Discussion:
Anne Constance Henriette Countess van Bylandt
Add Reply
Leo
2012-10-21 11:21:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
That Maria van Wijhe had one child with her first husband is already on Genealogics. That she had two with her second husband should have been there a long time ago as they appear in ES VI Tafel 54.

However by looking closer at sources I hope to find more. I mentioned that in "Liber Amicorum, Jhr Mr C. C. van Valkenburg" published in 1985 in The Hague three sources were mentioned for the children of Maria van Wijhe:

Nederlands Adelsboek 1940, page 427
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891 page 118
De Ridderschap van Nijmegen page 397

It was not clear which source applied to which child, after all there had been two fathers involved. One very kind person pointed out that NA 1940 page 427 applied to her son from her first husband van Borselen. The same kind person supplied the Dutch text for De Ridderschap van Nijmegen, which leaves "Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel 1891, page 118".

When I realised the two children by her second husband were recorded in ES Volume VI Tafel 54, I became curious to see what sources ES gave for that Tafel.

Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891
Nederlands Adelsboek 38 edition, 1940, pages 171 to 223
and a few more. And so it appears that all three children of Maria van Wijhe can be found in the one book Nederlands Adelsboek 1940. Her van Borselen child on page 427 and her van Bylandt children in the same book but somewhere on pages 171 to 223.

I wonder if there are any additional details in those pages 171 to 223. And also what is there to be found in the Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel.

As Christian Reinhold van Bylandt, Maria van Wijhe's youngest child died unmarried, I am trying to find out more about her daughter Anne Constance Henriette.

It is interesting to note that Maria van Wijhe died in 1754 and her second husband in 1770. And so Anne Constance Henriette was about four when her mother died and about 20 when her father died.

Might this explain why she eloped with this Frenchman? Already, thanks to Johnny Brananas and others, it is established that Anne Constance Henriette married Jean Baptiste Le Grand de Bologne married in Lille on 29 August 1778 and that she by then already had two daughters by Jean Baptiste, Justine Constance born in 1774 and Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776.

This then raises the question: two born before the marriage, but how many after? This is not so easy as they appear to have travelled around a lot because their daughter Justine Constance was born in 1774 in Normandy, Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776 on the Island of Jersey, then in 1778 she marries in Lille.

Where to go from here?

Anne Constance Henriette has quite a lot of interesting ancestors, amongst many she descends from Philippe 'the Bold', Duke of Burgundy, Emperor Elect Adolf of Nassau, King Jean II of France, William the Conqueror and so on.

With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
John Dobson
2012-10-23 02:34:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Leo,

The citation you have found for Nederland's Adelsboek 38 (1940) is
somewhat puzzling. It is true that pp. 427-28 mention the son of Maria
van Wijhe by her first husband, Willem Hendrik van Borssele (see excerpt
below). However, the page number range 171 to 223 doesn't correspond to
any natural division in the volume. It spans parts of articles on about
three families, none of them connected with the ones under discussion;
and although it coincidentally mentions the placename Wijhe several
times, I don't believe it contains any reference to Maria van Wijhe. To
the best of my knowledge the only edition of the Adelsboek that exists
consists of octavo volumes in red covers, and I don't think there is an
alternate version of it that could account for the discrepancy in the
page numbers.
As you know (but other readers may not), entries in Nederland's
Adelsboek typically attempt to minimize repetition with earlier ones,
and refer back to the most complete treatment that has appeared. In the
case of Van Bylandt, the most recent version I am able to consult is
that in vol. 72 (1981), which is quite skeletal and refers to 38 (1940),
pp. 557-609 -- coincidentally, the same volume as the one with the Van
Borssele entry previously mentioned. However, there is no mention
whatsoever of Sigismund Coenraad Roeleman van Bylandt, b. 1729. The
account of his parents, Albrecht Otto Roeleman Frederik van Bylandt and
Anna Constantia van Sevenaer, lists only three of their sons.

It may be of interest to list the sources cited in the 1981 entry,
which confirm some of what you already know:


Nederland’s Adelsboek 38 (1940)
Genealogisches Handbuch der Gräflichen Häuser A 6 (1970)
Adelslexikon 2 (1974)
Jaarboek van den Nederlandschen Adel 4 (1891).

Now for the pertinent passage from the "Van Borssele" entry in
Nederland's Adelsboek 38 (1940): 425-29. I have used the ¥ symbol to
represent the dagger, and hope it comes through:


Willem Hendrik van Borssele, heer van Geldermalsen
en Cleverskerke, geb. ‘s Gravenhage 1 Jan. 1697, burgem.
van Zaltbommel, ¥ Zaltbommel 28 Aug. 1746, tr. 1° Albertina
Clasina van Brakell, ged. Dreumel 11 Oct. 1711, ¥
Zaltbommel 30 Dec. 1733, dr. van Carel Philip en Wilda
van Wijhe; 2° Echteld 18 Oct. 1742 Maria van Wijhe,
geb. h. Tedingsweerd, Kerk Avezaath 21 Sept. 1721, ¥ h.
Geldermalsen 23 Maart 1754, dr. van Christiaan Reinoud,
heer van den Hul, Echteld, IJzendoorn, Laar, den Blankenburg
en de Pol en Henriette Philippine van Brakell, vrouwe
van Tedingsweerd; zij hertr. Geldermalsen 21 Oct. 1749
Sigismund Coenraad Roeleman des H. R. Rijksgraaf van
Bylandt, heer van Leede, Lienden en Oudeweerd.
Uit het tweede huwelijk:

Adriaan van Borssele, heer van Geldermalsen
en Cleverskerke, ged. Geldermalsen 30 Jan. 1746, burgem.
raad en schepen van Vlissingen, grenscommissaris der stad
Tholen, gedep. ter Staten-Generaal, bewindh. O. I. comp.,
¥ Brussel 3 Aug. 1806, tr. ‘s Gravenhage 25 Nov. 1781
Cornelia Jacqueline Antoinette van Schuylenburch, geb.
‘s Gravenhage 25 April 1764, ¥ Brussel 3 Feb. 1802, dr. van
Mr. Willem, heer van Bommenede en Wilhelmina Elisabeth
Bigot de Villandry.

Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
That Maria van Wijhe had one child with her first husband is already on
Genealogics. That she had two with her second husband should have been
there a long time ago as they appear in ES VI Tafel 54.

However by looking closer at sources I hope to find more. I mentioned
that in "Liber Amicorum, Jhr Mr C. C. van Valkenburg" published in 1985
in The Hague three sources were mentioned for the children of Maria van
Wijhe:

Nederlands Adelsboek 1940, page 427
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891 page 118
De Ridderschap van Nijmegen page 397

It was not clear which source applied to which child, after all there
had been two fathers involved. One very kind person pointed out that NA
1940 page 427 applied to her son from her first husband van Borselen.
The same kind person supplied the Dutch text for De Ridderschap van
Nijmegen, which leaves "Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel 1891, page
118".

When I realised the two children by her second husband were recorded in
ES Volume VI Tafel 54, I became curious to see what sources ES gave for
that Tafel.

Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891
Nederlands Adelsboek 38 edition, 1940, pages 171 to 223
and a few more. And so it appears that all three children of Maria van
Wijhe can be found in the one book Nederlands Adelsboek 1940. Her van
Borselen child on page 427 and her van Bylandt children in the same book
but somewhere on pages 171 to 223.

I wonder if there are any additional details in those pages 171 to 223.
And also what is there to be found in the Jaarboek van de Nederlandse
Adel.

As Christian Reinhold van Bylandt, Maria van Wijhe's youngest child
died unmarried, I am trying to find out more about her daughter Anne
Constance Henriette.

It is interesting to note that Maria van Wijhe died in 1754 and her
second husband in 1770. And so Anne Constance Henriette was about four
when her mother died and about 20 when her father died.

Might this explain why she eloped with this Frenchman? Already, thanks
to Johnny Brananas and others, it is established that Anne Constance
Henriette married Jean Baptiste Le Grand de Bologne married in Lille on
29 August 1778 and that she by then already had two daughters by Jean
Baptiste, Justine Constance born in 1774 and Anne Wilhelmine born in
1776.

This then raises the question: two born before the marriage, but how
many after? This is not so easy as they appear to have travelled around
a lot because their daughter Justine Constance was born in 1774 in
Normandy, Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776 on the Island of Jersey, then in
1778 she marries in Lille.

Where to go from here?

Anne Constance Henriette has quite a lot of interesting ancestors,
amongst many she descends from Philippe 'the Bold', Duke of Burgundy,
Emperor Elect Adolf of Nassau, King Jean II of France, William the
Conqueror and so on.

With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
k***@gmail.com
2017-08-04 12:23:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Leo
That Maria van Wijhe had one child with her first husband is already on Genealogics. That she had two with her second husband should have been there a long time ago as they appear in ES VI Tafel 54.
Nederlands Adelsboek 1940, page 427
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891 page 118
De Ridderschap van Nijmegen page 397
It was not clear which source applied to which child, after all there had been two fathers involved. One very kind person pointed out that NA 1940 page 427 applied to her son from her first husband van Borselen. The same kind person supplied the Dutch text for De Ridderschap van Nijmegen, which leaves "Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel 1891, page 118".
When I realised the two children by her second husband were recorded in ES Volume VI Tafel 54, I became curious to see what sources ES gave for that Tafel.
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891
Nederlands Adelsboek 38 edition, 1940, pages 171 to 223
and a few more. And so it appears that all three children of Maria van Wijhe can be found in the one book Nederlands Adelsboek 1940. Her van Borselen child on page 427 and her van Bylandt children in the same book but somewhere on pages 171 to 223.
I wonder if there are any additional details in those pages 171 to 223. And also what is there to be found in the Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel.
As Christian Reinhold van Bylandt, Maria van Wijhe's youngest child died unmarried, I am trying to find out more about her daughter Anne Constance Henriette.
It is interesting to note that Maria van Wijhe died in 1754 and her second husband in 1770. And so Anne Constance Henriette was about four when her mother died and about 20 when her father died.
Might this explain why she eloped with this Frenchman? Already, thanks to Johnny Brananas and others, it is established that Anne Constance Henriette married Jean Baptiste Le Grand de Bologne married in Lille on 29 August 1778 and that she by then already had two daughters by Jean Baptiste, Justine Constance born in 1774 and Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776.
This then raises the question: two born before the marriage, but how many after? This is not so easy as they appear to have travelled around a lot because their daughter Justine Constance was born in 1774 in Normandy, Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776 on the Island of Jersey, then in 1778 she marries in Lille.
Where to go from here?
Anne Constance Henriette has quite a lot of interesting ancestors, amongst many she descends from Philippe 'the Bold', Duke of Burgundy, Emperor Elect Adolf of Nassau, King Jean II of France, William the Conqueror and so on.
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
dag,
Akte van echtscheiding 19-6-1798 te Parijs extract te vinden in Gelders archief.
zij is dochter van Sigismund Conrad Roland Byland en Marie de Wijhe, en hij is geboren te Parijs, zoon van Jean Legrand en Marie Jeanne Habert,
Hij woont al een tijd niet meer bij haar en heeft zijn indirecte en directe plichten verzaakt.
Vanaf die tijd verkeert zij in grote armoede (brieven tot aan 1826 bewaard om geld en uitkering van haar erfdeel.
(Gelders archief) beiden onder van Randwijk te vinden.
Het is zeker dat zij buiten de door u genoemde kinderen nog een dochter heeft Elisabeth Louise Anthoinette die trouwt met Louis Boulet (Amsterdam)
Louise. In een van haar brieven 8-11-1814) prijst zij de vader van Jean Boulet aan omdat hij een goede zaak heeft en dames spullen verkoopt in Amsterdam
ook kom ik nog twee namen tegen in haar brieven (Janny (zenuwziek in 1802 en zou Anne kunnen zijn?) en dochter Cadette? en Coute??
Misschien heeft u hier iets aan?
En wellicht heeft u ook nog gegevens?
Greet Kolhorn
den Helder
Nederland
lmahler@att.net
2017-08-06 17:29:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Leo
That Maria van Wijhe had one child with her first husband is already on Genealogics. That she had two with her second husband should have been there a long time ago as they appear in ES VI Tafel 54.
Nederlands Adelsboek 1940, page 427
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891 page 118
De Ridderschap van Nijmegen page 397
It was not clear which source applied to which child, after all there had been two fathers involved. One very kind person pointed out that NA 1940 page 427 applied to her son from her first husband van Borselen. The same kind person supplied the Dutch text for De Ridderschap van Nijmegen, which leaves "Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel 1891, page 118".
When I realised the two children by her second husband were recorded in ES Volume VI Tafel 54, I became curious to see what sources ES gave for that Tafel.
Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel, 1891
Nederlands Adelsboek 38 edition, 1940, pages 171 to 223
and a few more. And so it appears that all three children of Maria van Wijhe can be found in the one book Nederlands Adelsboek 1940. Her van Borselen child on page 427 and her van Bylandt children in the same book but somewhere on pages 171 to 223.
I wonder if there are any additional details in those pages 171 to 223. And also what is there to be found in the Jaarboek van de Nederlandse Adel.
As Christian Reinhold van Bylandt, Maria van Wijhe's youngest child died unmarried, I am trying to find out more about her daughter Anne Constance Henriette.
It is interesting to note that Maria van Wijhe died in 1754 and her second husband in 1770. And so Anne Constance Henriette was about four when her mother died and about 20 when her father died.
Might this explain why she eloped with this Frenchman? Already, thanks to Johnny Brananas and others, it is established that Anne Constance Henriette married Jean Baptiste Le Grand de Bologne married in Lille on 29 August 1778 and that she by then already had two daughters by Jean Baptiste, Justine Constance born in 1774 and Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776.
This then raises the question: two born before the marriage, but how many after? This is not so easy as they appear to have travelled around a lot because their daughter Justine Constance was born in 1774 in Normandy, Anne Wilhelmine born in 1776 on the Island of Jersey, then in 1778 she marries in Lille.
Where to go from here?
Anne Constance Henriette has quite a lot of interesting ancestors, amongst many she descends from Philippe 'the Bold', Duke of Burgundy, Emperor Elect Adolf of Nassau, King Jean II of France, William the Conqueror and so on.
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
dag,
Akte van echtscheiding 19-6-1798 te Parijs extract te vinden in Gelders archief.
zij is dochter van Sigismund Conrad Roland Byland en Marie de Wijhe, en hij is geboren te Parijs, zoon van Jean Legrand en Marie Jeanne Habert,
Hij woont al een tijd niet meer bij haar en heeft zijn indirecte en directe plichten verzaakt.
Vanaf die tijd verkeert zij in grote armoede (brieven tot aan 1826 bewaard om geld en uitkering van haar erfdeel.
(Gelders archief) beiden onder van Randwijk te vinden.
Het is zeker dat zij buiten de door u genoemde kinderen nog een dochter heeft Elisabeth Louise Anthoinette die trouwt met Louis Boulet (Amsterdam)
Louise. In een van haar brieven 8-11-1814) prijst zij de vader van Jean Boulet aan omdat hij een goede zaak heeft en dames spullen verkoopt in Amsterdam
ook kom ik nog twee namen tegen in haar brieven (Janny (zenuwziek in 1802 en zou Anne kunnen zijn?) en dochter Cadette? en Coute??
Misschien heeft u hier iets aan?
En wellicht heeft u ook nog gegevens?
Greet Kolhorn
den Helder
Nederland
This subject was discussed a few years ago:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/van$20bylandt%7Csort:relevance/soc.genealogy.medieval/r5GwRyFN5b8/khQOzjRI9ZwJ

Leslie

Loading...