Discussion:
Lyons of Warkworth
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P***@aol.com
2013-06-23 22:53:35 UTC
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What is known of the genealogy of Elizabeth Lyons, wife of Richard Wydville
v 1310-1378.

Whilst the county histories provide admirable mish mashes of the Lyons
family and the internet is full of fanciful genealogies i can find little that
has adequate sources for this influential family.


Peter
wjhonson
2013-06-23 23:28:41 UTC
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Post by P***@aol.com
What is known of the genealogy of Elizabeth Lyons, wife of Richard Wydville
v 1310-1378.
Whilst the county histories provide admirable mish mashes of the Lyons
family and the internet is full of fanciful genealogies i can find little that
has adequate sources for this influential family.
Peter
http://books.google.com/books?id=wic3AAAAMAAJ&dq=elizabeth%20lyons%20wydeville&pg=PA435#v=onepage&q=elizabeth%20lyons%20wydeville&f=true
CE Wood
2013-06-24 00:37:09 UTC
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See also _Lyon Memorial: New York Families_ found at http://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial00mill#page/12/

Her patents were Sir John de Lyons of Warkworth, Northants and Alice de St. Liz. See Leo's site for pedigrees of Elizabeth, at http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00333002&tree=LEO


CE Wood
Post by P***@aol.com
What is known of the genealogy of Elizabeth Lyons, wife of Richard Wydville
v 1310-1378.
Whilst the county histories provide admirable mish mashes of the Lyons
family and the internet is full of fanciful genealogies i can find little that
has adequate sources for this influential family.
Peter
j***@yahoo.com
2013-06-24 17:18:08 UTC
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Post by CE Wood
See also _Lyon Memorial: New York Families_ found at http://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial00mill#page/12/
Her patents were Sir John de Lyons of Warkworth, Northants and Alice de St. Liz. See Leo's site for pedigrees of Elizabeth, at http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00333002&tree=LEO
CE Wood
Leo's database, cited above, properly shows Elizabeth Lyons as the second wife of Richard Wydville and NOT the mother of his son John (who was by a first, unknown wife). This agrees with Neil Thompson and Charles Hansen in their "Ancestry of Charles II" (2012), who give some details on the first marriage of Elizabeth Lyons to Sir Nicholas Chetwode.

However, the "Lyon Memorial" book cited above incorrectly assigns Elizabeth Lyons as the mother of John, and it also gives incorrect information about John's wife - assigning another Lyon as his spouse. There were apparently two editions (at least) of this book - both of them seem to have the same errors. Elizabeth Lyons was not ancestral to Elizabeth Wydville, queen of Edward IV, as these and other older sources indicate.
P***@aol.com
2013-06-24 17:23:27 UTC
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thanks for that!
pg
Carl-Henry Geschwind
2019-12-08 17:30:35 UTC
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For those who might be interested in where the Lyons Family Memorial Volumes got their information about the ancestry of Elizabeth Lyons:

The first of the volumes (cited by wjhonson above) at pp. 436-438 provides English summaries of a number of medieval documents (see https://books.google.com/books?id=wic3AAAAMAAJ&dq=elizabeth lyons wydeville&pg=PA436).

The other volume (cited by CE Wood above) at pp. 16-17 gives some Latin extracts of those documents (see https://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial00mill#page/16/mode/2up).

Both of these are based on the Latin summaries of medieval documents published 1886 in Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, 2nd Ser., vol. 1, pp. 50-51 and 54-55 (see https://books.google.com/books?id=9QlBAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA50). While no citation is given here to the original, the context makes it clear that these summaries were prepared by August Vincent at the College of Arms around 1614 while constructing a pedigree for Richard Chetwode of Warkworth (for marginal notes by Vincent, see p. 46; for the pedigree, see pp. 69-76, with the Lyons portion being line D on pp. 70-71).
Carl-Henry Geschwind
2019-12-08 18:07:42 UTC
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Post by Carl-Henry Geschwind
The first of the volumes (cited by wjhonson above) at pp. 436-438 provides English summaries of a number of medieval documents (see https://books.google.com/books?id=wic3AAAAMAAJ&dq=elizabeth lyons wydeville&pg=PA436).
The other volume (cited by CE Wood above) at pp. 16-17 gives some Latin extracts of those documents (see https://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial00mill#page/16/mode/2up).
Both of these are based on the Latin summaries of medieval documents published 1886 in Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, 2nd Ser., vol. 1, pp. 50-51 and 54-55 (see https://books.google.com/books?id=9QlBAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA50). While no citation is given here to the original, the context makes it clear that these summaries were prepared by August Vincent at the College of Arms around 1614 while constructing a pedigree for Richard Chetwode of Warkworth (for marginal notes by Vincent, see p. 46; for the pedigree, see pp. 69-76, with the Lyons portion being line D on pp. 70-71).
The publication in Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica in turn is a reprint of Stephen Tucker, Pedigree of the Family of Chetwode of Chetwode, Co. Bucks (London: 1884), which was printed in only 50 copies (for those who have an account at familysearch.org, it can be viewed at https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/113900-pedigree-of-the-family-of-chetwode-of-chetwode-c?viewer=1&offset=4#page=3&viewer=picture&o=info&n=0&q=). The Latin summaries of Lyons documents are at pp. 20-23 of this publication.
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