j***@hotmail.com
2005-09-28 23:36:26 UTC
WAS KATHERINE (DALE) CARTER, WIFE OF CAPT. THOMAS CARTER OF LANCASTER
CO., VA, A DAUGHTER OF DIANA SKIPWITH, WIFE OF MAJ. EDWARD DALE?
This seems to be a perennial problem in my family. In my opinion she
was not, and I will present three reasons why:
a. The evidence cited by Charles Martin Ward, in his 2000 article in
"TAG:" that Katherine (Dale) Carter was born in 1652, prior to her
alleged mother's witnessing two deeds in the fall of 1655 using her
maiden name "Diana Skipwith." I have seen women in the medieval
period use their maiden names or titles, but they reverted to them
after their husbands had died. Those women were the daughters of
peers, while la Skipwith was of the knightly class and of a later
period. I wish that Ward had assembled all the data, pro and con, and
dealt with it, but he didn't, and so here we are.
b. In Maj. Edward Dale's will made 24 August 1694, he refers to his
wife as "my now wife." He does not name Diana Dale, but since we
know that she died on 31 July 1695 (per the Thomas Carter prayer book,
and some five months after Edward Dale), and had been married to Dale
for a long time as he states in his will, there is no doubt to whom
he's referring. I know that Eugene Stratton in "Applied
Genealogy" says that he doesn't think "now wife" always means
the man had a prior wife, but that's the ordinary usage of the term,
and under the circumstances it's highly suggestive. Unless a
persuasive reason can be put forth as to why it should acquire a
different meaning in this case, I see no reason to discount its normal
meaning (see "Albion's Seed" (1989) p. 277 for a discussion of
this term and some observations on family life in the Virginia
tidewater of the 17th century).
c. The Thomas Carter prayer book. I have a copy of the pages with
genealogical information, which can be obtained from The Virginia
Historical Society in Richmond. The notes are written in different
hands because the book had a number of owners. How it survived 300
years is a minor miracle. Nowhere in this book does Thomas Carter
claim that his wife was the daughter of Diana Dale. It does show Diana
standing for Carter children at their baptism, along with my ancestor
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, and others with connections to the family,
including the wife of Diana's brother Grey. Judging from the glowing
epitaph which, apparently, Carter wrote for Edward Dale, it seems to me
had his wife been Diana Dale's daughter, the fact would have been
trumpeted. It is true that the Carters had a daughter, Diana, and a
son, Henry Skipwith Carter. I think that Diana Dale was the only
mother Katherine had ever known, so it's not all that surprising that
she named children after her step-mother or the step-mother's father.
Diana (Skipwith) Dale did have two daughters, Mary (Dale) Harrison, and
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, wife of William Rogers, but Mary left no known
descendants and must have died before Edward Dale. The only actual
descendants of Diana Dale are through the Rogers children.
Dale very clearly favored his eldest daughter Katherine, leaving her
and her family all of his estate. He does mention my ancestor,
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, but only in passing. Thomas Carter was a much
wealthier man than William Rogers, and in genealogical accounts of
Dale's family, frequently Katherine is the only child mentioned. For
an account of some of the descendants of Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, see
Jay Berry Price's "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith and
Allied Lines" (1992; Price also cites the 1655 deed evidence, and
draws the same conclusion as Ward, but without mentioning Katherine
Carter).
Douglas Richardson, in his two volumes (2004 & 2005) does put forth the
argument that Katherine (Dale) Carter was the daughter of Diana
(Skipwith) Dale, as do the Weis Magna Carta series and other
publications. I note that Roberts' "RD600" says Katherine
Carter's maternity is in question. Unfortunately the result has been
some confusion, and not always well-meaning, either. Some people
probably think that because Katherine (Dale) Carter's line has been
"broken," that the lines of Mary Harrison and Elizabeth Rogers
(Dale's youngest child) are suspect, too; nothing could be further
from the truth. It's not necessary to post the proof here, because I
posted it on Rootsweb's "Skipwith" board under the title "From
Edw. III to Diana Skipwith, d. 1695, wife of Edw. Dale", which anyone
can access. I like Douglas Richardson's books; they present a vast
amount of data in an easy to follow format, and I think are for the
most part correct, although I have spotted a few errors. In the case
of Katherine (Dale) Carter, I have to respectfully disagree. I think
it's time to put this one to rest.
Jeff Chipman
CO., VA, A DAUGHTER OF DIANA SKIPWITH, WIFE OF MAJ. EDWARD DALE?
This seems to be a perennial problem in my family. In my opinion she
was not, and I will present three reasons why:
a. The evidence cited by Charles Martin Ward, in his 2000 article in
"TAG:" that Katherine (Dale) Carter was born in 1652, prior to her
alleged mother's witnessing two deeds in the fall of 1655 using her
maiden name "Diana Skipwith." I have seen women in the medieval
period use their maiden names or titles, but they reverted to them
after their husbands had died. Those women were the daughters of
peers, while la Skipwith was of the knightly class and of a later
period. I wish that Ward had assembled all the data, pro and con, and
dealt with it, but he didn't, and so here we are.
b. In Maj. Edward Dale's will made 24 August 1694, he refers to his
wife as "my now wife." He does not name Diana Dale, but since we
know that she died on 31 July 1695 (per the Thomas Carter prayer book,
and some five months after Edward Dale), and had been married to Dale
for a long time as he states in his will, there is no doubt to whom
he's referring. I know that Eugene Stratton in "Applied
Genealogy" says that he doesn't think "now wife" always means
the man had a prior wife, but that's the ordinary usage of the term,
and under the circumstances it's highly suggestive. Unless a
persuasive reason can be put forth as to why it should acquire a
different meaning in this case, I see no reason to discount its normal
meaning (see "Albion's Seed" (1989) p. 277 for a discussion of
this term and some observations on family life in the Virginia
tidewater of the 17th century).
c. The Thomas Carter prayer book. I have a copy of the pages with
genealogical information, which can be obtained from The Virginia
Historical Society in Richmond. The notes are written in different
hands because the book had a number of owners. How it survived 300
years is a minor miracle. Nowhere in this book does Thomas Carter
claim that his wife was the daughter of Diana Dale. It does show Diana
standing for Carter children at their baptism, along with my ancestor
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, and others with connections to the family,
including the wife of Diana's brother Grey. Judging from the glowing
epitaph which, apparently, Carter wrote for Edward Dale, it seems to me
had his wife been Diana Dale's daughter, the fact would have been
trumpeted. It is true that the Carters had a daughter, Diana, and a
son, Henry Skipwith Carter. I think that Diana Dale was the only
mother Katherine had ever known, so it's not all that surprising that
she named children after her step-mother or the step-mother's father.
Diana (Skipwith) Dale did have two daughters, Mary (Dale) Harrison, and
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, wife of William Rogers, but Mary left no known
descendants and must have died before Edward Dale. The only actual
descendants of Diana Dale are through the Rogers children.
Dale very clearly favored his eldest daughter Katherine, leaving her
and her family all of his estate. He does mention my ancestor,
Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, but only in passing. Thomas Carter was a much
wealthier man than William Rogers, and in genealogical accounts of
Dale's family, frequently Katherine is the only child mentioned. For
an account of some of the descendants of Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers, see
Jay Berry Price's "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith and
Allied Lines" (1992; Price also cites the 1655 deed evidence, and
draws the same conclusion as Ward, but without mentioning Katherine
Carter).
Douglas Richardson, in his two volumes (2004 & 2005) does put forth the
argument that Katherine (Dale) Carter was the daughter of Diana
(Skipwith) Dale, as do the Weis Magna Carta series and other
publications. I note that Roberts' "RD600" says Katherine
Carter's maternity is in question. Unfortunately the result has been
some confusion, and not always well-meaning, either. Some people
probably think that because Katherine (Dale) Carter's line has been
"broken," that the lines of Mary Harrison and Elizabeth Rogers
(Dale's youngest child) are suspect, too; nothing could be further
from the truth. It's not necessary to post the proof here, because I
posted it on Rootsweb's "Skipwith" board under the title "From
Edw. III to Diana Skipwith, d. 1695, wife of Edw. Dale", which anyone
can access. I like Douglas Richardson's books; they present a vast
amount of data in an easy to follow format, and I think are for the
most part correct, although I have spotted a few errors. In the case
of Katherine (Dale) Carter, I have to respectfully disagree. I think
it's time to put this one to rest.
Jeff Chipman