able to find a husband for the daughter. This was not difficult. Burnham wanted to be established. Burnham had no fortune in the family. Richard was able to persuade the father of the wife to give enough for Burnham to start in a new land. Richard thinks that the father of the wife did not willingly support. Richard understood that Neville was weakening. Neville had no way to benefit from arranging the marriage of a girl who had the blood of kings. Neville had to imagine preserving a lineage for the future. This was not possible in England.

Richard imagines that Neville never found a way to get information about the descendants of the daughter. Richard had to be under an obligation to never talk about the origin of the family. Richard was with the ship. The wife accompanied the daughter. Richard made a voyage every sixth year to the land of the daughter. The wife passed away before Richard returned. The daughter and her husband had a family. A lineage of the King and of the Queen would continue. Richard had the satisfaction of knowing.
--
Anne Wright, daughter of Richard Wright (younger) and wife Anne

(May 17, 2019) Anne was a woman with a lineage. Anne had two descents from the King. One was from the Queen.

(May 19, 2019) Anne understood that Anne should not mention her lineage. This was something to be shared cautiously. The royal lineage was something that Anne understood could bring unwanted attention. Anne had to be careful. Anne also understood, people who knew observed. Anne was someone who needed to be closely watched. This made Anne nervous. Why watch unless people thought of doing harm?

(May 24, 2019) Anne did not think. The offer of a husband was hoped for. Anne had to assume that the husband was of good breeding. The man had enough. The man was not of a lineage. This was not a consideration.

(May 25, 2019) Anne had an expectation. The husband intended to go to the New World. Anne intended to live in comfort. The husband had to arrange to bring what a lady expected. This was not difficult. Anne was the daughter of the master of a ship. The ship brought Anne and her husband to Connecticut.

(May 27, 2019) Anne understood. There was no way to avoid. Connecticut was outside the reach of England. This meant that England could not observe unless as a guest. Anne understood that there were people who came to Connecticut later. They chose Connecticut because Connecticut did not recognize England. This meant Anne could be safe. The lineage was not a problem. Anne had to think, the lineage was not quite a curse.

(May 30, 2019) Anne had to think of what her family would think. Anne was going to the New World. This was not a bad plan. Anne knew that her parents always worried. Anne knew, because both parents descended from King Henry VIII, the children of Anne would be closely watched. Anne hoped, as Anne left, that another life would make this unnecessary. Anne never had a feeling of being watched in Connecticut.

(May 31, 2019) Anne knew. There was a man. In Connecticut, the King had a man. Perhaps the man was the man of a lord. Anne thought, the man was in Connecticut to help the King. The man would not do anything about Anne. The man probably did not know Anne. Anne hoped that Anne and the family were not well known in Connecticut. Anne thought it must be impossible. Anne also hoped, Anne would be helped by her husband. Burnham was not connected to the court. Burnham had no royal connection. Anne was the wife of a new colonist. Anne was nobody.

(June 4, 2019) Anne had a life of comfort. Anne had a servant. The servant helped. Anne expected to work. Anne expected to not work as much.

(June 6, 2019) Anne had a good life. Anne had a husband who was attentive and a good provider. Anne had enough to present an image of a good woman of good estate. This was noticed.

(June 10, 2019) Anne did not think of being talked to. Anne did not talk to the parents. There was no reason. Anne simply lived as a wife and mother. Anne had no thought of more. Now, Anne is part of a lineage. Ancestors talk back and forth. Anne has two connections to the King and Queen of England. This is unusual. This gives Anne the opportunity to share important news.

(June 12, 2019) Anne hopes that the lineage of Anne will become better known. Anne thinks, eventually, descendants will be willing to talk. Anne thinks that it is important for descendants to learn the rule of always being respectful. Anne thinks, the descendant who is recording has failed two or three times. Anne thinks, each time, the descendant was apologetic. This failed. Once respect has been withdrawn, an ancestor is unlikely to speak. Anne believes that the failure was from lack of appreciation of the style that the ancestor was hoping to emulate. This made the descendant fear that the word that the ancestor used would not be read in a way that people expected. This made the descendant fearful that people would mock. Anne is aware that in the time of the descendant, people are not allowed to talk openly about communicating with ancestors. Anne expects, if the descendant does not fail, that this will change.

(June 16, 2019) Anne wanted to say two more things. Now Anne has thought of three more.

Anne knew, after Anne died, that Anne was able to watch. Anne watched. One after another, the lines of the sons disappeared. Anne thinks that Josiah has descendants. Anne isn’t sure. Anne thinks that all of the brothers of Josiah’s father have no descendants named Burnham. Anne might be mistaken. The family did not increase.

(June 20, 2019) Anne did not expect to have so much to say. Anne listens to other ancestors. This gives Anne ideas of what might be of interest. Anne hopes that the following story is interesting:
Anne was unable to be a good member of the church. The husband was arguing with the colony. The husband went to church. Not going to church was a crime. The husband was not religious. The husband did not disbelieve. Anne thought, if there was not a law about going to church, the husband might go anyway. Anne wasn’t sure.

(June 24, 2019) Anne had to think, before Anne died, that three daughters would have an effect. Anne foresaw. There would be few of Burnham. There would be many from the lineages of daughters and granddaughters. Anne hoped that a granddaughter would communicate. Anne also hoped, a grandson would have a daughter who communicated. Anne did not receive either one. Anne now has something much different. People can communicate with the King and the Queen. Anne is one of the links that make the communication possible. Anne has gotten to know six living descendants since the man who is recording began. This has resulted in Burnham being given more attention. Anne is pleased to think that John will add the stories of Anne and husband soon.
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