Discussion:
Line of descent from King John of England to Margaret Whitlegh (or Whitely) (died c. 1514), daughter and co-heiress of Richard Whitlegh of Efford
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d***@aol.com
2017-04-07 22:57:28 UTC
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Is this a valid line of descent from King John to Margaret Whitleigh, dau. of Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford?

1. John of England, King of England (1166 – 1216), m. Isabel de Angoulême
2. Richard Plantagenet of England, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans (1209 – 1272), by his mistress Joan de Valletort
3. Sir Walter de Cornwall, Knt., of Brannel, Cornwall(c. 1254 - c. 1313)m. unknown wife
4. William de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1280 – c. 1340) m. Iseult ______
5. John de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1306 – c. 1332) m. Margery Tregago
6. Margaret (or Isabel) de Cornwall (c. 1332 – c. 1400) m. David de Hendower (or Hender) of N. Wales
7. David Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1360 – c. 1425) m. unknown wife
8. Richard Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1400 – c. 1460) m. Katherine Chamberlayne
9. Margaret Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1432 – c. 1500) m. Thomas Tregarthin
10.Margaret Tregarthin (c. 1458 - ?) m. Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford
11.Margaret Whitleigh (c. 1474 – c. 1514) m. Sir Roger Grenville, Knt., of Stowe in Kilkhampton, Cornwall

Thanks,
L.E.
wjhonson
2017-04-10 21:37:24 UTC
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Post by d***@aol.com
Is this a valid line of descent from King John to Margaret Whitleigh, dau. of Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford?
1. John of England, King of England (1166 – 1216), m. Isabel de Angoulême
2. Richard Plantagenet of England, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans (1209 – 1272), by his mistress Joan de Valletort
3. Sir Walter de Cornwall, Knt., of Brannel, Cornwall(c. 1254 - c. 1313)m. unknown wife
4. William de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1280 – c. 1340) m. Iseult ______
5. John de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1306 – c. 1332) m. Margery Tregago
6. Margaret (or Isabel) de Cornwall (c. 1332 – c. 1400) m. David de Hendower (or Hender) of N. Wales
7. David Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1360 – c. 1425) m. unknown wife
8. Richard Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1400 – c. 1460) m. Katherine Chamberlayne
9. Margaret Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1432 – c. 1500) m. Thomas Tregarthin
10.Margaret Tregarthin (c. 1458 - ?) m. Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford
11.Margaret Whitleigh (c. 1474 – c. 1514) m. Sir Roger Grenville, Knt., of Stowe in Kilkhampton, Cornwall
Thanks,
L.E.
I think you will have a hard row to hoe to find any documentation (credible) on generations 3 4 and 5
j***@albion.edu
2017-04-10 22:06:19 UTC
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Really? I would have thought lines 6-8 would be harder, I've only seen references to Visitations as the basis for the Hender / Hendower family. I'm not nearly as professional as most of the group, but I thought the Cornwall generations were generally accepted. Mr. Johnson, do you have better references for the Henders? Anyone else, am I wrong about the Cornwall line being substantiated?
Sorry to poke my amateur nose in, this is just one of the lines I'm more interested in. The Hender / Cornwall marriage is *allegedly* ancestral to my own line, and to Frances Hender, wife of Richard Robartes, ancestral couple of Lady Diana Spencer.
Jim+
d***@aol.com
2017-04-10 23:23:21 UTC
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The following is offered as further support for the lineage given above:

Is it well known that Sir Walter of Cornwall, Knt., received a grant of the royal manor of Brannel, Cornwall, from his half-brother Edmund, 2nd Earl of Cornwall (d. 1300) in which he was called "brother" [see Pridham ,T.L., Devonshire Celebrities, (regarding the ancestry of the Cornwall family of Brannell), pp. 12-17: “Cornwall of Court in St. Stephen-in-Brannel, Cornwall, descended from a son of Richard, Earl of Cornwall, by Joan de Valletort. The elder branch of this family became extinct after a few descents in the fourteenth century, the heiress married Hendower.”].

He was the father of William de Cornwall and grandfather of John de Cornwall who married Margery Tregago, parents of Margaret de Cornwall who married David Hendower, from whom was descended Joan Tregarthin (d. 1583), wife of John Wadham (d.1578) of Edge, Branscombe.

[also see Ancestry of Joan Tregarthin, as set out by Davies in his “Parochial History of Cornwall,” concerning the parish of Goran (Davies, vol. 2., pp. 109-110, adding reference to his articles on “Stephens in Brannell” and St. Stephens in Saltash): “At Tregarden lived John Tregarthyn, temp of Edward I, how long before I know not, after which his posterity in this place married with the great inheritrixes of Pever, Chamberlayne and Hendower, of Court, in Branell, by which last, by the Cornwalls of that place, they were lineally descended from Richard, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans, by his concubine Joan de Valletort, widow of Sir Alexander Oakeston.”]

The mural monument of Joan Tregarthin (d. 1583) in Branscombe Church, Devon, has an inscription which states:

“Here lieth intombd the body of a virtuous & antient Gentlewoman descended of the antient House of the Plantagenets sometime of Cornwall namely JOAN one of the daughters &heirs unto John Tregarthin in the county of Cornwall ESQ. She was first married unto John Kelleway ESQ. who had by her much issue. After his death she was married to John Wadham of Meryfield in the county of Somerset ESQ. & by him had several children. She lived a virtuous & godly life & died in an honourable age. September in the year of Christ 1583.”

One of the heraldic escutcheons from the memorial in Branscombe Church shows the pedigree of Joan Tregarthin. Her descent from Richard, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans is referred to in the inscription (mentioned above) and the arms of his descendants, the de Cornwall family of Brannel, are shown in the 4th quarter of the sinister half of the escutcheon: A lion rampant in chief a label of three points a bordure engrailed bezantée. They are described on the Codrington Memorial: Argent a chevron between three escallops sable. Later versions of the family crest included three mermaids instead of the scallop shells but with the same chevron design.
John Higgins
2017-04-11 03:34:19 UTC
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Post by d***@aol.com
Is it well known that Sir Walter of Cornwall, Knt., received a grant of the royal manor of Brannel, Cornwall, from his half-brother Edmund, 2nd Earl of Cornwall (d. 1300) in which he was called "brother" [see Pridham ,T.L., Devonshire Celebrities, (regarding the ancestry of the Cornwall family of Brannell), pp. 12-17: “Cornwall of Court in St. Stephen-in-Brannel, Cornwall, descended from a son of Richard, Earl of Cornwall, by Joan de Valletort. The elder branch of this family became extinct after a few descents in the fourteenth century, the heiress married Hendower.”].
Are you sure about the source of this quote? Digital copies of the Pridham work at the usual online locations (Google Books, Internet Archive) do not have this quote on the indicated pages, nor do they have any mention of Brannel at all.
Post by d***@aol.com
He was the father of William de Cornwall and grandfather of John de Cornwall who married Margery Tregago, parents of Margaret de Cornwall who married David Hendower, from whom was descended Joan Tregarthin (d. 1583), wife of John Wadham (d.1578) of Edge, Branscombe.
What is your source for this line of descent?
Post by d***@aol.com
[also see Ancestry of Joan Tregarthin, as set out by Davies in his “Parochial History of Cornwall,” concerning the parish of Goran (Davies, vol. 2., pp. 109-110, adding reference to his articles on “Stephens in Brannell” and St. Stephens in Saltash): “At Tregarden lived John Tregarthyn, temp of Edward I, how long before I know not, after which his posterity in this place married with the great inheritrixes of Pever, Chamberlayne and Hendower, of Court, in Branell, by which last, by the Cornwalls of that place, they were lineally descended from Richard, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans, by his concubine Joan de Valletort, widow of Sir Alexander Oakeston.”]
The work cited here is by Davies Gilbert - i.e., his first name was Davies, not his last name as is suggested above. Also, the reference you give to his article on "St. Stephen's in Brannel" [not Brannell] in vol. 3 of the Gilbert work is very vague about the Cornwall descent and does not give the specific descent shown in the preceding paragraph.

I think there may well be support for this particular Cornwall descent - but not via what's given here in this post.
d***@aol.com
2017-04-11 13:52:58 UTC
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Post by John Higgins
What is your source for this line of descent?
(See Jackson, Sir Thomas Graham. Wadham College, Oxford (1893), p. 25 (Tregarthen ped.))

According to the Tregarthin pedigree:

Walter de Cornwall or Plantagenet = ?
|
William de Cornwall
|
John de Cornwall, M.P for Truro, 6th Ed. III. = Margery, da., of Sir John Tregago of Fentongollan, co. Cornwall
|
David de Hendower, or Hendure of N. Wales = Margery de Cornwall (called Isabel in Visit.), or Plantagenet, only d. and h.
|
David de Hendower, s. and h. = ?
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Richard de Hendower, s. and h. = Katherine, d. and h. of John Chamberlayne, by the heiress of Pever
|
Margaret de Hendower, only d. and h. of Court in Brannel, & C. = Thomas Tregarthin, of Tregarthin, Esq., Sheriff of Cornwall, 1492
|
Margaret Tregarthin = Richard Whitleigh of Efford, Co. Devon, Esq., Sheriff, 1501


(also see Gilbert, C.S. An Historical Survey of the County of Cornwall, (1820) vol. II, pp. 280-281. Author states: “ … Thomas Tregarthian, is known to have married Margaret, one of the daughters and coheiresses of Richard de Hendower, heir and representative of the great families of Hendower, Chamberlayne, Pever, and also of, and descended through, the Cornwalls, from the noble house of Plantagenet. Thomas Tregarthian, after his aforesaid marriage, removed to Court, in St. Stephen's, in Brannel, and was sheriff of Cornwall in 1492. His issue were John, his son and heir, and two daughters. Of the latter, Margaret was married to Richard Whitley, or Whitleigh, of Efford, near Plymouth, and left issue two daughters, married to Grenville, of Stowe, and Hals; and Catherine, to John Carminowe, of Fentongollen, esq.”).
wjhonson
2017-04-12 15:24:20 UTC
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This book is online, you should have started with that

https://books.google.com/books?id=9JPTaOZoPkMC&pg=PA25

Wadham College, Oxford: Its Foundation, Architecture and History, with an ...
By Sir Thomas Graham Jackson
v***@gmail.com
2019-08-06 10:10:06 UTC
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Post by d***@aol.com
Is this a valid line of descent from King John to Margaret Whitleigh, dau. of Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford?
1. John of England, King of England (1166 – 1216), m. Isabel de Angoulême
2. Richard Plantagenet of England, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans (1209 – 1272), by his mistress Joan de Valletort
3. Sir Walter de Cornwall, Knt., of Brannel, Cornwall(c. 1254 - c. 1313)m. unknown wife
4. William de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1280 – c. 1340) m. Iseult ______
5. John de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1306 – c. 1332) m. Margery Tregago
6. Margaret (or Isabel) de Cornwall (c. 1332 – c. 1400) m. David de Hendower (or Hender) of N. Wales
7. David Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1360 – c. 1425) m. unknown wife
8. Richard Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1400 – c. 1460) m. Katherine Chamberlayne
9. Margaret Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1432 – c. 1500) m. Thomas Tregarthin
10.Margaret Tregarthin (c. 1458 - ?) m. Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford
11.Margaret Whitleigh (c. 1474 – c. 1514) m. Sir Roger Grenville, Knt., of Stowe in Kilkhampton, Cornwall
Thanks,
L.E.
v***@gmail.com
2019-08-06 10:15:33 UTC
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Post by d***@aol.com
Is this a valid line of descent from King John to Margaret Whitleigh, dau. of Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford?
1. John of England, King of England (1166 – 1216), m. Isabel de Angoulême
2. Richard Plantagenet of England, Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans (1209 – 1272), by his mistress Joan de Valletort
3. Sir Walter de Cornwall, Knt., of Brannel, Cornwall(c. 1254 - c. 1313)m. unknown wife
4. William de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1280 – c. 1340) m. Iseult ______
5. John de Cornwall of Brannel, Cornwall (c. 1306 – c. 1332) m. Margery Tregago
6. Margaret (or Isabel) de Cornwall (c. 1332 – c. 1400) m. David de Hendower (or Hender) of N. Wales
7. David Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1360 – c. 1425) m. unknown wife
8. Richard Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1400 – c. 1460) m. Katherine Chamberlayne
9. Margaret Hendower (or Hender) (c. 1432 – c. 1500) m. Thomas Tregarthin
10.Margaret Tregarthin (c. 1458 - ?) m. Richard Whitleigh, Esq., of Efford
11.Margaret Whitleigh (c. 1474 – c. 1514) m. Sir Roger Grenville, Knt., of Stowe in Kilkhampton, Cornwall
Thanks,
L.E.
According to my family tree this is correct best wishes valerie, bail tree
my other tree is pamela maule(Earl of Panmure) & devogilla of galloway
public viewing,if i can help i live in Devon uk.

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