Discussion:
Yeo or Fortescue wife of John Croker
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Loren Varga
2020-12-05 06:05:47 UTC
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Dear Group:
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.

According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.

I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?

Regards:
Loren
:
jd...@me.com
2020-12-05 10:39:18 UTC
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Post by Loren Varga
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.
According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.
I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?
Loren
Greetings Loren

This is the view of Thomas Westcotte:

“Robert (Yeo) married Alice, sister to Humphrey Walrond, of Bradfield in Uffculme, esq., and had issue Philip who died sans issue, William, Nicholas, Edward, Robert, Elizabeth, (married to Sir John Crocker, of Lynham in the parish of Yealmpton, knight;) …..”

A View of Devonshire in MDCXX with a pedigree of most of its gentry. Thomas Westcotte. Exeter 1845 pp593

Regards



John Ritchings
jd...@me.com
2020-12-05 11:07:57 UTC
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Post by ***@me.com
Post by Loren Varga
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.
According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.
I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?
Loren
Greetings Loren
“Robert (Yeo) married Alice, sister to Humphrey Walrond, of Bradfield in Uffculme, esq., and had issue Philip who died sans issue, William, Nicholas, Edward, Robert, Elizabeth, (married to Sir John Crocker, of Lynham in the parish of Yealmpton, knight;) …..”
A View of Devonshire in MDCXX with a pedigree of most of its gentry. Thomas Westcotte. Exeter 1845 pp593
Regards
John Ritchings
Greetings Loren

On page 550. Wetscotte states:

Sir John Crocker, of Lynham, knight, (sheriff of Devon 2nd Henry VIII,) married Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Yeo, of Heanton-Sachvile, esq., and had issue John, Wiliam, Agnes, Frideswid, Mary.

Regards




John Ritchings
taf
2020-12-05 12:17:26 UTC
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Post by ***@me.com
Sir John Crocker, of Lynham, knight, (sheriff of Devon 2nd Henry VIII,) married Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Yeo, of Heanton-Sachvile, esq., and had issue John, Wiliam, Agnes, Frideswid, Mary.
1560 visitation of Devon, as published, shows Robert Yeo marrying Leve, sister of Humphry Walrond, having William, Edward, Robert, Elizabeth wife Sir John Croker, knt, and Jane. Unfortunately its Crocker pedigree begins with Sir John, no spouse shown.

taf
John Higgins
2020-12-09 05:13:40 UTC
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Post by ***@me.com
Sir John Crocker, of Lynham, knight, (sheriff of Devon 2nd Henry VIII,) married Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Yeo, of Heanton-Sachvile, esq., and had issue John, Wiliam, Agnes, Frideswid, Mary.
1560 visitation of Devon, as published, shows Robert Yeo marrying Leve, sister of Humphry Walrond, having William, Edward, Robert, Elizabeth wife Sir John Croker, knt, and Jane. Unfortunately its Crocker pedigree begins with Sir John, no spouse shown.
taf
1560? I think this is actually Frederic Thomas Colby's edition of the 1564 visitation of Devon.
John Higgins
2020-12-09 05:15:50 UTC
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Post by ***@me.com
Sir John Crocker, of Lynham, knight, (sheriff of Devon 2nd Henry VIII,) married Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Yeo, of Heanton-Sachvile, esq., and had issue John, Wiliam, Agnes, Frideswid, Mary.
1560 visitation of Devon, as published, shows Robert Yeo marrying Leve, sister of Humphry Walrond, having William, Edward, Robert, Elizabeth wife Sir John Croker, knt, and Jane. Unfortunately its Crocker pedigree begins with Sir John, no spouse shown.
taf
1560? I think this is actually Frederic Thomas Colby's edition of the 1564 visitation of Devon.
Oops.. forgot to include the URL.
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Visitation_of_the_County_of_Devon_in.html?id=B34_AQAAMAAJ
wjhonson
2020-12-09 16:37:19 UTC
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I agree that the various Visitations (and their descendants) are utterly screwed up on this family.
However the John Crocker of Lineham who married Elizabeth Strode has an IPM in 1560 where his son and heir John is called "aged 28"

This son is the man who m Agnes Servington and had among others that Barbara who m Walter Elford he "aet 7y5m" Aug 1583, and she "aet 83" at her death 1658

That gives fairly tight dates for this section

This elder John was d 1560 "first son" of his parents John Crocker and Elizabeth Pollard
Proving conclusively that He could NOT be a child of a 1507 marriage contract
wjhonson
2020-12-09 16:50:34 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
I agree that the various Visitations (and their descendants) are utterly screwed up on this family.
However the John Crocker of Lineham who married Elizabeth Strode has an IPM in 1560 where his son and heir John is called "aged 28"
This son is the man who m Agnes Servington and had among others that Barbara who m Walter Elford he "aet 7y5m" Aug 1583, and she "aet 83" at her death 1658
That gives fairly tight dates for this section
This elder John was d 1560 "first son" of his parents John Crocker and Elizabeth Pollard
Proving conclusively that He could NOT be a child of a 1507 marriage contract
See

https://geneagraphie.com/showmedia.php?mediaID=15104&tngpage=140
John Higgins
2020-12-09 05:00:41 UTC
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Post by Loren Varga
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.
According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.
I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?
Loren
I think the answer to your question about Sir John Croker of Lineham (d. 1508) and his two wives can be found in the material of the Yeo Family Society which you mention. See here:
http://www.yeosociety.com/yeoroots/early%20origins.htm#robalice

This should bring you to the section titled “Robert Yeo (145) and Alice Walrond”. The discussion of the 1507 marriage contract between Sir John Croker and Elizabeth Yeo is at the bottom of this section. Here is the text:

“Robert Yeo, his extended family and friends also contracted his daughter, Elizabeth Yeo, then only in her early twenties, to marry Sir John Crocker, of Lynham, Kt., an elderly but prominent man in his seventies. In return Robert and his associates were given lands in Plymouth for the term of her life. The marriage contract dated 4 th July, 1507 was between, 1 John Crokker, knight , 2 John Bassett, knight, Thomas Haycche, Roger Graynefeld, William Walrond, Edmund Yeo and Edward Yeo for the Manors of Hemmerdon and Bykeford for life of Isabel, daughter of Robert Yeo , esq and the witnesses were Humfrey Fulford , Thomas Graynefeld , knights, and William Yeo , & others, all well known names.

“Sir John Crocker's son John had married Ann Arundell , a very wealthy heiress, whose inherited lands included Huish and manors in Stratton, Cornwall and no doubt the Yeo family were keen to share this inheritence. However Ann died, childless, on the 25 th August, 1507, just a few weeks after the marriage and all the estates were shared between other distant relatives so poor Elizabeth was sacrificed in vain.”

The important point is that, at the time of the 1507 contract, Sir John Croker’s son John was an adult, already married and left a widower. Thus. John must have been a son by Sir John’s first wife Elizabeth Fortescue, who is identified in at least some Croker pedigrees. The pedigrees seem to agree that the younger John Croker married (as his second wife) Elizabeth Pollard, from whom subsequent generations of the Crokers are descended.

None of the Croker pedigrees that I’ve seen is entirely accurate, and some of them are wildly speculative. For example, the Croker pedigree on p. 550 of Thomas Westcote, A View of Devonshire (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) seems to split Sir John Croker with his two wives into two separate persons with different wives. And it places the second marriage a couple of generations after the first, and gives him 5 children by Elizabeth Yeo – highly unlikely since the marriage was in 1507 and Sir John died in the following year 1508.

The only Croker pedigree I’ve seen that mentions both wives of Sir John Croker (in the same generation) is that of J. L. Vivian in his editions of the visitations of both Devon and Cornwall. But Vivian mistakenly assigns the second wife Elizabeth Yeo as the mother of the younger John Croker – not possible as discussed above. So, Vivian is likely the source of the confusion about the mother of the younger John Croker.
Betty Gorrie
2023-10-26 19:31:07 UTC
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Post by Loren Varga
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.
According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.
I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?
Loren
In the Inquisition, he is noted as having married Elizabeth Yeo in 1507. She was born about 1482, and basically was sold to the Croker family in hopes of a great use of the lands of John and perhaps John's son as his wife Ann was dsp. However, John senior died 1508. So you can see why Elizabeth Yeo is not the mother of John's son, who was married to Ann who died in 1507. That son John was in fact over 50 years old. I am currently working on this issue, as Elizabeth Fortescue was a widow when she married John the father. She could be the mother of said son John, but there are other references in a lot of material that says that the father married the Heiress of Dawney. Now about that time, Emmeline Dawney the heiress of John Dawney married Courtenay. So it definitely was not her.

The son who married Anne Arundel who died 1507 subsequently married Elizabeth Pollard who was the mother of the future generation. People say that Vivian's Visitations is the best, except he has Elizabeth Yeo as being the mother of the son, which is impossible, as he was 49 at the time of their marriage. So I am still doing my due diligence on Elizabeth Fortescue as the mother, so jury is still out.

There are lots of issues with the wives of Croker before this time, and Vivian has chosen not to show any of them. One of the wives, Alice Gambon, daughter of John Gambon of Lyneham is said by the History of Parliament, John Croker MP 1394 , has most likely a mother Agnes Churchill. In Collin's Peerage Vol 1, he says that Giles Churchill was the Lord of Lyneham, and that AT LAST the Croker's inherited it. So I am pretty solid on that one. Giles was the 2nd son, with the 3rd son being the ancestor of Winston Churchill.

In the Parish of Plymton Erle, it says that the wife of the one before that was the Heiress of Corim. The History of Parliament calls her Joan. So that pretty much wraps that generation. By her he got the Manor of Hemedon, which did find its way down stream in the family.

Cheers, BettyG
Betty Gorrie
2023-10-26 19:41:41 UTC
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Post by Loren Varga
Sir John Croker of Lineham in some pedigrees is shown as having two wives. One Elizabeth Fortescue daughter of Richard Fortescue of Punsbourne and Elizabeth Yeo daughter of Robert Yeo.
According to the Yeo Family Society Elizabeth Yeo was only in her 20's when her father contracted a marriage with John Croker who was in his 70's.
I have seen also a pedigree where the above Elizabeth's are given as separate wives to two John Croker's.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current though of which wife was the mother of John Croker,Jr who died in 1520 and married Elizabeth Pollard?
Loren
Loren and all, I just noticed that John Churchill, older brother of Giles, by Elias was married to Jane Dawney, coheiress of Roger Dawney. I would think that this is where the heiress of Dawney came in. I can't see any other sources for that statement in Families of Maryland. This John Churchill and Jane Dawney came from Collins Peerages, Vol 1 at 363
Betty G

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