Discussion:
Thomas father of Roger Corbet of Leigh
(too old to reply)
w***@gmail.com
2017-01-25 19:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Among the recently transcribed Feet of Fines for Shropshire there is one concerning Roger Corbet of Leigh, who is stated to have been the son of a Thomas Corbet of Caus:

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_194_9.shtml#57
CP 25/1/194/9, number 57:
Date: One week from Holy Trinity, 11 Edward II [25 June 1318].
Parties: Roger, son of Thomas Corbet of Caus, querent, and Thomas Hager, impedient.
Property: The manor of Leghe by Worthyn.

Can anyone help identify this Thomas Corbet? There is evidence of a Thomas Corbet of this period who was granted the manor of Beddington, Surrey:

“The King has granted to Thomas Corbet his groom in fee, the Manor of Bedyngton Co Surrey by the service of one crossbow of the price of 12/.”… We find the receipt of the annual payment for the cross-bow recorded in the Pipe Rolls. There is one in 1320, telling us that Thomas Corbet and heirs owe one cross-bow or 12s. a year at the Feast of Pentecost… Thomas died shortly after this record, and his son Thomas had the Manor duly handed over to him as his Father’s heir “By King’s Writ.”” [1]

He was succeeded at Beddington by another Thomas Corbet, but I wonder if this second Thomas might have been a younger son? In a grant of 1327 there is solid evidence that Roger Corbet of Leigh was the brother of Peter Corbet of Hope, Shropshire:

“John Corbet, lord of Leghtone, Roger Corbet, knight, Peter Corbet, his brother” [2]

According to ‘The Family of Corbet’ (pp. 174-5), Peter of Hope was the male heir of William Corbet of Chaddesley and because of this was thought to have been his younger brother. This fine proves that the relationship was more distant, though my guess is that they were all descendants of William of Chaddesley (d. 1262-66) and his wife Ada (d. 1291).

Through Google Books searches I have also found references to a Thomas (or Thomelin) Corbet, son of Simon Corbet, both of whom were falconers to King Edward I:

“In October [1285] Simon Corbet and his son were sent to John de Brabant with seven lanners caught over the summer, four dogs and a dogkeeper. They remained with John and rejoined the court with him during the Christmas season.” [3]

“To Thomas, son of Simon Corbet, for a quartern of charcoal bought to burn for four days for one gyr-falcon of the king that was ill. .16d.” [4]

Thomas was also known as Thomelin:

“On the second occasion, the king first of all sent Thomelin, son of Simon Corbet, who made oblations to the value of sixpence ; then he caused a waxen figure of the bird to be presented; and, lastly, despatched Thomelin with the bird itself...” [5]

Could Thomas (or Thomelin) Corbet the falconer be the same man as Thomas Corbet of Beddington? And is there any other evidence regarding the identity of Thomas Corbet, father of Roger of Leigh and Peter of Hope?


[1] ‘The Family of Corbet’, VOL 2, p. 171

[2] ‘Transactions of Shropshire’, VOL XI, p. 419 (1888)

[3] ‘The Kings and their Hawks: Falconry in Medieval England’, p. 99, by Robin S. Oggins (2004)

[4] ‘The Gentleman’s Magazine’, p. 181 (1879)

[5] ‘Hereford’, p. 92, by Henry Wright Phillott (1888)
w***@gmail.com
2018-06-21 08:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_194_9.shtml#57
Date: One week from Holy Trinity, 11 Edward II [25 June 1318].
Parties: Roger, son of Thomas Corbet of Caus, querent, and Thomas Hager, impedient.
Property: The manor of Leghe by Worthyn.
“The King has granted to Thomas Corbet his groom in fee, the Manor of Bedyngton Co Surrey by the service of one crossbow of the price of 12/.”… We find the receipt of the annual payment for the cross-bow recorded in the Pipe Rolls. There is one in 1320, telling us that Thomas Corbet and heirs owe one cross-bow or 12s. a year at the Feast of Pentecost… Thomas died shortly after this record, and his son Thomas had the Manor duly handed over to him as his Father’s heir “By King’s Writ.”” [1]
“John Corbet, lord of Leghtone, Roger Corbet, knight, Peter Corbet, his brother” [2]
According to ‘The Family of Corbet’ (pp. 174-5), Peter of Hope was the male heir of William Corbet of Chaddesley and because of this was thought to have been his younger brother. This fine proves that the relationship was more distant, though my guess is that they were all descendants of William of Chaddesley (d. 1262-66) and his wife Ada (d. 1291).
“In October [1285] Simon Corbet and his son were sent to John de Brabant with seven lanners caught over the summer, four dogs and a dogkeeper. They remained with John and rejoined the court with him during the Christmas season.” [3]
“To Thomas, son of Simon Corbet, for a quartern of charcoal bought to burn for four days for one gyr-falcon of the king that was ill. .16d.” [4]
“On the second occasion, the king first of all sent Thomelin, son of Simon Corbet, who made oblations to the value of sixpence ; then he caused a waxen figure of the bird to be presented; and, lastly, despatched Thomelin with the bird itself...” [5]
Could Thomas (or Thomelin) Corbet the falconer be the same man as Thomas Corbet of Beddington? And is there any other evidence regarding the identity of Thomas Corbet, father of Roger of Leigh and Peter of Hope?
[1] ‘The Family of Corbet’, VOL 2, p. 171
[2] ‘Transactions of Shropshire’, VOL XI, p. 419 (1888)
[3] ‘The Kings and their Hawks: Falconry in Medieval England’, p. 99, by Robin S. Oggins (2004)
[4] ‘The Gentleman’s Magazine’, p. 181 (1879)
[5] ‘Hereford’, p. 92, by Henry Wright Phillott (1888)
I have come back to this question and come to the conclusion that Sir Roger Corbet of Leigh and his brother Sir Peter Corbet of Hope must have been sons of Thomas Corbet of Caus (d. 1295), elder son of Peter Corbet, 1st Baron Corbet of Caus. This Thomas was married to Agnes Plunkenet and died without legitimate issue. But two pieces of evidence show that he had two illegitimate sons:

Firstly, the fine I discussed in my previous message:

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_194_9.shtml#57
CP 25/1/194/9, number 57.
County: Shropshire.
Place: Westminster.
Date: One week from Holy Trinity, 11 Edward II [25 June 1318].
Parties: Roger, son of Thomas Corbet of Caus, querent, and Thomas Hager, impedient.
Property: The manor of Leghe by Worthyn.

And secondly:

‘The Family of Corbet’, VOL 2, p. 174
https://archive.org/stream/familyofcorbetit02corb#page/n33/mode/2up
“Know all present and to come that I, Peter Corbet lord of Caus have given and granted by this my present Charter confirmed to my beloved Nephew Roger Corbet all the chief custody of the whole bailiwick of my whole Forest etc. . . . of all our chaces, parks, and of all our foreign woods, of all our lordships of Caus, with all the fees and profits to it pertaining together with all the reversion of the custody of the forsts chaces, parks, and all other woods which the Lady Alice Corbet holds in Dower of our inheritance when it shall befall… dated at Cawres on Sunday next after the Feast of the Annunciation of St Mary in the Fifth year of the reign of Edward son of King Edward [26 March 1312].”

To my mind this is conclusive evidence that Roger and Peter were the illegitimate sons of the elder brother of Peter, 2nd Baron Corbet of Caus.

In ‘The Family of Corbet’, VOL 2, Augusta Corbet concluded that 'beloved Nephew' should not be taken literally. She gave two reasons for her line of thinking:

1. The Corbets of Leigh did not succeed to the barony of Caus.

Obviously they couldn't if they were illegitimate.

2. Her assumption that Peter Corbet of Hope (brother of Roger Corbet of Leigh) was the heir male of William Corbet of Chaddesley Corbet.

But her only evidence for making Peter the heir of William is an entry in the close rolls in 1328 (‘The Family of Corbet’, VOL 2, p. 174) “Enrolment of Grant by William Corbet of Chaddesleye to Sir Peter Corbet of Caus, of £200 of yearly rent from his manor of Chaddesleye.”

William Corbet of Chaddesley (abt 1280-aft Feb 1351) was the great grandson of Robert Corbet of Caus (d. bef 17 Oct 1222), so he would have been the second cousin once removed of Sir Roger Corbet of Leigh and Sir Peter Corbet of Hope. I see the Chaddesley grant as evidence of a close relationship but nothing more.

Thoughts?

Will Acton
e***@gmail.com
2018-08-01 22:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Will,

Thank you for posting your research notes on Thomas Corbet. I ran across information on Geni where researchers though he or his father "Thomas" was Sheriff, I will be working on verifying this link.

Elizabeth

Loading...