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Ancestry of Aaron Schock
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wjhonson
2020-03-10 19:06:23 UTC
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Recently back in the news, this ex-congressman just came out as gay, although we have all known it for five years at least.

I have begun the process of researching his family lines, but wonder if any of the usual suspects has already done this ?

Anyone know?
wjhonson
2020-03-11 17:38:08 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Recently back in the news, this ex-congressman just came out as gay, although we have all known it for five years at least.
I have begun the process of researching his family lines, but wonder if any of the usual suspects has already done this ?
Anyone know?
It turns out that *every one* of his eight great-grandparents was German, and immigrated to the US. So it's not very likely to lead to any royal connection there.
Denis Beauregard
2020-03-11 23:00:13 UTC
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Post by wjhonson
Post by wjhonson
Recently back in the news, this ex-congressman just came out as gay, although we have all known it for five years at least.
I have begun the process of researching his family lines, but wonder if any of the usual suspects has already done this ?
Anyone know?
It turns out that *every one* of his eight great-grandparents was German, and immigrated to the US. So it's not very likely to lead to any royal connection there.
Royalty is not limited to England.

But indeed you have to know German to search in German records.


Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
j***@gmail.com
2020-03-12 00:15:36 UTC
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I have researched in German records for 20 years. finding obscure links back to German Royals by hunting through the records is extraordinarily rare.

The same is true for English records except that the class of people who were among the 17th century immigrants to the United States happened to be highly selected to have a large share of immigrants who were lower gentry we're not far removed and then because of the small population in United States ends up being the ancestors of quite a number of people. Sometimes disk use our belief about how easy it is to find Royal ancestry is in general.

It's also fair to say that the surviving records of minor branches of nobility art much more Extant in England than on the continent for the late Medieval era. Germany was one big war with constantly changing borders with tons of towns that were just completely wiped out during the Thirty Years War.
taf
2020-03-12 01:11:31 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
I have researched in German records for 20 years. finding obscure links
back to German Royals by hunting through the records is extraordinarily
rare.
This has been my experience as well. None of my continental ancestry can be traced prior to the 16th century, and most not before the 17th, pretty much all of them being common tradesmen. Admittedly, there is not the same tradition of research and record availability in the respective German, French and Swiss archives, but in a few cases when someone has gone through the local property and other records in detail, it has just added one additional generation of tradesmen. In all of the German I have personally worked on, for myself and others, I have come across just one family of note, and they were a rising family of tradesmen-come-scientists, not one descended from prominent ancestors.

I think we have a distorted picture of how common this was in England too. I probably have just short of 100 New England immigrants identified in England, and only three of them connect to royalty, a frequency that is supposed to represent this being a 'common' phenomenon. I do think it was more common in England, but if it was just a little less common, it would look alot like my continental families. Certainly, the majority of my English families look just like the German ones, petering out among tradesmen or tenant farmers within a generation of the earliest preserved parish registers, if that.

taf
Peter Stewart
2020-03-12 03:32:52 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by j***@gmail.com
I have researched in German records for 20 years. finding obscure links
back to German Royals by hunting through the records is extraordinarily
rare.
This has been my experience as well. None of my continental ancestry can be traced prior to the 16th century, and most not before the 17th, pretty much all of them being common tradesmen. Admittedly, there is not the same tradition of research and record availability in the respective German, French and Swiss archives, but in a few cases when someone has gone through the local property and other records in detail, it has just added one additional generation of tradesmen. In all of the German I have personally worked on, for myself and others, I have come across just one family of note, and they were a rising family of tradesmen-come-scientists, not one descended from prominent ancestors.
I think we have a distorted picture of how common this was in England too. I probably have just short of 100 New England immigrants identified in England, and only three of them connect to royalty, a frequency that is supposed to represent this being a 'common' phenomenon. I do think it was more common in England, but if it was just a little less common, it would look alot like my continental families. Certainly, the majority of my English families look just like the German ones, petering out among tradesmen or tenant farmers within a generation of the earliest preserved parish registers, if that.
That this was more common in England is perhaps largely due to the lack
of a virtual caste system of nobility as in much of continental Europe.

An interesting contrast can be seen in comparing the ancestries of the
queen's mother, née Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, and her paternal
grandmother, née Princess May (Mary) of Teck.

In both cases there are distant royal ancestors and closer non-royal
antecedents (Mary, having been a great-granddaughter of George III
through her mother, had relatively closer royal ancestors). In the
Bowes-Lyon ancestry tradesmen appear not very far back, but in the Teck
ancestry they cannot be so readily found through the lowest-ranking
lines, which came from Hungarian nobility.

In England older gentry families by the 17th century were likely to have
royal or at least highly notable ancestors, but this didn't save a few
of them from ruin in the Civil War with their daughters marrying
"beneath" their former socio-economic level afterwards, whereas in
Europe the wars of religion did not cause a similar degree of downward
mobility nearly as frequently. Maybe ruined "noble" families were still
more prone to intermarry than to seek wealthier up-and-comer husbands
for their daughters.

But paradoxically, the English "aristocracy" from the 18th century on
became more disdainful of "trade" than some of their European
counterparts, especially Italian ones, despite still making some
mercenary unions with heiresses from these despised ranks. (Later,
"dollar princesses" from the USA popped up all over the continent but
the British probably bagged more of them than the French who were the
next-most avid hunters).

One path to downward social mobility everywhere was insanity. A mad
father could marry his daughter to any sort of riff-raff and she might
still have been better off than in her childhood home.

Peter Stewart
g***@gmail.com
2020-03-12 10:07:05 UTC
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Post by Peter Stewart
In England older gentry families by the 17th century were likely to have
royal or at least highly notable ancestors, but this didn't save a few
of them from ruin in the Civil War with their daughters marrying
"beneath" their former socio-economic level afterwards, whereas in
Europe the wars of religion did not cause a similar degree of downward
mobility nearly as frequently. Maybe ruined "noble" families were still
more prone to intermarry than to seek wealthier up-and-comer husbands
for their daughters.
But paradoxically, the English "aristocracy" from the 18th century on
became more disdainful of "trade" than some of their European
counterparts, especially Italian ones, despite still making some
mercenary unions with heiresses from these despised ranks. (Later,
"dollar princesses" from the USA popped up all over the continent but
the British probably bagged more of them than the French who were the
next-most avid hunters).
One path to downward social mobility everywhere was insanity. A mad
father could marry his daughter to any sort of riff-raff and she might
still have been better off than in her childhood home.
Peter Stewart
Another path to downward mobility was illegitimacy (in England as well as the Continent - aren't many of the Plantagenet ancestries due to royal bastards?).

Admittedly my "continental" research includes Norway (where tax records for the 17th century and property records for the 18th and 19th centuries are freely available online in addition to parish registers), but I was able there to document one case of an army officer's son seducing a peasant girl in the 1780s (with the girl naming her seducer at the resulting baby's baptism - the baby's peasant descendants then emigrated to Illinois in the 1850s). Tracing that officer's ancestors did get me to the 14th century in Germany (not landed gentry, but several urban patrician families for which property and tax records still exist in city archives and have been well-researched by local German genealogists).

I have been working on another case where an illegitimate descent from the daughter of a Danish noble family appears likely (that the bastard, who ended up as an officer in the Norwegian army in the 1710s and had urban bourgeois descendants in Norway and then the U.S., is the son of this woman appears to be documented in the will of that woman's sister, which was seen independently by several genealogists in the late 19th century but which I have not yet been able to track down). If that link can be established, then a royal descent is a definite possibility, as the Danish equivalent of Burke's Peerage shows at least one early-13th-century Danish royal bastard contributing to the ancestry of that noble family.
Denis Beauregard
2020-03-12 04:20:56 UTC
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Post by taf
Post by j***@gmail.com
I have researched in German records for 20 years. finding obscure links
back to German Royals by hunting through the records is extraordinarily
rare.
This has been my experience as well. None of my continental ancestry can be traced prior to the 16th century, and most not before the 17th, pretty much all of them being common tradesmen. Admittedly, there is not the same tradition of research and record availability in the respective German, French and Swiss archives, but in a
few cases when someone has gone through the local property and other records in detail, it has just added one additional generation of tradesmen. In all of the German I have personally worked on, for myself and others, I have come across just one family of note, and they were a rising family of tradesmen-come-scientists, not one
descended from prominent ancestors.
Post by taf
I think we have a distorted picture of how common this was in England too. I probably have just short of 100 New England immigrants identified in England, and only three of them connect to royalty, a frequency that is supposed to represent this being a 'common' phenomenon. I do think it was more common in England, but if it was
just a little less common, it would look alot like my continental families. Certainly, the majority of my English families look just like the German ones, petering out among tradesmen or tenant farmers within a generation of the earliest preserved parish registers, if that.


But, what about works like Europaische Stammtafeln ?


Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
taf
2020-03-12 06:47:59 UTC
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Post by Denis Beauregard
But, what about works like Europaische Stammtafeln ?
I'm not sure I am following the question. A tradesman from Queichhambach or an Ispringen shoemaker isn't likely to be in Europaische Stammtafeln, any more than you would expect to find an Ashwick coal miner or a Binegar mason and poacher in Burke's Peerage.

taf
wjhonson
2020-03-12 16:24:56 UTC
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I didn't know this post would generate this level of interest. I will post what I found about him, this weekend and let any one have at it, to see if they can make any interesting connection.
h***@yahoo.com
2020-03-13 15:57:17 UTC
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https://ethnicelebs.com/aaron-schock

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