Discussion:
Dernell was her name, Hoo was her spouse, but who was her father?
(too old to reply)
dav4is
2007-09-13 23:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Sources mention that Alexander Hoo (d. 8 Mar 1241/42 Isle of Rhodes)
was married to one Dernell or Darvogilda of Scotland, daughter of
(Alexander) the King of Scotland.

Assuming this to be Alexander II, no mention is found of a daughter by
this name.

So: Who was she?

Alexander II had an illegitimate daughter Marjorie by an unknown
mistress.

Could the mistress be Isabel of Atholl, 4° Ctss Atholl? (as claimed by
several web pages)

Could this Dernell be a second illegitimate daughter by Isabel?

-R.
WJhonson
2007-09-14 00:28:55 UTC
Permalink
<<In a message dated 09/13/07 16:05:15 Pacific Standard Time, ***@yahoo.com writes:
Sources mention that Alexander Hoo (d. 8 Mar 1241/42 Isle of Rhodes)
was married to one Dernell or Darvogilda of Scotland, daughter of
(Alexander) the King of Scotland. >>

----------------------------

Please specify exactly what source you are using.
Thanks
Will Johnson
dav4is
2007-09-18 08:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by dav4is
Sources mention that Alexander Hoo (d. 8 Mar 1241/42 Isle of Rhodes)
was married to one Dernell or Darvogilda of Scotland, daughter of
(Alexander) the King of Scotland. >>
----------------------------
Please specify exactly what source you are using.
Thanks
Will Johnson
Hi,
Stirnet, among others: http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/hh4bz/hoo1.htm
Other published sources listed here: http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/300/data/12

-R.
W***@aol.com
2007-09-19 06:06:32 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 9/18/2007 1:20:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
<<In a message dated 09/13/07 16:05:15 Pacific Standard Time,
Sources mention that Alexander Hoo (d. 8 Mar 1241/42 Isle of Rhodes)
was married to one Dernell or Darvogilda of Scotland, daughter of
(Alexander) the King of Scotland. >>
Stirnet, among others:
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/hh4bz/hoo1.htm
Other published sources listed here:
_http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/300/data/12_ (http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/300/data/12)



======================
Firstly note that Stirnet states its source as Visitation and they state
they doubt it.
Secondly the sources cited at gen circles are possibilities but note that
they are quoted and the quotes provide NO authority for the alleged connection.
They merely state it, on no authority.

Most likely the underlying authority for all these sources, would then be
that same Visitation, which would be a faulty source for something occurring
three or four centuries previously.

Since there is no apparent mention of this relationship in a contemporary
source, it should be discarded entirely.

Will Johnson



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Michael Rochester
2021-04-29 03:16:20 UTC
Permalink
This is an old post, and I was wondering aloud about it too...it seems the late Richard Brenneman of NEHGS seems to believe it. He was published a lot in genealogical literature. He may NOT be 100% correct here, but he seems to not discount it.

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/464592-genealogical-miscellanies-updates-revisions-essays-ahnentafel-other-genealogical-diversions?viewer=1&offset=12#page=7&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=

Here are some other books alleging the descent: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_and_Antiquities_of_Horsham/pPQVAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22alexander+hoo%22+scotland&pg=PA61&printsec=frontcover

This raises some "red flags" but again, does not discount the descent from Alexander II: Sussex Archaeological Collections Relating to the History and Antiquities of the County
By Sussex Archaeological Society · 1902
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sussex_Archaeological_Collections_Relati/fMhCAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22alexander+hoo%22+scotland&pg=PA192&printsec=frontcover

So, it is not an issue of resolution, but there is not a lot of literature affirming or disputing the relationship between Dernell and Alexander II of Scotland
Pam Delamare
2021-05-03 20:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Lady Dervergulla de Balliolo is in the IPM 18 Ed 1 (1289) and her son and heir is John Balliol.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol2/pp467-479#highlight-first

She is also in the IPM of John de la Mare regarding land at Hitchin, Herts and his son John de la Mare 6 Ed 1 (1276) holding land at Offley, Herts.
Also in the IPM of Peter de la Mare (1248-1292) of Market Lavington, Wilts; holding Offley, Herts , part of which is held of John de Balliol.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol3/pp30-54

John de Balliol (b abt 1208-1286) m Devorgilla of Galloway, d/o Alan, Lord Galloway & Margaret of Huntington. Dervorgilla's family was wealthy.

Pam
Pam Delamare
2021-05-03 22:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Oooops, please ignore my post. I've re-read the previous info and I am off base. Thank you.
Peter Stewart
2021-05-04 05:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pam Delamare
Lady Dervergulla de Balliolo is in the IPM 18 Ed 1 (1289) and her son and heir is John Balliol.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol2/pp467-479#highlight-first
She is also in the IPM of John de la Mare regarding land at Hitchin, Herts and his son John de la Mare 6 Ed 1 (1276) holding land at Offley, Herts.
Also in the IPM of Peter de la Mare (1248-1292) of Market Lavington, Wilts; holding Offley, Herts , part of which is held of John de Balliol.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol3/pp30-54
John de Balliol (b abt 1208-1286) m Devorgilla of Galloway, d/o Alan, Lord Galloway & Margaret of Huntington. Dervorgilla's family was wealthy.
Since this family has come up, does anyone know where the dating to
before April 1236 of the marriage of Christian (Alan of Galloway's
daughter born before Devorguilla) came from in CP vol. 1 p. 355?

No authority was cited, and I wonder where any mention was found of this
marriage before the death of Christian's maternal uncle John, earl of
Chester, in 1237. Very soon after his death William de Forz and
Christian tried to inherit the earldom, litigating from July 1237 until
denied in the following year, but this process is the earliest
documentation I've seen cited for them as a married couple.

They were almost certainly married by 1233, as in that year Alan
arranged for Christian's younger sister to marry John Balliol. In *The
Lordship of Galloway* (2000) Richard Oram wrote (p. 147): "The order of
the marriages of Alan's daughters and the status of their husbands is
[sic] an indication of their order of seniority. Before 1234 Helen
married one of the greatest Anglo-Scottish landholders of the day, Roger
de Quincy ... No date is recorded for the marriage of Christina, but it
occurred before Alan's death", and (p. 134): "In 1233, amongst his last
recorded acts, Alan arranged the marriage of his youngest daughter,
Dervorgilla, to John Balliol of Barnard Castle, and of his sister, Ada,
to Walter Bisset, lord of Aboyne".

Peter Stewart

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...